Everyone with WILWOODS happy??
07-15-2005, 10:15 AM
#22
Years? Technically correct, I guess.
[QUOTE=J
I'm just teasing...shoot me a PM and let me know what your specific concerns are about our systems. I'm very curious about how our products could possibly be viewed as hype. Cars with our brakes have been kicking butt for years in pro racing.
[/QUOTE]
I have never owned Wilwoods or Stoptechs, and I don't have any afflilation or experience (even second hand) with either, but this Stoptech quote about kicking butt for years is a bit much. Stoptech was started in March of 1999, which technically is years, but in automotive racing history and experience is nothing. Wilwood has been around since 1977, and if nothing else, at least they have been on the racing scene 22 years longer than Stoptech. If anyone suffers from a disinformation campaign it is Wilwood.
Again, I have never used either product, and do not have any second hand information to provide.
Here is something interesting from the latest Speed Magazine in the Track Test 350Z shootout:
Quote
BRAKING
The 350Zs equipped with factory brakes achieved the shortest 80-to-zero stopping distances.
Endquote
So for those of us that drive only on the street, it appears that the stock brake system or the Brembo factory setup are the best at stopping, which is what the brakes are for. Correct me if I am wrong.
I'm just teasing...shoot me a PM and let me know what your specific concerns are about our systems. I'm very curious about how our products could possibly be viewed as hype. Cars with our brakes have been kicking butt for years in pro racing.
[/QUOTE]I have never owned Wilwoods or Stoptechs, and I don't have any afflilation or experience (even second hand) with either, but this Stoptech quote about kicking butt for years is a bit much. Stoptech was started in March of 1999, which technically is years, but in automotive racing history and experience is nothing. Wilwood has been around since 1977, and if nothing else, at least they have been on the racing scene 22 years longer than Stoptech. If anyone suffers from a disinformation campaign it is Wilwood.
Again, I have never used either product, and do not have any second hand information to provide.
Here is something interesting from the latest Speed Magazine in the Track Test 350Z shootout:
Quote
BRAKING
The 350Zs equipped with factory brakes achieved the shortest 80-to-zero stopping distances.
Endquote
So for those of us that drive only on the street, it appears that the stock brake system or the Brembo factory setup are the best at stopping, which is what the brakes are for. Correct me if I am wrong.
07-15-2005, 11:28 AM
#23
Stopping distance is only one measure of braking. Also keep in mind, there are other factors, such as resistance to fade and warpage, inital bite, ease of modulation, etc. You will find that many of the BBK's offer equal or only marginally better stopping distances, but large improvements in fade and heat resistance, consistency and feel.
As I mentioned in my earlier comments, brake pad choice is probably the most critical factor in determining what people percieve as a "powerful" braking system.
Also not, that IMHO, the vast majority of people rarely use these BBK's on the track, and buy them primarly for the bling factor, and the peace of mind knowning they have larger and more powerful brakes all around. They are also great at filling up these 19 and 20 inch wheels that people are so fond of.
At the track, I have see lots of people racing with StopTech, AP, and Wilwood.
As I mentioned in my earlier comments, brake pad choice is probably the most critical factor in determining what people percieve as a "powerful" braking system.
Also not, that IMHO, the vast majority of people rarely use these BBK's on the track, and buy them primarly for the bling factor, and the peace of mind knowning they have larger and more powerful brakes all around. They are also great at filling up these 19 and 20 inch wheels that people are so fond of.
At the track, I have see lots of people racing with StopTech, AP, and Wilwood.
07-15-2005, 11:35 AM
#25
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J RITT I've been following the board for quite some time now, there is no need to lecture me on missinformation. I can come up with my own opinion about my brake needs and stoptech... the driving Instructor, or if you prefer, people in the "know" in general will then confirm or dismiss my beliefs. "all-hype" doesn't mean it's worth nothing... I'd like to see a brake challenge on stock 350z, not on world touring challenge cars, 10-15 laps anywhere. "all-hype" would take a whole new meaning.
then there is the fact I just hate companies who constantly need to put down the competition to look half-decent. Major turn-off.
I personally wouldn't put stoptech on my cars, my brake needs have been taken care off.
then there is the fact I just hate companies who constantly need to put down the competition to look half-decent. Major turn-off.
I personally wouldn't put stoptech on my cars, my brake needs have been taken care off.
Last edited by Nano; 07-15-2005 at 11:52 AM.
07-15-2005, 01:00 PM
#26
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Nano,
Believe what you want from the sources you deal with. I made an offer to talk to you and discuss these issues in private if you like. If you don't want to do so, that's fine. I'm not sure if you're in SoCal, but If you want to see our brakes perform in person, I'd be happy to take you out in my own personal car on the track. I'm sure there are plenty of our customers in your neck of the woods that would offer you the same. I may even be able to find you one.
Every once in a while this "we need a brake challenge" issue arises on the boards. The problem is, everybody wants to prove something, but nobody ever wants to step up to the plate and organize it. Feel free to (or have your brake supplier) set up a controlled, scientific test. Provide us with documentation of the procedures, rent a track, provide radar gun or gps equipment, find cars, participants, and mechanics to wrench on the cars. Then find the magazine guys to document it all. Then set up the evaluation criteria, and what exactly you're looking to find out in this test. Then tell us when and where and I'll personally bring one of our standard Z kits, hand them to you, and let you go nuts on them. We have nothing to hide...nor do we have anything to prove. If you need some guidance on how to set up a test, here's how we do our standard testing: http://zeckhausen.com/Testing_Brakes.htm
I think you're going to find that this is an extremely time consuming, complicated, and expensive process, but we'd definitely be happy to participate if you pull it together.
Gringott,
Yes Wilwood has been around a long time...longer than StopTech...no arguments here. And yes, they've won plenty of races. I think we had our first pro race win in '02, and it's now 2005. Auberlen won the Championship with our kit last year in Touring, and we've won a bunch of races this year. That's years. I didn't say many years!
As Sharif said, there's more to it than stopping distances. Tires are the primary manner in which you would decrease stopping distances. Everything is limited by the adhesion of the tires. Therefore, any magazine stopping distances will be all over the board unless they are all running the same tires. Also, pad choice plays a role, whether or not the said pads were hot or cold, etc. There are a bunch of factors involved. Internally we say that we're not selling stopping distances. We're selling heat capacity, modulation, response, proper balance, ease of swapping friction, value, etc...all of which are relevant on the track AND street. Also as Sharif says, some people just want bling!
As a side note, if you read the last page sidebar in the SPEED Magazine article about Mike Cronin Jr's personal 350Z, he set a faster lap time than any of the cars in the shootout...with only minor mods. He is running our brakes on that car. He also had GAC Hoosiers on that car!
Finally, if you look at any of my posts over the years, you'll see that I ALWAYS recommend a brake kit as a last resort (unless it's just for bling). First you try race pads, fluid, and ducting. If you need more heat capacity, then you get a BBK. The reality is that you will see other benefits such as better pedal feel, less pedal travel, less time to do work, etc. To some people these are important enough to justify a BBK, to others they're not.
Believe what you want from the sources you deal with. I made an offer to talk to you and discuss these issues in private if you like. If you don't want to do so, that's fine. I'm not sure if you're in SoCal, but If you want to see our brakes perform in person, I'd be happy to take you out in my own personal car on the track. I'm sure there are plenty of our customers in your neck of the woods that would offer you the same. I may even be able to find you one.
Every once in a while this "we need a brake challenge" issue arises on the boards. The problem is, everybody wants to prove something, but nobody ever wants to step up to the plate and organize it. Feel free to (or have your brake supplier) set up a controlled, scientific test. Provide us with documentation of the procedures, rent a track, provide radar gun or gps equipment, find cars, participants, and mechanics to wrench on the cars. Then find the magazine guys to document it all. Then set up the evaluation criteria, and what exactly you're looking to find out in this test. Then tell us when and where and I'll personally bring one of our standard Z kits, hand them to you, and let you go nuts on them. We have nothing to hide...nor do we have anything to prove. If you need some guidance on how to set up a test, here's how we do our standard testing: http://zeckhausen.com/Testing_Brakes.htm
I think you're going to find that this is an extremely time consuming, complicated, and expensive process, but we'd definitely be happy to participate if you pull it together.
Gringott,
Yes Wilwood has been around a long time...longer than StopTech...no arguments here. And yes, they've won plenty of races. I think we had our first pro race win in '02, and it's now 2005. Auberlen won the Championship with our kit last year in Touring, and we've won a bunch of races this year. That's years. I didn't say many years!
As Sharif said, there's more to it than stopping distances. Tires are the primary manner in which you would decrease stopping distances. Everything is limited by the adhesion of the tires. Therefore, any magazine stopping distances will be all over the board unless they are all running the same tires. Also, pad choice plays a role, whether or not the said pads were hot or cold, etc. There are a bunch of factors involved. Internally we say that we're not selling stopping distances. We're selling heat capacity, modulation, response, proper balance, ease of swapping friction, value, etc...all of which are relevant on the track AND street. Also as Sharif says, some people just want bling!
As a side note, if you read the last page sidebar in the SPEED Magazine article about Mike Cronin Jr's personal 350Z, he set a faster lap time than any of the cars in the shootout...with only minor mods. He is running our brakes on that car. He also had GAC Hoosiers on that car!
Finally, if you look at any of my posts over the years, you'll see that I ALWAYS recommend a brake kit as a last resort (unless it's just for bling). First you try race pads, fluid, and ducting. If you need more heat capacity, then you get a BBK. The reality is that you will see other benefits such as better pedal feel, less pedal travel, less time to do work, etc. To some people these are important enough to justify a BBK, to others they're not.
07-15-2005, 01:39 PM
#27
J Ritt:
Thank you. I agree totally with what you are saying. I don't track my car, or race in any way. I drive about 80 miles a day, year round, city, rural, suburban, and highway. Every day. My personal needs are met with the OEM performance brakes, don't really even need stock Brembros. If I got a kit, of course it would have to perform at least as well as my stock brakes, using the tires I use with the stock brakes. Fade is not an issue, neither is heat, I have never had a problem with the OEM setup. So other than bling, I would have to see at least the same, hopefully better, performance. Yet that old test you have on your site really doesn't show any real gain until the brakes are really, really hot, extreme conditions I will never encounter. So in my situation, I would really only consider performance for my conditions, and price. That is why I see Wilwood as the answer if I did get a BBK.
And, as a non-Wilwood owner, I am sorry for highjacking this thread from the person who wants to hear from owners. I will not post anymore here.
Thank you. I agree totally with what you are saying. I don't track my car, or race in any way. I drive about 80 miles a day, year round, city, rural, suburban, and highway. Every day. My personal needs are met with the OEM performance brakes, don't really even need stock Brembros. If I got a kit, of course it would have to perform at least as well as my stock brakes, using the tires I use with the stock brakes. Fade is not an issue, neither is heat, I have never had a problem with the OEM setup. So other than bling, I would have to see at least the same, hopefully better, performance. Yet that old test you have on your site really doesn't show any real gain until the brakes are really, really hot, extreme conditions I will never encounter. So in my situation, I would really only consider performance for my conditions, and price. That is why I see Wilwood as the answer if I did get a BBK.
And, as a non-Wilwood owner, I am sorry for highjacking this thread from the person who wants to hear from owners. I will not post anymore here.
07-15-2005, 04:01 PM
#28
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Originally Posted by gringott
Here is something interesting from the latest Speed Magazine in the Track Test 350Z shootout:
Quote
BRAKING
The 350Zs equipped with factory brakes achieved the shortest 80-to-zero stopping distances.
Endquote
So for those of us that drive only on the street, it appears that the stock brake system or the Brembo factory setup are the best at stopping, which is what the brakes are for. Correct me if I am wrong.
Quote
BRAKING
The 350Zs equipped with factory brakes achieved the shortest 80-to-zero stopping distances.
Endquote
So for those of us that drive only on the street, it appears that the stock brake system or the Brembo factory setup are the best at stopping, which is what the brakes are for. Correct me if I am wrong.
Putting on wheels of larger diameter makes a big difference in stopping power and distance. When I went from 18s to 19s I noticed an increase in effort and stopping distance.
Considering almost everyone with BBKs has aftermarket wheels of 19 inch diameter or more, this should be taken into consideration when comparing stopping distances between a stock car and a modified one.
Also the biggest advantage of BBKs IMO is their resistance to fade. You take the stock Z out for a spirited track session and you will warp your rotors and fade will be annoying as well.
I have warped quite a few sets of rotors in just spirited street driving, so I am very happy to have my Brembos.
07-20-2005, 04:27 PM
#29
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Shariff and Nano. Hope all is well with both of you.just wanted to chime in and add a few other things to the mix. Wilwood themselves do not assemble any kits for the Z or G35. Anything ou find available in the aftermarket are put together by shops like us, Brake Zone. Some take the time and do the calculations and use the right parts in the right situations. Some do not. This give a uncertain feel to Wilwood because many kits that are available have no testing or engineering behind them.
Our 14" and 13" kits have been tested regularly on the track and on the street. We have continued to update the kit as well to even offer a more complete package as well. All of our kits include everything you need for a true bolt on affair without the need of proportioning valves or another device to maintain proper balance. We also use the newest generation calipers available from Wilwood which also provide the strongest and most rigid calipers they have made to date. The rotors are also of a new design which I believe to be one of the most effecient vane designs available today.
The only thing I can say is that I like JRitt always push the customer into what they need for their specific application. Not everyone is looking for the same thing out of a brake kit. Sadly to say, most kits sold dont see any track time. Regardless, our main focus when designing a kit and only priority is that it performs. Our philosphy has always been form follows function. If our kits look pretty, thats just icing on the cake.
If anyone else has any specific questions or concerns regarding the 13.1" or 14" kits that we produce, I ll gladly help any way I can.
07-21-2005, 07:25 AM
#31
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Originally Posted by Nano
Honestly quote from my driving instructor who has been running about every single brakes from the last 20 years "stoptechs are all about hype"... I won't go into details. But after experience, I wouldn't put stoptechs if they where given to me free.
The question is fairly simple, and asks people who OWN wilwood kits if they are happy. Do you have wilwood brakes? Why do you fee the urge to biitch about them in every single brake thread???
I'd love to see a brake battle one day, I'm pretty sure you'd be surprised.
The question is fairly simple, and asks people who OWN wilwood kits if they are happy. Do you have wilwood brakes? Why do you fee the urge to biitch about them in every single brake thread???
I'd love to see a brake battle one day, I'm pretty sure you'd be surprised.
07-21-2005, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by DocofMind
Shariff and Nano. Hope all is well with both of you.First, I bought these brakes from one of the most admirable sellers on the board, honest gentlemen and trully 100% dedicated to customer satisfaction... How I wish I would have dealt with some crook that only cares about profit instead.
Second, everyone is now staring at my car, I get thumbs up everywhere and people keep asking me questions...there is no peace, it's a constant battle, they look way too good.
Third, the feel of these brake is too much, I can feel the slightest change in pressure, from initial bite to full lock. Brake fade is now utterly impossible! Worst thing is the car feels completely stock on the street. Even the handbrake works flawlessly, what a shame...
Fourth, 200$ something for 14" 17lbs aero rotors and 85$ per axle for streetable track pads.. way too cheap! Man I have all this cash that I don't know what to do with, I wish rotors would be like 600$ each and pads 300$ per set. This sucks totally sucks...
lots of track events soon
, I'm going to beat the **** out of these, they deserve it 
Last edited by Nano; 07-21-2005 at 12:12 PM.
Nice pics, BTW. 
07-25-2005, 02:39 AM
#35
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Maybe somebody can help. I know my rotors are not warped and I dont need pads. SO what is making my car shake while braking at hi speeds? Light braking its ok just does it while braking hard.
Also can any brake shop work on wilwoods?
Also can any brake shop work on wilwoods?
07-25-2005, 07:46 AM
#36
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Originally Posted by PumpedVA
Also can any brake shop work on wilwoods?
Also, everyone knows wilwood! You can get wilwood stuff EVERYWHERE, every race shop can get wilwood brakes and components. It's the most(or close) widely used brakesystem company in North-America.
As for your vibration, it might be uneven pad deposit on rotor.
Last edited by Nano; 07-25-2005 at 07:48 AM.
07-31-2006, 06:07 PM
#38
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I still Love Mine
I have three years and 15 track days per year. Ihave 6 pot fronts in combination with air ducts. This really helps those 102 deg days. 110 to 45 in from the 300 ft markers.
I got my kit from 350zbrakes.com. I still get rotors and pads from Russel. He provids great support.
I got my kit from 350zbrakes.com. I still get rotors and pads from Russel. He provids great support.