Question on Installing Koni's
08-16-2006, 11:01 AM
#22
Originally Posted by Kolia
The suspension is OEM except for the Dampers.
Good to know I can updgrade them !
Good to know I can updgrade them !
08-18-2006, 06:11 AM
#23
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Originally Posted by Kolia
Well worth the upgrade from a Tokico set IMO.
Last edited by Nano; 08-18-2006 at 06:14 AM.
08-18-2006, 07:24 AM
#24
Originally Posted by Nano
The tokico are double adjustable, and work just as well on the stock springs, the Koni are worth the upgrade only if you plan on running much stiffer springs, or want them customized. Otherwise I don't understand why it would be worth an upgrade to a single adjustable shock...
The price difference between the two brand is ~200$ Substract 30$ for the Tokico adjuster extensions and the trouble of drilling the rear upper strut mount and interior garnish to install them, the price advantage quickly melts.
Granted, most people will adjust the dampers once and forget about it. So the adjuster’s location argument is debatable.
08-18-2006, 08:57 AM
#25
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The koni are only adjustable in rebound, that's why they are SA. Compression is always the same ---> single adjustable
the Tokico are adjustable in compression and rebound, even though they are adjusted simultaneously ---> double adjustable
The extensions make if FAR more easy to adjust the rear than the Koni ****, worth the 30$.
the Tokico are adjustable in compression and rebound, even though they are adjusted simultaneously ---> double adjustable
The extensions make if FAR more easy to adjust the rear than the Koni ****, worth the 30$.
08-18-2006, 09:21 AM
#26
Originally Posted by Nano
The koni are only adjustable in rebound, that's why they are SA. Compression is always the same ---> single adjustable
No, both compression AND rebound characteristics are adjusted, at the same time and with a predetermined ratio, with a turn of the ****.
SA denomination refers to having ONE **** that changes both compression and rebound at the same time.
DA will refer to a dampers with TWO *****. One **** for compression and one other **** for rebound.
Race dampers will have three or four adjustments possible, playing with low and high speed behavior of compression and rebound characteristics. Speed here is the speed of the suspension movement (hitting a bump = fast, transfering weight in a turn=slow)
08-18-2006, 09:42 AM
#27
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Originally Posted by Kolia
We're did you get that? Lol
http://e30m3performance.com/tech_art...shock_dyno.htm
first result on google
quote: "For those not familiar with the Koni SA's, they are adjustable only for rebound. The compression damping is fixed (but can be altered by rebuilding the shock)."
where did you get they are adjustable for compression? Can't find anything anywhere, maybe you have magic Konis
08-18-2006, 10:11 AM
#28
Have you tried the Koni web site?
That could be a good start. They have made a nice little graph with compression and rebound curves with various adjustment...
Plus, I can adjust the amount of dive the car take for a given braking force...
Again, maybe the friend of the cousins of the guy how once had a set of Koni's knows better...
That could be a good start. They have made a nice little graph with compression and rebound curves with various adjustment...
Plus, I can adjust the amount of dive the car take for a given braking force...
Again, maybe the friend of the cousins of the guy how once had a set of Koni's knows better...
08-18-2006, 10:31 AM
#29
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Originally Posted by Kolia
Have you tried the Koni web site?
anyway, I still fail to understand why they would be an upgrade on stock springs. For the price of a set of Konis, I got a set of D-specs, tokico extensions, tokico springs and SPC camber arms. Konis would be an upgrade if you get them customized with proper springs..
Again, maybe the friend of the cousins of the guy how once had a set of Koni's knows better...
Last edited by Nano; 08-18-2006 at 10:48 AM.
08-18-2006, 10:53 AM
#32
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Originally Posted by Kolia
'cuz I say so if course ! 
The 8242 series Koni are DA. That's the next column to the right of the 8241 for the 350Z....
The 8242 series Koni are DA. That's the next column to the right of the 8241 for the 350Z....
I do believe the Konis are better shocks, but you have to use them to their full potential (custom valving + proper springs), otherwise for "milder" applications(as in 20min HPDEs on street tires), the tokico are a better choice imho.
08-18-2006, 06:05 PM
#33
Wait a minute fellows.
Koni sports for the Z33 are not double adjustable. They will only adjust rebound, which is the single adjustable as in one dampning element, that being rebound. That rebound control features digressive valving that varies control as piston speeds change, when you adjust rebound it only effect's one element of rebound control, just can't remember if what see said, it's either high or low speed, sorry can't exactly remember that specific detail. The Koni yellow's do not have the rebound control range that Koni want's you to believe. I have run them with 448lbs spring rates and it takes pretty much all the rebound range they have to tie things up. I was content with a 1/4 turn of control left. T2 springs should really only be considered with the TcKline DA's which have a whole lot more range, not to mention the ability to adjust compression and rebound independently.
Their is a very specific reason for rebound only control that is not related to doing what I did and make coilovers out of the fronts where your running stiffer springs. It's because your running a setup for scca compitition and your using very high sway bar settings. You need a lot of rebound control to keep counter the effects the bars will do when you encounter not so smooth pavement. I'm sure that's not the only reason, but it's a issue given that many do run very high front bar strengths.
Koni sports for the Z33 are not double adjustable. They will only adjust rebound, which is the single adjustable as in one dampning element, that being rebound. That rebound control features digressive valving that varies control as piston speeds change, when you adjust rebound it only effect's one element of rebound control, just can't remember if what see said, it's either high or low speed, sorry can't exactly remember that specific detail. The Koni yellow's do not have the rebound control range that Koni want's you to believe. I have run them with 448lbs spring rates and it takes pretty much all the rebound range they have to tie things up. I was content with a 1/4 turn of control left. T2 springs should really only be considered with the TcKline DA's which have a whole lot more range, not to mention the ability to adjust compression and rebound independently.
Their is a very specific reason for rebound only control that is not related to doing what I did and make coilovers out of the fronts where your running stiffer springs. It's because your running a setup for scca compitition and your using very high sway bar settings. You need a lot of rebound control to keep counter the effects the bars will do when you encounter not so smooth pavement. I'm sure that's not the only reason, but it's a issue given that many do run very high front bar strengths.
08-19-2006, 04:21 AM
#34
Originally Posted by Gsedan35
Their is a very specific reason for rebound only control that is not related to doing what I did and make coilovers out of the fronts where your running stiffer springs. It's because your running a setup for scca compitition and your using very high sway bar settings. You need a lot of rebound control to keep counter the effects the bars will do when you encounter not so smooth pavement. I'm sure that's not the only reason, but it's a issue given that many do run very high front bar strengths.
That's good info Gsedan. I run OEM bars and I'm not planning on going any bigger. It's good to know that thought.
Thanks.
08-28-2006, 01:40 PM
#35
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Originally Posted by Kolia
They worked great!
I’ve adjusted them at +2 rear and half a turn front. Didn’t touch them all week-end. I’m also driving them like that on the street.
The chassis was kept in check all the time, with no nasty surprises ever (look up the video in the Autocross/Road forum). They complement very well the RA1, with limited understeer. I’m very happy with them and glad I could keep my headstrong belief in keeping the OEM sway bars.
I love the car’s balance. Very easy to drive.
As for the adjustment, the fronts are adjusted from the top with the supplied ****. No clearance issue with the OEM strut tower bar.
The rear are adjusted using an allen key to rotate a disc at the top of the damper body. Just jack the rear enough to get your arm between tire and fender and you can reach the adjuster.
That’s it. Well worth the upgrade from a Tokico set IMO.
I’ve adjusted them at +2 rear and half a turn front. Didn’t touch them all week-end. I’m also driving them like that on the street.
The chassis was kept in check all the time, with no nasty surprises ever (look up the video in the Autocross/Road forum). They complement very well the RA1, with limited understeer. I’m very happy with them and glad I could keep my headstrong belief in keeping the OEM sway bars.
I love the car’s balance. Very easy to drive.
As for the adjustment, the fronts are adjusted from the top with the supplied ****. No clearance issue with the OEM strut tower bar.
The rear are adjusted using an allen key to rotate a disc at the top of the damper body. Just jack the rear enough to get your arm between tire and fender and you can reach the adjuster.
That’s it. Well worth the upgrade from a Tokico set IMO.
08-28-2006, 02:46 PM
#36
From the diagrams in the documentation I got with the dampers, the fronts will go one full turn (360 degres) max and the rears will go to +8 (about 8 quarter turns).
I haven't played with the settings much because I'm still getting used to the car. My main concern was to fix the jumpiness of the OEM suspension when running the RA1 tires, which it did. The car is also very predictable and I don't feel the need to change the transient behaviors right now. I still have plenty to work on as it is!
At zero everywhere, the dampers are stiffer than the OEM.
I haven't played with the settings much because I'm still getting used to the car. My main concern was to fix the jumpiness of the OEM suspension when running the RA1 tires, which it did. The car is also very predictable and I don't feel the need to change the transient behaviors right now. I still have plenty to work on as it is!
At zero everywhere, the dampers are stiffer than the OEM.
08-28-2006, 04:32 PM
#37
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Good to see another positive review of the koni's. Yes the yellows are single adjustable for low speed rebound only. I'm convinced that they'll out handle most of the Japanese coilover kits on the market. They're one of the best know secrets.
shhh don't tell anyone.
shhh don't tell anyone.
08-28-2006, 05:47 PM
#38
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Don't you love those diagrams !! I spent a lot of time looking at them to try to understand what they meant. For the fronts, the yellow page shows how to adjust when you have the top ****. What confused me is that on the other side, the diagrams indicate how to adjust when the shock model does not have a **** (Models that can only be adjusted off the car). Anyway, what I got from that was:
+=180deg is a typicall street setting
++=360deg is a "sport" setting.
It does not give a max on that side but on the instruction for when you adjust using a vise (off the car) it shows 720deg as the max.
I rotated the **** from 0 to 2.5 turns or 900deg.
The rear does say 8 quarter turns max but I have not measured the range.
+=180deg is a typicall street setting
++=360deg is a "sport" setting.
It does not give a max on that side but on the instruction for when you adjust using a vise (off the car) it shows 720deg as the max.
I rotated the **** from 0 to 2.5 turns or 900deg.
The rear does say 8 quarter turns max but I have not measured the range.
10-08-2006, 09:21 AM
#40
Question: I am installing my koni's with a spring that is wound up tighter (smaller coil OD). Now, I can't reuse my dust boots. What do I do, cut it from the rest of the top assembly?
I image that would greatly shorten the life of the shock, an otherwise shock with a lifetime warranty, but I don't want to swap shocks every year...
TIA for your enlightenment.
I image that would greatly shorten the life of the shock, an otherwise shock with a lifetime warranty, but I don't want to swap shocks every year...
TIA for your enlightenment.
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