Changes in handling with new wheels, tires & springs
#1
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Thread Starter
Changes in handling with new wheels, tires & springs
2008 Touring Roadster, recently went from stock wheels/tires/springs to the following:
18x9.5/10.5, 255/40/18-275/40/18 & Eibach lowering springs (stock suspensions)
I noticed significant changes in handling:
- high speed cruising at freeways is more stable, easier to center, less noise (probably due to the tires).
- But on the twisty roads, it feels sloppier. More understeers. It made me drive slower than before, just because I couldn't really feel the car that well anymore.
I'm just an average driver, not a racer or anything, but since I drive these roads a lot, I could feel the difference right away.
Is this expected with my new setup?
What can be done to improve this, at least to put it back to stock feeling?
I love the new look and all, but the loss of handling worries me a bit..
Thanks in advance!
18x9.5/10.5, 255/40/18-275/40/18 & Eibach lowering springs (stock suspensions)
I noticed significant changes in handling:
- high speed cruising at freeways is more stable, easier to center, less noise (probably due to the tires).
- But on the twisty roads, it feels sloppier. More understeers. It made me drive slower than before, just because I couldn't really feel the car that well anymore.
I'm just an average driver, not a racer or anything, but since I drive these roads a lot, I could feel the difference right away.
Is this expected with my new setup?
What can be done to improve this, at least to put it back to stock feeling?
I love the new look and all, but the loss of handling worries me a bit..
Thanks in advance!
#2
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2008 Touring Roadster, recently went from stock wheels/tires/springs to the following:
18x9.5/10.5, 255/40/18-275/40/18 & Eibach lowering springs (stock suspensions)
I noticed significant changes in handling:
- high speed cruising at freeways is more stable, easier to center, less noise (probably due to the tires).
- But on the twisty roads, it feels sloppier. More understeers. It made me drive slower than before, just because I couldn't really feel the car that well anymore.
I'm just an average driver, not a racer or anything, but since I drive these roads a lot, I could feel the difference right away.
Is this expected with my new setup?
What can be done to improve this, at least to put it back to stock feeling?
I love the new look and all, but the loss of handling worries me a bit..
Thanks in advance!
18x9.5/10.5, 255/40/18-275/40/18 & Eibach lowering springs (stock suspensions)
I noticed significant changes in handling:
- high speed cruising at freeways is more stable, easier to center, less noise (probably due to the tires).
- But on the twisty roads, it feels sloppier. More understeers. It made me drive slower than before, just because I couldn't really feel the car that well anymore.
I'm just an average driver, not a racer or anything, but since I drive these roads a lot, I could feel the difference right away.
Is this expected with my new setup?
What can be done to improve this, at least to put it back to stock feeling?
I love the new look and all, but the loss of handling worries me a bit..
Thanks in advance!
And what specific tires did you put on? Construction varies by tire type and brand so that could also contribute to the uneasy feeling.
With all the new hardware, did you get the car aligned? Or at least have it checked?
Eibach ProKit springs lower the car "only" 15-19mm and with that amount of lowering, alignment might be OK but should be checked anyways. I run ProKits and did have to re-align - but my reason for doing so was to bring the tires back closer to the middle of the stock alignment range to give them a chance to live a little.
Note: adding adjustable alignment hardware (front UCA and/or rear toe and camber hardware) will be necessary to correct camber & caster up front and camber & toe at the rear.
Did you put the Eibachs on stock shocks? If so, that could also upset the balance of the car, possibly adding too much roll stiffness to the front (while creating insufficient damping to the rear).
Worst case scenario is to add new shocks and/or adjustable sway bars to tune the suspension to add a bit more roll stiffness.
But start with the tire pressure and see what that does.
Last edited by MicVelo; 05-23-2016 at 11:25 AM.
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#6
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Wider wheels and tires do numb up the steering feel from stock for daily grocery getting. It feels less nimble to me. I have multiple sets of wheels and tires (all different setups), every time I switch it up which is often, I can feel a difference. If the handling feels sloppy, you may want to get new performance shocks to complement the springs.
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bigpow (05-23-2016)
#7
Registered User
Thread Starter
I'm taking notes...
Will try them out and report back.
I'll check tire pressure and try 36 F and 34 R.
Also, scheduled for alignment check in 2 weeks.
I'm a bit concerned that I might have to pay again for the labor to transfer the Eibach springs on new shocks. I did bottom out twice already...
Much appreciated!
Will try them out and report back.
I'll check tire pressure and try 36 F and 34 R.
Also, scheduled for alignment check in 2 weeks.
I'm a bit concerned that I might have to pay again for the labor to transfer the Eibach springs on new shocks. I did bottom out twice already...
Much appreciated!
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#8
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I'm taking notes...
Will try them out and report back.
I'll check tire pressure and try 36 F and 34 R.
Also, scheduled for alignment check in 2 weeks.
I'm a bit concerned that I might have to pay again for the labor to transfer the Eibach springs on new shocks. I did bottom out twice already...
Much appreciated!
Will try them out and report back.
I'll check tire pressure and try 36 F and 34 R.
Also, scheduled for alignment check in 2 weeks.
I'm a bit concerned that I might have to pay again for the labor to transfer the Eibach springs on new shocks. I did bottom out twice already...
Much appreciated!
#9
New Member
Hi bigpow… I went from stock springs, shocks, sway bars, and 18x8” wheels with square tire widths (245/40 front and 245/45 rear) to aftermarket spring and shocks (Tein springs and Bilstein shocks), larger Nismo sway bars, and 245/40 front and 275/40 rear tires.
I did experience some disappointment the first time I ran this setup for the same reason you mention. It felt “sloppy,” especially when comparing to the square width setup I had been running before the conversion.
I did what Mic mentions. I checked the tire pressures. The fronts were less than they should be and less than the rears. I increased the fronts to 36-37 psi and dropped the rears to < 35, and this helped a little.
Mic also mentions that tire selection can have a noticeable effect upon handling. I agree, and here is why. I was previously running Continental Extreme Contact DWS in a square width setup (245/40-18” F and 245/45-18” R). The handling with this was very good.
After installing new springs, shocks, sway bars and wheels, I went with Continental Extreme Contact DWS (245/40-18” F and 275/40-18” R). The handling was a little disappointing. It was a little better, but not what I hoped for, and it actually felt a little sloppy in certain situations.
I believe the disappointment in handling is based in sidewall rigidity. All-season tires (Continental Extreme Contact DWS being an example) have softer sidewalls than summer performance tires. That is one reason the AS tires provide a more comfortable and more quiet ride. The problem with AS tires is they are more “wiggly.” So if you mount more narrow fronts (my case is extreme with a 30 mm difference front to rear), the rears overpower the “too-flexible” fronts, and you experience wiggling and under-steer.
For a staggered setup (20 to 30 mm difference front to rear), I’m going to mount summer performance tires with a stiff sidewall. I’m guessing but believe that will make a noticeable improvement in handling.
I did experience some disappointment the first time I ran this setup for the same reason you mention. It felt “sloppy,” especially when comparing to the square width setup I had been running before the conversion.
I did what Mic mentions. I checked the tire pressures. The fronts were less than they should be and less than the rears. I increased the fronts to 36-37 psi and dropped the rears to < 35, and this helped a little.
Mic also mentions that tire selection can have a noticeable effect upon handling. I agree, and here is why. I was previously running Continental Extreme Contact DWS in a square width setup (245/40-18” F and 245/45-18” R). The handling with this was very good.
After installing new springs, shocks, sway bars and wheels, I went with Continental Extreme Contact DWS (245/40-18” F and 275/40-18” R). The handling was a little disappointing. It was a little better, but not what I hoped for, and it actually felt a little sloppy in certain situations.
I believe the disappointment in handling is based in sidewall rigidity. All-season tires (Continental Extreme Contact DWS being an example) have softer sidewalls than summer performance tires. That is one reason the AS tires provide a more comfortable and more quiet ride. The problem with AS tires is they are more “wiggly.” So if you mount more narrow fronts (my case is extreme with a 30 mm difference front to rear), the rears overpower the “too-flexible” fronts, and you experience wiggling and under-steer.
For a staggered setup (20 to 30 mm difference front to rear), I’m going to mount summer performance tires with a stiff sidewall. I’m guessing but believe that will make a noticeable improvement in handling.
Last edited by Spike100; 05-24-2016 at 05:28 PM. Reason: corrected tire size in new setup
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#13
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How many miles are on the stock shocks ?
Did you get the car aligned ?
Understeer making you drive slower, do you know what understeer is?
Did you get the car aligned ?
Understeer making you drive slower, do you know what understeer is?
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bigpow (05-25-2016)
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#15
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Thread Starter
Perhaps I use the term understeer incorrectly, since I'm just a typical driver not a pro.
What I'm getting at is, I feel that the steering response is slower now compared to before.
Just made me realize, is it possible that I'm actually going faster than before?
And that's why it's making me scared now?
Too bad that I don't have 2 cars with 2 different setups to test back to back, that'd be ideal..
#16
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26k miles on stock shocks.
Perhaps I use the term understeer incorrectly, since I'm just a typical driver not a pro.
What I'm getting at is, I feel that the steering response is slower now compared to before.
Just made me realize, is it possible that I'm actually going faster than before?
And that's why it's making me scared now?
Too bad that I don't have 2 cars with 2 different setups to test back to back, that'd be ideal..
Perhaps I use the term understeer incorrectly, since I'm just a typical driver not a pro.
What I'm getting at is, I feel that the steering response is slower now compared to before.
Just made me realize, is it possible that I'm actually going faster than before?
And that's why it's making me scared now?
Too bad that I don't have 2 cars with 2 different setups to test back to back, that'd be ideal..
I feel the same way about my Bridgestone PP S-04s but have learned to just live with it. I hate trading off razor sharp response but to pick up the additional adhesion, it's one of those necessary evils sometimes.
Plus, as someone else mentioned, those tires you chose, while in the Max Perf category, do tend to be a little mushy and a tad less responsive according to surveys I've read on TR. Mitigate this a bit by running a higher pressure, maybe up around 40/38 for twisty driving.
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bigpow (06-04-2016)
#17
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Thread Starter
I went through the alignment check and it wasn't bad at all. Toes and cambers were adjusted to specs. The front camber are slightly off.
I've learned a bit more about the new characteristics of the car. I think it's a faster car, much better grip than stock.
I played around with tire pressure and it seems to help a bit.
I'm actually quite okay with it now, I guess I just got used to it.
Maybe later, I'll revisit the sway bars and shocks upgrade, but I'm gonna put to rest for now.
Thanks all.
If anything, I probably should have gotten the continental DWS tires over the Hankook. These V12 have great grip, but boy they're loud.
I've learned a bit more about the new characteristics of the car. I think it's a faster car, much better grip than stock.
I played around with tire pressure and it seems to help a bit.
I'm actually quite okay with it now, I guess I just got used to it.
Maybe later, I'll revisit the sway bars and shocks upgrade, but I'm gonna put to rest for now.
Thanks all.
If anything, I probably should have gotten the continental DWS tires over the Hankook. These V12 have great grip, but boy they're loud.
Last edited by bigpow; 06-04-2016 at 10:33 AM.
#19
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