Questions after reading Sentry's Vortech thread...
 

whats up guys. I'm from g35driver.com, and read that my350z is better in regards to FI. I've read, and read, and READ lots of thread when I was deciding about which route to go. Ultimately, I decided to go w/ the Vortech, b/c although it's still FI, it isn't as complex (out of the box) as a turbo is (and i use this statement very loosely).
I also contacted Z Car Garage to do my install and tune (read about one of the G35s they did in Sport Compact Car), as people I've talked to around my area (Orange County, CA) are more familiar w/ 2JZs, or B-series engines. The other option I had was VRT, but they didn't return my calls and/or e-mails; I assume they're busy with current customers, and i don't want to pester them with mundane questions.

Long story short, I've decided on the full Vortech kit w/ the 3.12 pulley, to go along w/ JWT cams, DC headers, Stillen or Borla exhaust, Crawford Z plenum, Stillen oil cooler, and Arc oil catch can. Drivetrain will be with the JWT clutch and flywheel combo (LSD down the road)
Here's my question: i want to go to a 2.87 down the road, and I am well aware that i will need to address the fuel system., so I will save up for the CJM return line system. But should I add the 440cc injectors NOW, or down the road? Also, should I invest in pistons and rods while my car is up on the lift, or again, wait until I get the 2.87? My goal is for around 390-400rwhp daily driver, but I also want to have an adequate safety margin. Sorry for the long post, and newbie questions.

Oh, and this is going in an 05 6mt Sedan. I also read Sentry's post about the Vortech, and these are a few questions I left the thread with.

thanks, John

for the 2.87 pulley, you'll want 550cc injectors. So I'd stick with the stock ones for awhile with the 3.33 or 3.12 pulley and then go to the 550's

you can get 400whp real easy without the 2.87 pulley with the mods you listed with the 3.12 pulley and a tune :)


IMO you don't need to jump into a built engine for a 400whp vortech setup. Many people have been running the stock block with 400whp for years even

thanks for the response
 

sounds good. That what I was also told from Z Car Garage (Rob is who i spoke to), but as I said, I just wanted to have a good safety margin. I was also afraid of maxing out my stock injectors, which is why I thought of upgrading while my car was on the lift.

John

well upgrading the injectors is never a bad idea and always recommended, but you don't really HAVE to if you don't want to at that power level

Buena park isn't too far from us, If you have any questions let me know I would be more than happy to help, or you can give us a call at the shop!

Good luck!

-George
GT Motorsports

um read a post in the FI that I put up. just search all threads started by me. I have my vortech install with ton of pics. starting out with the 3.12 pully I would recomend not geting the complete kit. You will need larger injectors/fuel delivery with just the 3.12 at high rpm's

If you can afford to do the built motor now, I would definitely do it.

I don't want to turn this into a TT is better than a S/C or that S/C suck, but for all the money you are going to spend I would just buy an APS TT and have it tuned to 400whp-420whp. It's not more complex and it's been proven that under 450whp with a good tune the motor will hold up.

Also know that although I now have a TT on my car, I orginally started off with a Vortech. It was on my car for 3 weeks, before I took it off for the TT swap. I just didn't do it for me.

I just wanted to give you something to consider so later on the down the road you won't be telling yourself I should have gone TT. After all your going to be spending around the same $$, maybe just a little more on the TT.

If you were just going with the out of the box Vortech it would make sense, but after adding all those mods to the Vortech I'd just prefer to go with an APS TT.

If i were you.. i would go to GTM instead of Z Car Garage... not going to get into it.. but trust me on this one

sentry65 vortech masta!

When I'm ready to go FI I'm searcfhing all your great posts.

+1000!

I would opt for an engine management system, walbro pump, 3.12 pulley, 550cc injectors, and fuel return system before the cams or headers. In fact, I would do the return fuel system just to not have to deal with drilling the stock regulator and possible fuel pressure issues. Just a thought.

I don't understand why you would spend all that money on additional mods on top of the cost Vortech and still have less potential power out of the box than with a TT kit like APS, that has everything included you need to get 400whp? If you're worried about safety, and I can understand that since I blew my motor, go with a ST or TT kit and just run lower/stock boost for 360-400whp and the motor will be fine. Then later if you want more power, you build the motor and turn up the boost safely. Or if you really want to save money in the beginning, build you motor before or at the same time you go FI. This makes practical and financial sense.:)

Please learn some lessons from the guys, who've already been down this costly road. Do it right the first time. :icon44:

If he was just installing the out of the box Vortech then it makes sense. Plenty of people are running 400whp on the out of the box Vortech set up so spending all that money on extra mods is not really necessary unless you plan on maxing out the Vortech like Sentry.

If my car was closer to stock at the time, I might have possibly been swayed to go with a APS TT instead of the vortech. I was on the fence for awhile


I already had all of my breathing mods already in place from when I was NA. All I really did was add the vortech and 2.87 pulley and then later replaced parts as needed. Like when my crawford cats went bad, I replaced them with the higher flowing AAM 2.5 inch ones etc

I figured, no matter what kit I went with, I'd go with the CJM return kit. So really it came down to $3600 for a vortech tuner kit and a $70 pulley and a quick simple $1200 install vs dumping like $6k on a APS tuner kit and $$3 install. So $4870 vs $9000.


Yes I knew that if I sold my NA parts, that'd help fund the money towards the APS kit (like maybe $1000-1200 for my crawford headers and 3.9 FD/nismo LSD pumkin), but at the time, I figured the stock block will only hold so much power anyway and the only advantage the APS TT would give me in the short term was a little more power at low rpms. I also was really interested in an extremely flat torque curve. From what I've seen that's only been achieved with a TT kit with very low boost around 350-380whp. The vortech looked like no matter how much power it ran, the nature of how it works would ensure a flat torque curve. I was also intrigued by the notion of running the 3.9 final drive with the vortech because no one had ever tried it up to that point and the more I thought about it, the more it seemed perfect for the vortech.



As it were, if I had gone with the APS TT, the 3.9 final drive would probably have had to go, along with my headers, and I would have gone with test pipes instead of cats. I didn't feel like ditching parts I didn't even have on my car a year yet, and I wasn't ever looking for 600+whp potential. I just wanted more top end because I was already happy with the low end power/tq I had with the 3.9 FD and lsd

The other thing is, there's been quite a few people who have demolished their engine with the APS TT kit, yet I couldn't and still have yet to find anyone with a vortech who blew a hole in their block with a vortech kit - just chipping ringlands or spinning crankshaft bearings under abusive conditions is about all I've heard of. I'd like my stock block to live a long time if possible. Might as well get my money's worth out of it


the vortech still has some decent potential. Even I haven't even gone to the 34 cog pulley yet. If someone were to build their block, use the 34 cog pulley with 2.87 pulley and rev to 7000 rpms, IMO 500whp and 390-400tq would completely be possible. No matter what FI kit people get, if someone spent extra money on a stroker kit and ported heads, they'd probably gain additional power and especially low end torque


though going with a TT, test pipes and big exhaust is pretty simple as far as mods go. Just those 3 things will get you some awesome power instead of having to do cams and headers with a vortech to squeeze every last bit of power out of it.

...but anyway, that's where all my decisions stemmed from


I can't say I've had a really easy road and at times wish I had just gone with a TT and been done with it because they seem simpler than all the stuff going on with my car...but knowing me, I probably would have added all the extra stuff at some point anyway

I see everyone's point, and I'm also very glad that I'm not getting flamed for being such a newbie on this, so thanks for the responses.

First, my main concern is CARB. Vortech is carb legal, and i can at least use the sticker if i get pulled over. Unless things have changed w/ the JWT, i know that none of the TT kits are CARB.

Secondly, more or less, I swayed towards the s/c just based on experiences i've witnessed through my friends who had bolt-on turbos on N/A cars (Prelude, Celica). Bad gaskets, poor build quality, constant tuning trying to get the car to run 'adequately'. I understand that FI and budgets are not really used in the same sentence, but since it is a daily driver, i'm trying to build a car that won't spend more time on the lift than on the road. Plus, I figured with the Vortech being CARB legal, I could at least fool the fuzz with the sticker (i know the upgrades won't be carb legal, but unless the cops have tools in their cars, they won't see the other mods). Financially, I was quoted around 11K installed and tuned for the parts I listed in the original post. I feel that I've addressed key issues that needed to be addressed, but please point out other things I may have overseen.

John

I've never had any of these issues other than retuning and that was due to a bad tune and install of my EMS from the shop that did the work originally. After I had it fixed the car has not needed retuning or anything as far as maintance other than changing plugs and oil.

This is a good reason for going with the Vortech over a TT, but if you don't care about carb and are willing spend extra $$ to upgrade the vortech you're better off going with a install it and forget it kit like the APS TT.

yeah the turbo kits for the Z/G have generally been pretty decent with reliability. Especially for the out of the box APS kits that have already thought of everything you'll need. Not very many people have blow their engine lately compared to over a year ago where it was more common, but it still occassionally happens

I think the only downside of the APS kit is the unusually long wait if you have to order from APS. If your lucky enough to find a shop that has one in stock thats another story. Im also on the TT bandwagon (or even the APS ST since its so under rated but has so much great potential). Having gone the NA w/bolt ons, ST, and now TT, I look back and wish I had just pulled the trigger on it sooner.

Not sure what its like out there on the West Coast, but here 11k for a vortech is more expensive than an ST install, and even some basic Greddy installs. I can't speak to the CARB stuff, as the last time I was in Cali they weren't really enforcing it (but that was like 8-10 years ago).