--->jkenefic version 3.0 build<---
06-04-2008, 07:26 AM
#103
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Originally Posted by helldorado
So what would be the realistic expectation of cost savings of using HR studs over L19's?
06-04-2008, 07:31 AM
#105
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Originally Posted by Motormouth
machining costs as well, if there is a difference.
06-04-2008, 08:08 AM
#108
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+1,
tom you dont need machining, this is why i am not such a fan of the 1/2" cause this are tricky to machine, and people have yet to break them.
ON the topic. I do think the HR bolts will be a good option for the "stage0" build engines......granted this experiment worst, otherwise i would go with l17s on this "stage0" builds.
Originally Posted by Motormouth
I meant between the L19s and HR studs. do the L19s require machining?
ON the topic. I do think the HR bolts will be a good option for the "stage0" build engines......granted this experiment worst, otherwise i would go with l17s on this "stage0" builds.
06-04-2008, 08:17 AM
#109
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Originally Posted by jkenefic
There are no additional machining costs to use the bolts, however you need to clearance the water passages at the front of the block in order to use the HR head gaskets with the redircted coolant flow. It took me about 1hr to get down in there with the die grinder to lower the dividers on each side by number 1 and 2 cyls.
Do you have any pictures of the area that needs the grinding? How much do you have to lower the dividers.
06-04-2008, 01:08 PM
#112
Originally Posted by Klumzyee
...
http://www.jimwolftechnology.com/wol...HEAD_BOLTS.pdf
^ see that .PDF file it'll give you some good info.. You guys can see that the Studs themselves are about the same from our DE's.. it was the early motors that shared the JDM studs.. The strength between the two studs (DE and HR) are not too far from eachother.. the HR is slightly longer by a few threads but giving the low cost of parts there isn't a reason to not change to HR bolts. Above .PDF will also show you pictures of the modded headgasket.
And again, congrats on the awesome build =D
http://www.jimwolftechnology.com/wol...HEAD_BOLTS.pdf
^ see that .PDF file it'll give you some good info.. You guys can see that the Studs themselves are about the same from our DE's.. it was the early motors that shared the JDM studs.. The strength between the two studs (DE and HR) are not too far from eachother.. the HR is slightly longer by a few threads but giving the low cost of parts there isn't a reason to not change to HR bolts. Above .PDF will also show you pictures of the modded headgasket.
And again, congrats on the awesome build =D
I would like to hear what engine builders think about using a similar torquing methodology for ARP bolts (slightly less ft-lbs, followed by a fixed angle). After all, all bolts stretch, just to varying degrees...
Last edited by rcdash; 06-04-2008 at 01:11 PM.
06-04-2008, 01:59 PM
#113
Lets be very clear here a moderator, is here to moderator if the public has been warned not to take a thread off topic then dont go down that route. Dave nore any mod has to pm someone if their post is deleted. If you don't want it removed stay on topic. So that we are very clear this topic is on jkenefic's motor build NOT RA . So what we are saying as mods is talk about jkenefics car only not RA's motor build strategies. Thank you for reading. Accord to FI conduct rules we will continue banning with out warning for those who violate them. Now back on topic
06-04-2008, 02:00 PM
#114
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rcdash the HR bolts have a slightly superior yield ratting then DE.. but they're very similar. APR studs are torque to spec and as far as I'm aware the HR bolts has the highest yeild rating making them a bolt of choice?
re-edited - romey you have a PM, just some questions???
re-edited - romey you have a PM, just some questions???
06-04-2008, 02:06 PM
#115
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Klumzyee thanks I saw that before. I didn't realize the grinding was for the block. Next time I have to pay better attention. By the way I was quoting your post and my post was deleted at the same time. Such is life. I had others deleted here as well. Wow that was a quick ban.
06-04-2008, 02:19 PM
#118
Originally Posted by Klumzyee
rcdash the HR bolts have a slightly superior yield ratting then DE.. but they're very similar. APR studs are torque to spec and as far as I'm aware the HR bolts has the highest yeild rating making them a bolt of choice?
re-edited - romey you have a PM, just some questions???
re-edited - romey you have a PM, just some questions???
Put another way, a stock head bolt tightened to 80 ft-lbs may clamp just fine, but it is unlikely that a 12 mm head bolt will hold sufficient fatigue resistance at that low torque (it will lose clamping force over time). It needs to be tighter and exert a greater clamping force to hold.
All new stuff to me, but interesting.
06-04-2008, 03:03 PM
#119
Originally Posted by rcdash
The yield strength of an L19 should be higher, right? The problem with a stronger bolt (to my understanding) is that you have to torque to a higher percentage of a stiffer bolt's yield strength to achieve fatigue resistance. In other words the "sweet spot" for a stiffer bolt is narrower and generally the clamping force required greater to reach that sweet spot, and thus the resultant ill effects on the surfaces being clamped (that were not designed for those clamping forces).
Put another way, a stock head bolt tightened to 80 ft-lbs may clamp just fine, but it is unlikely that a 12 mm head bolt will hold sufficient fatigue resistance at that low torque (it will lose clamping force over time). It needs to be tighter and exert a greater clamping force to hold.
All new stuff to me, but interesting.
Put another way, a stock head bolt tightened to 80 ft-lbs may clamp just fine, but it is unlikely that a 12 mm head bolt will hold sufficient fatigue resistance at that low torque (it will lose clamping force over time). It needs to be tighter and exert a greater clamping force to hold.
All new stuff to me, but interesting.
06-04-2008, 03:13 PM
#120
I'm having a 'few' mods done to my EVO while I'm away on my trip, and the first thing that the big name shops (Full-Race, AMS, Buschur) strongly suggested L19 studs with the stock head gasket... The L19's are so widely used on that platform that they can be purchased for ~$200, still double the price of the standard ARps $100 - but a great value vs having to replace the headgasket down the road...
I'm glad people are testing less expensive alternatives, and more importantly providing details on the exact hardware, but call me conservative, I would still recommend at least L19's for our platform at this point.
I'm glad people are testing less expensive alternatives, and more importantly providing details on the exact hardware, but call me conservative, I would still recommend at least L19's for our platform at this point.