BB turbo's VS. jurnal bearing turbo's
 

Guys im just looking for some input on what the plus's and minus's of the two bearing type's?/

I know BB turbos tend to have better response and spool a little faster but are more prone to damage from heat??

Jurnal bearings are very basic and i would think to be a little more robust than the BB's??

The reason that i ask is the new APS tuner kits come with Jurnal bearings VS. the old BB kits. The APS delear near me has only one BB kit left and cant get the BB kits from APS any more.

Do most stock turbo cars such as audi 1.8t engines come with BB turbos or the cheaper jurnal type??

Thanks for the replys guys.

go bb, aps is going jurnal to make the kit more economically appealing

Are you askin us which will last longer? Kinda confused on the question.

go with the BB's man. The spool will definitely be quicker

Im asking what would people recomend?? Jurnal bearings are cheaper and are the Ball bearings worth the extra expence??

And what bearings will stand up to track abuse better??

The reason i asked about the 1.8t audi is i have driven a 225 audi TT and also a mk3 supra turbo and a few other turbo cars too. I just wanted to know if stock cars use BB turbos or cheaper Jurnal type turbos??

As far as I know, no stock car manufactured today use's bb turbos. All journal. I believe volvo had bb's in an industrial truck but thats a different story.

BB turbos are quite a bit more expensive than the same turbo with JB (usually about $900-$1000 for bb's).

If you are running larger turbos on a smaller engine BB is helpfull. If you are running smaller-mid sized turbos then there isn't that big a spool difference (just a couple hundred rpm). So look into what your goals are first.

As an FYI, my setup is JB and I see full boost in low gears at 3800-4000rpm, and higher gears 3200-3500rpm and thats with 54mm turbos.

Tom

Ball bearing turbos are more efficient, therefore you can see boost quicker. The BB cartridge is not as dependent on oil for lubrication and uses water to cool them. I sell both and have seen 2 BB units come back for repair (not for seal issues) and I would estimate about 50 journal bearing units over the last 4 years... for seal repair.

The biggest problem with turbos is to much or to little oil pressure. On a journal bearing turbo, they can either get to much or starve the seal causing the seal to wear and oil to go past the seal... Where on a BB unit there is a restrictor fitting built in to keep the volume of the oil to a manageable point. The water takes care of the cooling.

We take the oil from a sensor location and it seems to feed the turbos just fine... I have not reported any failures on the VQ's that we have turbo'd

the MKIII supra turbo you spoke of is water cooled... but not ball bearing. They do this to make them last longer.

Thanks,
Tim

Thanks for the help guys. Im just woried if i go for the Journal bearing APS tuner kit it will feel laggy comparison to the BB APS KIT.

If you guys had the choice between the older BB kit with inturnal waste gates and 2.5inch HFC's or the Turner kit with Journal bearings PLUS 3.5inch extreme down pipes and 38mm tial exturnal waste gates what would you guys think would be the best kit ??

Also does any one know if the new APS tuner turbos are water or oil cooled??


Thanks for the help.

What are your power goals and boost levels planned. That may determine better which turbos to go due to wastegates. External WG should have better boost control vs internal.

Tom

dude you said it yourself... You are concerned about lag. The BB's are going to be the choice for you unless you just can't afford them, in which case the thread would be pointless.

Id take the 3.5" DP's w/open dumps and journal bearing setup anyday.

^^^and what he said^^^ :)
On a small turbo, I have never seen this reported spool up improvement on BB turbo, and we log every car on the dyno. On a big turbo, like we use on the Evo's, BB all the way. :)

I would have no reservation about using the new APS Tuner kit with non-BB center section.

The new APS TT kit with journal style turbos spools surprisingly quick. I don't notice any lag.

An added plus of the new APS tuner kit is that it basically comes with the manifolds, downpipes and wastegate pipes from the extreme kit. Compare these to the website:

Attachment 221928 Attachment 221929 Attachment 221930

http://www.airpowersystems.com/350z/...s-09/index.htm

Thats kind of what i wanted to hear. I can live with a few hundred RPM's slower spool for better boost control via the external gates.

As for the open dumps, the stock APS kit routes them back into the exhaust so is it a big benifit to run open dumps??

+1 What Alberto and Sharif said.

The difference in spool between small turbos that are BB and TB is nearly unnoticeable. In fact, with external gates and 3.5DPs the thrust bearing turbos might actually spool FASTER than the BB turbos of the same size with internal gates and 2.5 DPs.

How much do you want to scare the crap outta people when you run them :whoopin:

I track my car here in the UK on road corses and have to meet nosie regs. to get on track. My car as it is now is 92dB at 4700rpm my local track has a noise limit of 105dB at 4700rpm. Also it has drive by noise meters, if you trip a noise meter they kick you off!

any one have any idea how loud a stock block with open dumps would be running 6-7psi??

I know thats a very had question to answer but ive seen all the vids in the world with open dumps but never any noise meter reading ect...