Limit of standard arp headstuds
10-06-2009, 03:30 PM
#1
Limit of standard arp headstuds
i was wondering, what are the whp limits using the std arp heads. i know L19 and 1/2 headstuds are grails on this forum but i dont have that kind of money plain and simple. my power goals are 450whp on a dynodnamics. will these suffice and what are their limits. thanks in advance
10-06-2009, 03:42 PM
#2
New Member
iTrader: (13)
a few questions on longetivity....and other issues such as tunning that will come into play......but there are dyno numbers on the L17s over 800whp....so you should be fine with those for your goals...heck if your goals are that in the 480dd...530dj, then give the HR studs a shot
10-06-2009, 06:01 PM
#3
i was wondering, what are the whp limits using the std arp heads. i know L19 and 1/2 headstuds are grails on this forum but i dont have that kind of money plain and simple. my power goals are 450whp on a dynodnamics. will these suffice and what are their limits. thanks in advance
10-06-2009, 06:24 PM
#4
For 450 whp, the HR head bolts are a consideration. MadScientist had problems with them at 680 whp, but that's the only problem I have heard of. If I remember correctly, they cost somewhere around $60 - $80 or so. They MUST be torqued properly. Also, once you use them, they cannot be re-used because they are torque-to-yield (TTY). If I were going for 450 whp, they would be my choice.
So if the HR TTY headstuds are good but can only be used once, the REUSEABLE arp standard headstuds should suffice RIGHT???
10-06-2009, 07:05 PM
#6
aslo how much are a set of HR headstuds
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10-06-2009, 07:19 PM
#8
str8dum1 is right, the stench of dreamer is making me gag..... the OP obviously had no idea the complexity of this motor.
pulling the heads is basically the same as going through the motor. to get the heads off, you have to take a part the entire front timing portion of the motor, essentially getting it down to a short block form... oil pan off, timing chains, oil and water pumps, tensioners, countless sensors, etc. This isn't even factoring in getting at the motor. That will entail pulling the motor, or removing the entire front end of the car and core support.
'when' you do it the first time, you will realize that it isn't something you will be doing again unless you are forced to. Do yourself a favor, save up your pennies and do everything once.
I had standard ARP studs, and IMHO they aren't any better than the stock bolts. You torque them to basically the same spec.... only differnce is that they don't stretch -> big damn deal. The stock assembly with gaskets will likely have longer staying power than opening it up to put standard ARP studs in. Also, don't the standard ARP studs have a comparable price to the L19's? So why wouldn't you go with sometihg more proven?
pulling the heads is basically the same as going through the motor. to get the heads off, you have to take a part the entire front timing portion of the motor, essentially getting it down to a short block form... oil pan off, timing chains, oil and water pumps, tensioners, countless sensors, etc. This isn't even factoring in getting at the motor. That will entail pulling the motor, or removing the entire front end of the car and core support.
'when' you do it the first time, you will realize that it isn't something you will be doing again unless you are forced to. Do yourself a favor, save up your pennies and do everything once.
I had standard ARP studs, and IMHO they aren't any better than the stock bolts. You torque them to basically the same spec.... only differnce is that they don't stretch -> big damn deal. The stock assembly with gaskets will likely have longer staying power than opening it up to put standard ARP studs in. Also, don't the standard ARP studs have a comparable price to the L19's? So why wouldn't you go with sometihg more proven?
Last edited by Zivman; 10-06-2009 at 07:21 PM.
10-06-2009, 07:56 PM
#9
New Member
iTrader: (13)
str8dum1 is right, the stench of dreamer is making me gag..... the OP obviously had no idea the complexity of this motor.
pulling the heads is basically the same as going through the motor. to get the heads off, you have to take a part the entire front timing portion of the motor, essentially getting it down to a short block form... oil pan off, timing chains, oil and water pumps, tensioners, countless sensors, etc. This isn't even factoring in getting at the motor. That will entail pulling the motor, or removing the entire front end of the car and core support.
'when' you do it the first time, you will realize that it isn't something you will be doing again unless you are forced to. Do yourself a favor, save up your pennies and do everything once.
I had standard ARP studs, and IMHO they aren't any better than the stock bolts. You torque them to basically the same spec.... only differnce is that they don't stretch -> big damn deal. The stock assembly with gaskets will likely have longer staying power than opening it up to put standard ARP studs in. Also, don't the standard ARP studs have a comparable price to the L19's? So why wouldn't you go with sometihg more proven?
pulling the heads is basically the same as going through the motor. to get the heads off, you have to take a part the entire front timing portion of the motor, essentially getting it down to a short block form... oil pan off, timing chains, oil and water pumps, tensioners, countless sensors, etc. This isn't even factoring in getting at the motor. That will entail pulling the motor, or removing the entire front end of the car and core support.
'when' you do it the first time, you will realize that it isn't something you will be doing again unless you are forced to. Do yourself a favor, save up your pennies and do everything once.
I had standard ARP studs, and IMHO they aren't any better than the stock bolts. You torque them to basically the same spec.... only differnce is that they don't stretch -> big damn deal. The stock assembly with gaskets will likely have longer staying power than opening it up to put standard ARP studs in. Also, don't the standard ARP studs have a comparable price to the L19's? So why wouldn't you go with sometihg more proven?
also besides the pricing...the stock bolts being about equal to L17s?...id like to see you get over 700 even on the stock bolts...
In the end the op has enough options dending on how his $$$ work for him...thats a different story...
but i know of 906whp on L17s and stock de gasket with a perfect tune....so i am going or real performance not just speculation....(for gasket cost id upgrade it though)
Last edited by IIQuickSilverII; 10-06-2009 at 08:02 PM.
10-06-2009, 08:17 PM
#11
^ are you being sarcastic?
they are single use bc you stretch them when tightening.
I'm sure there are plenty of people that have the time and knowledge to do the work. In the grand scheme of the total cost of a motor, an extra 200$ or less if just cheap insurance.
But, with teh HR bolts and HG, it would probably be fine at the power he wants. But who ever stays at their projected power level for very long
they are single use bc you stretch them when tightening.
I'm sure there are plenty of people that have the time and knowledge to do the work. In the grand scheme of the total cost of a motor, an extra 200$ or less if just cheap insurance.
But, with teh HR bolts and HG, it would probably be fine at the power he wants. But who ever stays at their projected power level for very long
10-07-2009, 04:16 AM
#12
few thing i have a problem with what you say.....first dont underestimate the op...and i say that because i know some people on the forum perfectly capable of doingthat kind of diy work .....and also wouldnt be first time you have to pull an engine out of the car again if you are a shop....
also besides the pricing...the stock bolts being about equal to L17s?...id like to see you get over 700 even on the stock bolts...
In the end the op has enough options dending on how his $$$ work for him...thats a different story...
but i know of 906whp on L17s and stock de gasket with a perfect tune....so i am going or real performance not just speculation....(for gasket cost id upgrade it though)
also besides the pricing...the stock bolts being about equal to L17s?...id like to see you get over 700 even on the stock bolts...
In the end the op has enough options dending on how his $$$ work for him...thats a different story...
but i know of 906whp on L17s and stock de gasket with a perfect tune....so i am going or real performance not just speculation....(for gasket cost id upgrade it though)
I had the standard ARP studs on my 'first' build... maybe part of the reason there was a second build
so I am not talking about my @ss and "not just speculation"
10-07-2009, 04:35 AM
#13
New Member
iTrader: (13)
See i call when i see stupid "dream threads" around....or too much stupidity by n00bs on threads, but i see fair question here so far*and someone that actually did a bit of reserach before posting), and rather than sounding condecending in your 1st post, you should have also posted your comments based on "YOUR experience" with the L17s .... and i am rebutting that, based of what i have seen experienced shops have way better results than you got a long time ago.
Last edited by IIQuickSilverII; 10-07-2009 at 04:39 AM.
10-07-2009, 07:35 AM
#14
no, he is talking about head work on cams, springs, shims....and who knows maybe he decides to to send the heads for porting.,....nobody is just talking about a 300 dollar gasket....and i you see my post(i am guessing you didnt real mine nor the ops post well) i even suggested he gets one because its such a cheap part of the cost.
no, thats why i mentioned other factors that are involved such as a perfect tune...gman also used standard studs and he couldn't get more than 550whp i think before experiencing headlift.....not sure who your tuner/builder must have been at the time, but i am going based of what i have seen some top renown shops do...i am not talking about pre 2007....talking about now, and i am telling you 906whp is what i have seen them perform at....and daily driven at ~700
See i call when i see stupid "dream threads" around....or too much stupidity by n00bs on threads, but i see fair question here so far*and someone that actually did a bit of reserach before posting), and rather than sounding condecending in your 1st post, you should have also posted your comments based on "YOUR experience" with the L17s .... and i am rebutting that, based of what i have seen experienced shops have way better results than you got a long time ago.
no, thats why i mentioned other factors that are involved such as a perfect tune...gman also used standard studs and he couldn't get more than 550whp i think before experiencing headlift.....not sure who your tuner/builder must have been at the time, but i am going based of what i have seen some top renown shops do...i am not talking about pre 2007....talking about now, and i am telling you 906whp is what i have seen them perform at....and daily driven at ~700
See i call when i see stupid "dream threads" around....or too much stupidity by n00bs on threads, but i see fair question here so far*and someone that actually did a bit of reserach before posting), and rather than sounding condecending in your 1st post, you should have also posted your comments based on "YOUR experience" with the L17s .... and i am rebutting that, based of what i have seen experienced shops have way better results than you got a long time ago.
Second off, you show me a guy that says his car has a perfect tune and I will show you a liar.
10-07-2009, 07:58 AM
#16
^ are you being sarcastic?
they are single use bc you stretch them when tightening.
I'm sure there are plenty of people that have the time and knowledge to do the work. In the grand scheme of the total cost of a motor, an extra 200$ or less if just cheap insurance.
But, with teh HR bolts and HG, it would probably be fine at the power he wants. But who ever stays at their projected power level for very long
they are single use bc you stretch them when tightening.
I'm sure there are plenty of people that have the time and knowledge to do the work. In the grand scheme of the total cost of a motor, an extra 200$ or less if just cheap insurance.
But, with teh HR bolts and HG, it would probably be fine at the power he wants. But who ever stays at their projected power level for very long
10-07-2009, 10:11 AM
#19
let's take this in another direction..... if the few hundred bucks it takes to get head gaskets and L19's are going to cost too much; the OP doesn't have deep enough pockets to boost his car in the first place. And if he does have enough money he is just looking for places to be cheap