Kirks06

So a little back story I bought this Vortech V3 from Chef on here and installed the s/c with return fuel line DW 600 injectors among other things like bigger rad, oil cooler, tranny cooler, water/meth injection. So I take it to Cobb tuning to get a custom dyno tune. Well they call me and tell me the car was on the dyno and something inside the engine let go. Chris at Cobb Plano said I was making about 340 on a mustang dyno at about 13psi when something went boom. So does anyone think Cobb could have done something wrong? Please check out page 5 for more pics. Thanks Kirk

Chris@FsP

iTrader: (4)

Post up the graph of the dyno run where it blew.

350Z400rwhp

iTrader: (4)

Sorry to hear about that man. It's hard to say where the fault is with your blown motor. I always like to be at the shop when my car is dynoed partially because I can be a witness to the events that happen. How many miles did your car have on it? You could of have a weak part in the motor that gave out when the extra power was added. 13 PSI seems kind of high and 340 seems kind of low, did you have the stock exhaust on?

Cass007

iTrader: (34)

How many miles on your stock block? Ask the shop if they were data logging when the issue happened, thats a start, but the teardown will reveal if they ran it lean and blew it up.

I am not familiar enough with SC setups to speak on the level of boost that is OK to use on a stock block. Your whp indicates that you should have still been fine for stock rods though.

I have only dealt with Kyle once or twice, but his customer service was outstanding. I have seen one or two members that may have had an issue with his blocks and several more that had a very positive experience. Best of luck with your bad situation.

Kirks06

Thanks for the quick replies guys to answer some of the questions it has has about 24K miles on the car. They were data logging and I will get those print outs on Tuesday. I thought 13psi sounded hi but it does have the 2.87 pulley on it and also have hi flow cats megan y pipe and megan cat back exhaust. They did say everything looked good like a/f they were targeting 11.5 and it was building power like should. I would have loved to have been there but I had to work.

str8dum1

iTrader: (11)

that power is def fine for the motor. I'm running 460hp on a dynodynamics at upwards to 15-16+ psi with no problems.

Unless your motor had a previous underlying problem, the tune caused your motor to pop. Regardless, you will be eating this one, so just get that block from IPP and start over.

good luck.

duro78

iTrader: (6)

^^With a stock block...thats one hell of a block then

Kirks06

if they are the reason it blew I don't want them to tune after the rebuild. So how would I find out if it was the tune that caused the failure?

Jtran Studios

iTrader: (3)

only two things i could think of. one......mistake in tuning or number two.....motor wasnt in good condition or tip top condition. i would def. get the log of the run, log of the af, log of ignition timing and also a dyno chart of the previous run before the blow up run.

GT-ER

iTrader: (4)

If at 13psi it only put down 340whp...I would say the tune is the problem.

ezpotato

iTrader: (3)

chris macallero...........

yah man i'm makine 340 whp on 8-9 psi on stock block. this is why i didnt go any bigger than all the stock stuff on the vortech... keeping it safe...

I hope you find out what happeend and get back on your feet. want another sc g35 rolling around!

jran76

iTrader: (1)

Kirk.... I know I mentioned this before you got the tune, but ask them what they did about the timing. A/F can look great, and it is still more than possible to blow a motor if they are not making some serious timing adjustments to control detonation. I am almost certain that is what happened. 13 PSI is the ballpark you would be in with the 2.87. That is a tad high for the stock block, but I would not expect it to let go on the dyno if they were giving it a conservative tune. Regardless, it would require some serious timing adjustments at the higher RPM/boost levels. Something else is way off too if they were only making 340 HP, you should be at 400+ with that setup.

I am not convinced the AP can control timing well enough for that type of boost, and those guys don't have a lot of experience in tuning the VQ. Overall, they are good guys, but I don't get a warm fuzzy when talking to them about our cars sometimes. I can't run the map they did for me on my bone stock G37 because I keep throwing SES lights for various issues....

Man, sorry to hear about your motor. I know you just put in a lot of work, and it has to be pretty depressing to have that happen. I think a basic built block is your best bet, and just go with stock heads for now. IPP down in Houston has some pretty good deals for basic builds, or you can obviously talk with Forged or GTM.... You should be able to make good power with the meth, and that setup. I would seriously consider some other type of engine management unless the can really control the timing more than +/- 2 degrees as stated in their documentation (or add something like the J&S safeguard if you are going to keep the AP). I also think having someone like Chris Macarello do the tune is a lot better idea. Especially now that you can get the AP Tuning software (if you can get it to work... I still can't get it working with my sedan).

Oh, and as Jtran and Chris point out... get the logs and dyno charts for the runs. They should have these as they are a must for tuning.... They should tell you the exact ignition timing and A/F numbers for the runs before and after the failure.

Kirks06

Jran that is great info and thanks for kind words everyone. I did ask them before we started all this if they had more the -or+ 2 degrees of timing control and they said they have complete control over the ecu there words not mine. I also repeated many times I wanted a conservative tune, I wanted to be as safe as I could that's why I added all the coolers and water meth. I am still in shock and depressed I try to look at the bright side though at least the whole car didn't blow up. I am almost to the point where I want to pay someone to do the work. I just don't know who to trust I do know I want Uprev to tune it though. It ran strong in Chef's car and it made over 400whp on stock block and mine blew at 340 that points to the tune. Thanks again for all the info guys I should have listen when people said Cobb was new to VQ's I shouldn't be a guinea pig but I thought vortech should be fairly simple to tune I guess not poor motor it only had 24,000 it didn't deserve it's fait tear rest in peace old friend.

ezpotato

iTrader: (3)

mine had 71k on it when i got the sc installed at RMS in arlington. those guys did a great job and it was wellll priced. had the bad *** Chris Macallero come out and tune it along with Seth at CTP, and have had NO problems besides a couple small fuel problems. if you dont do internals, stick to the bigger pulley and look in the area of 340 whp... it's a safe and fun ride that way.

this is one of those that even the finest tuners can mess up with the smallest error, that's what sucks about this hobby. glad you're a little more positive about it, but i know it's hard not to place the blame on SOMEONE. regardless, cobb are good guys, but my tuning is going to Chris M.

moog

iTrader: (14)

Vortech with 13psi seems too high for a stock block. I was hitting around 9psi on my Vortech setup.

Remember that Mustang Dyno's throw out different numbers than Dynojets (which is what I think Chef's was tuned on? might be mistaken), so you can't use whp #'s as a comparison.

+1 on Chris Macellaro. Best choice in North Texas for tuning.

djamps

iTrader: (1)

My buddy was pushing 13 psi vortech, 400whp (dyno dynamics) and it ran fine. His motor eventually let go because of lack of oil, not tune or power related. I wonder if you had an oil starvation issue. With 340whp it doesn't seem like they were running much timing..

str8dum1

iTrader: (11)

well it might not have been much peak timing, but the problem is around 4500 rpm/max trq. too much timing there woulda popped a motor with alot of detonation.

Kirks06

So if I went with this Chris guy I would need a Utec or is there something else yall recomend? Also how did I get ahold of Chris Macellaro anyone have is info? I am still a little uncertain now on what I want to do about tuning as you guys can imagine I am a little gun shy. I need to get the car home so i can start tearing it down. Thanks again everyone for all your valuable information.

moog

iTrader: (14)

http://www.macellarosperformancetuning.com/

Give him a call...SUPER knowledgeable guy. Best of the best

thom000001

still need a few more detail.....

What exhaust on the car (headers and exhaust....stock?)
More importantly what plugs were you running?

Get that data log if they got it too.

Tom