Vortech gurus. Enter... 928m impeller. Shredded :-(
11-19-2013, 05:53 PM
#44
my friend you may be correct... this car sees alot of road course autox time. infact thats where she let go had to go all the way home to get my trailer
and obviously didnt get to race the rest of the day, i cant afford to keep playing with the "what ifs" although i am aware that the boosted side/built motor side is nothing but what could happens i think i am going to go the single turbo route. i have a decently large fuel system cjm stage 2 walbro 400 and 1k injectors which should be enough to push any single turbo pretty good. i am in the process of picking up a semi complete momentum setup. im hoping with my built motor and current setup i can make somewhere near the power i made over pushing this blower. its been such a huge research/learning experience and to have made 600 hp out of a v2 felt great. to see jons face at z1 after i told him i was hoping for high 5XX and he kinda gave me this look 
to see his face when it hit 608 may have been worth all of this haha. although i am a vortech lover i feel after this it is time for me to move on as many others have before me. 
however. i do plan to pull this blower apart and see inside. i cannot push pull or feel any sort of shaft play in the blower but it is very hard to turn. anyone looking for 1 peice maf tube amongst many other vortech items it will all be for sale soon to help me fund this new setup.
i also have a timrod radius rod for sale if anyone wants it message me
11-19-2013, 06:30 PM
#45
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That's one of the main reasons why I stuck with the Vortech during my motor build instead of just going twin turbos. I want instantaneous power out of a corner and I'm willing to sacrifice torque for it. The Vortech has much lower operating temps compared to turbos, and there's very little airflow during autox. Turbos are hard to keep cool during autox's low speeds.
I wish you luck on whichever route you decide to go with.
I wish you luck on whichever route you decide to go with.
11-19-2013, 08:04 PM
#46
might wanna rethink the momentum if you wanna replicate what you have now havnt seen do it even with the 3794r he only hit 560 and the gt35 kits seem to be able to hit just over 500 and dropping off very rapidly.
honestly i would get ahold of sasha for a 6266 kit get the power you want and it should spool fast enough for your needs.
honestly i would get ahold of sasha for a 6266 kit get the power you want and it should spool fast enough for your needs.
any idea what happened to yours? seems like the bug is going around
my friend you may be correct... this car sees alot of road course autox time. infact thats where she let go had to go all the way home to get my trailer and obviously didnt get to race the rest of the day, i cant afford to keep playing with the "what ifs" although i am aware that the boosted side/built motor side is nothing but what could happens i think i am going to go the single turbo route. i have a decently large fuel system cjm stage 2 walbro 400 and 1k injectors which should be enough to push any single turbo pretty good. i am in the process of picking up a semi complete momentum setup. im hoping with my built motor and current setup i can make somewhere near the power i made over pushing this blower. its been such a huge research/learning experience and to have made 600 hp out of a v2 felt great. to see jons face at z1 after i told him i was hoping for high 5XX and he kinda gave me this look to see his face when it hit 608 may have been worth all of this haha. although i am a vortech lover i feel after this it is time for me to move on as many others have before me.
however. i do plan to pull this blower apart and see inside. i cannot push pull or feel any sort of shaft play in the blower but it is very hard to turn. anyone looking for 1 peice maf tube amongst many other vortech items it will all be for sale soon to help me fund this new setup.
i also have a timrod radius rod for sale if anyone wants it message me
my friend you may be correct... this car sees alot of road course autox time. infact thats where she let go had to go all the way home to get my trailer
and obviously didnt get to race the rest of the day, i cant afford to keep playing with the "what ifs" although i am aware that the boosted side/built motor side is nothing but what could happens i think i am going to go the single turbo route. i have a decently large fuel system cjm stage 2 walbro 400 and 1k injectors which should be enough to push any single turbo pretty good. i am in the process of picking up a semi complete momentum setup. im hoping with my built motor and current setup i can make somewhere near the power i made over pushing this blower. its been such a huge research/learning experience and to have made 600 hp out of a v2 felt great. to see jons face at z1 after i told him i was hoping for high 5XX and he kinda gave me this look to see his face when it hit 608 may have been worth all of this haha. although i am a vortech lover i feel after this it is time for me to move on as many others have before me. however. i do plan to pull this blower apart and see inside. i cannot push pull or feel any sort of shaft play in the blower but it is very hard to turn. anyone looking for 1 peice maf tube amongst many other vortech items it will all be for sale soon to help me fund this new setup.
i also have a timrod radius rod for sale if anyone wants it message me
11-19-2013, 08:10 PM
#47
no offense but where do you get your info from? 1) centrifugal superchargers produce the exact same power curve of a similarly sized turbo there is nothing instantaneous about it, only PD superchargers do that. 2) temp is dependent entirely on on efficiency turbos are comparable to a centrifugal supercharger sometimes even better. same size again worst case you will have the same efficiency, difference is with the turbo you can run less boost to make the same power because the turbo is drawing less power to spin vs the supercharger and thus resulting in a net of less temp. after removing my methanol setup on a 85 degree day at 25 psi boost i only see 110 degree intake temps in first gear, and my turbo draws air in from directly under one of the headers with no heat shield. 3) even if your not seeing high speeds the car is still moving forward with autox you still are getting airflow over the intercooler, not like your drifting and the car is moving sideways.
if someone prefers the supercharger then so be it but need to compare facts to facts and your points are not facts.
if someone prefers the supercharger then so be it but need to compare facts to facts and your points are not facts.
That's one of the main reasons why I stuck with the Vortech during my motor build instead of just going twin turbos. I want instantaneous power out of a corner and I'm willing to sacrifice torque for it. The Vortech has much lower operating temps compared to turbos, and there's very little airflow during autox. Turbos are hard to keep cool during autox's low speeds.
I wish you luck on whichever route you decide to go with.
I wish you luck on whichever route you decide to go with.
Last edited by jerryd87; 11-19-2013 at 08:11 PM.
11-20-2013, 05:03 AM
#50
might wanna rethink the momentum if you wanna replicate what you have now havnt seen do it even with the 3794r he only hit 560 and the gt35 kits seem to be able to hit just over 500 and dropping off very rapidly.
honestly i would get ahold of sasha for a 6266 kit get the power you want and it should spool fast enough for your needs.
honestly i would get ahold of sasha for a 6266 kit get the power you want and it should spool fast enough for your needs.
11-20-2013, 05:41 AM
#51
I have seen a few mid/high 5's on the gt35 from a quick search. I believe dynasty tuned 1? I'm gonna look further into this. 5xxwhp and 5xxwtq would prob feel as wild as 600hp w low tq really If the momentum can make it to 550ish w my cams n motor I would be happy. And then down the road throw a larger turbo if at that time I feel I need more power. I mean at the price I can get this momentum setup I couldn't even buy a new precision turbo alone. I just got done w my motor build and 928m well over 10k has been spent I cannot afford to spend another 4-6k on a Bp kit. If I was even willing to spend 3k I would throw this v1 TI on there still make in the 6xx and stay supercharged.
11-20-2013, 08:06 AM
#52
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Who's talking about power curve? We're talking about the difference in boost lag between a large turbo versus a small Vortech on a low speed track. I track my Vortech Z and have owned large-turbo cars before. You're trying to say there is no lag difference? Have you tracked a Vortech Z? The Vortech is absolutely instantaneous compared to a big turbo.
Again, who is talking about intake temps? I'm talking about oil temps. A turbo is going to increase oil temps on a low speed track far higher than a Vortech. My V3 doesn't even use the engine's oil, it's self-lubricated. The blower is cool to the touch after a few minutes. The last time I ran at Sears Point my oil temps never reached higher than 230F in 90 degree weather. If I were to slap twin turbos on I guarantee I would have a hard time keeping my oil temps in checks.
Not sure why you felt the need to make this reply...none of what you said was relevant to the statements I made. Are you just trying to prove that turbos are always better than a supercharger?
Again, who is talking about intake temps? I'm talking about oil temps. A turbo is going to increase oil temps on a low speed track far higher than a Vortech. My V3 doesn't even use the engine's oil, it's self-lubricated. The blower is cool to the touch after a few minutes. The last time I ran at Sears Point my oil temps never reached higher than 230F in 90 degree weather. If I were to slap twin turbos on I guarantee I would have a hard time keeping my oil temps in checks.
Not sure why you felt the need to make this reply...none of what you said was relevant to the statements I made. Are you just trying to prove that turbos are always better than a supercharger?
no offense but where do you get your info from? 1) centrifugal superchargers produce the exact same power curve of a similarly sized turbo there is nothing instantaneous about it, only PD superchargers do that. 2) temp is dependent entirely on on efficiency turbos are comparable to a centrifugal supercharger sometimes even better. same size again worst case you will have the same efficiency, difference is with the turbo you can run less boost to make the same power because the turbo is drawing less power to spin vs the supercharger and thus resulting in a net of less temp. after removing my methanol setup on a 85 degree day at 25 psi boost i only see 110 degree intake temps in first gear, and my turbo draws air in from directly under one of the headers with no heat shield. 3) even if your not seeing high speeds the car is still moving forward with autox you still are getting airflow over the intercooler, not like your drifting and the car is moving sideways.
if someone prefers the supercharger then so be it but need to compare facts to facts and your points are not facts.
if someone prefers the supercharger then so be it but need to compare facts to facts and your points are not facts.
11-20-2013, 12:26 PM
#53
highest one i could find from dynosty was this one at 516 and the second highest momentum gt35 kit i have seen, only one i saw with mid 500s was a gt3794R kit and you can see the torque dropping off pretty steady.
https://my350z.com/forum/forced-indu...hp-pics-4.html
here is the highest ive seen at 517 and the power drop off was severe granted its a power lab but its the same turbo this one if he would have revved it out the same as his first run it would have intersected the first run.
https://my350z.com/forum/forced-indu...-91-oct-2.html
the turbo is just done around there for our engines
https://my350z.com/forum/forced-indu...hp-pics-4.html
here is the highest ive seen at 517 and the power drop off was severe granted its a power lab but its the same turbo this one if he would have revved it out the same as his first run it would have intersected the first run.
https://my350z.com/forum/forced-indu...-91-oct-2.html
the turbo is just done around there for our engines
I have seen a few mid/high 5's on the gt35 from a quick search. I believe dynasty tuned 1? I'm gonna look further into this. 5xxwhp and 5xxwtq would prob feel as wild as 600hp w low tq really If the momentum can make it to 550ish w my cams n motor I would be happy. And then down the road throw a larger turbo if at that time I feel I need more power. I mean at the price I can get this momentum setup I couldn't even buy a new precision turbo alone. I just got done w my motor build and 928m well over 10k has been spent I cannot afford to spend another 4-6k on a Bp kit. If I was even willing to spend 3k I would throw this v1 TI on there still make in the 6xx and stay supercharged.
11-20-2013, 12:36 PM
#55
power curve IS lag comparing a small supercharger to a large turbo is comparing apples to televisions. you take a super charger flowing 1100 cfm and a turbo flowing 1100 cfm and the power curve AND boost curve will be 100% identical. AGAIN ill keep saying it the z and vq are nothing magical they behave the same way as everything else out there. vortech on one car will behave the same way as vortech on another car there isnt anything magical about it. 0 psi at 3200 rpms isnt instantaneous that has more lag then my 6766 or hell even my old 6765 one of sashas 6266 kits will destroy that in power AND lag.
http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/...-568x-dyno.jpg
oil temps? even better i dont see over 180 degrees oil temps after repeated 20-170-20 runs for 30-45 minutes straight in 85 degree weather your arguement is invalid if your seeing higher temps on a turbo then you didnt plan your build appropriately. its funny how there are guys out there tracking in auto cross, gt road racing, AND drifting with absolutely none of the oil cooling issues you seem to have.
im proving that you really dont know what your talking about and making statements based on opinion instead of fact. people such as yourself who really have no real experience building cars but try to play off as experts are annoying as **** and why this platform has such horrid misinformation spread around and people think there is something magical about it that makes it ****. if i was trying to prove turbos where better then super chargers i would start listing things like the cobra jet mustang that picked up 400 rpms spool and made the same power at 5 psi less when moving to twin turbo over the super charger, or how many racing classes banned turbos after they started winning everything, how most pro builders prefer them now over superchargers of any kind unless building a class specific car, and other such examples i could go on for days with. point being if you dont know dont speak up.
http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/...-568x-dyno.jpg
oil temps? even better i dont see over 180 degrees oil temps after repeated 20-170-20 runs for 30-45 minutes straight in 85 degree weather your arguement is invalid if your seeing higher temps on a turbo then you didnt plan your build appropriately. its funny how there are guys out there tracking in auto cross, gt road racing, AND drifting with absolutely none of the oil cooling issues you seem to have.
im proving that you really dont know what your talking about and making statements based on opinion instead of fact. people such as yourself who really have no real experience building cars but try to play off as experts are annoying as **** and why this platform has such horrid misinformation spread around and people think there is something magical about it that makes it ****. if i was trying to prove turbos where better then super chargers i would start listing things like the cobra jet mustang that picked up 400 rpms spool and made the same power at 5 psi less when moving to twin turbo over the super charger, or how many racing classes banned turbos after they started winning everything, how most pro builders prefer them now over superchargers of any kind unless building a class specific car, and other such examples i could go on for days with. point being if you dont know dont speak up.
Who's talking about power curve? We're talking about the difference in boost lag between a large turbo versus a small Vortech on a low speed track. I track my Vortech Z and have owned large-turbo cars before. You're trying to say there is no lag difference? Have you tracked a Vortech Z? The Vortech is absolutely instantaneous compared to a big turbo.
Again, who is talking about intake temps? I'm talking about oil temps. A turbo is going to increase oil temps on a low speed track far higher than a Vortech. My V3 doesn't even use the engine's oil, it's self-lubricated. The blower is cool to the touch after a few minutes. The last time I ran at Sears Point my oil temps never reached higher than 230F in 90 degree weather. If I were to slap twin turbos on I guarantee I would have a hard time keeping my oil temps in checks.
Not sure why you felt the need to make this reply...none of what you said was relevant to the statements I made. Are you just trying to prove that turbos are always better than a supercharger?
Again, who is talking about intake temps? I'm talking about oil temps. A turbo is going to increase oil temps on a low speed track far higher than a Vortech. My V3 doesn't even use the engine's oil, it's self-lubricated. The blower is cool to the touch after a few minutes. The last time I ran at Sears Point my oil temps never reached higher than 230F in 90 degree weather. If I were to slap twin turbos on I guarantee I would have a hard time keeping my oil temps in checks.
Not sure why you felt the need to make this reply...none of what you said was relevant to the statements I made. Are you just trying to prove that turbos are always better than a supercharger?
Last edited by jerryd87; 11-20-2013 at 12:39 PM.
11-20-2013, 01:57 PM
#56
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power curve IS lag comparing a small supercharger to a large turbo is comparing apples to televisions. you take a super charger flowing 1100 cfm and a turbo flowing 1100 cfm and the power curve AND boost curve will be 100% identical. AGAIN ill keep saying it the z and vq are nothing magical they behave the same way as everything else out there. vortech on one car will behave the same way as vortech on another car there isnt anything magical about it. 0 psi at 3200 rpms isnt instantaneous that has more lag then my 6766 or hell even my old 6765 one of sashas 6266 kits will destroy that in power AND lag.
http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/...-568x-dyno.jpg
http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/...-568x-dyno.jpg
Turbo lag
Turbo lag is the time required to change power output in response to a throttle change, noticed as a hesitation or slowed throttle response when accelerating from idle as compared to a naturally aspirated engine. This is due to the time needed for the exhaust system and turbocharger to generate the required boost. Inertia, friction, and compressor load are the primary contributors to turbo lag. Superchargers do not suffer this problem, because the turbine is eliminated due to the compressor being directly powered by the engine.
Boost threshold
The boost threshold of a turbo system is the lower bound of the region within which the compressor operates. Below a certain rate of flow, a compressor produces insignificant boost. This limits boost at a particular RPM, regardless of exhaust gas pressure. Newer turbocharger and engine developments have steadily reduced boost thresholds.
Stop flaming and harassing people. It's extremely immature. If you disagree with something then intelligently reply with your rebuttal without picking fights or name calling.
Turbo lag is the time required to change power output in response to a throttle change, noticed as a hesitation or slowed throttle response when accelerating from idle as compared to a naturally aspirated engine. This is due to the time needed for the exhaust system and turbocharger to generate the required boost. Inertia, friction, and compressor load are the primary contributors to turbo lag. Superchargers do not suffer this problem, because the turbine is eliminated due to the compressor being directly powered by the engine.
Boost threshold
The boost threshold of a turbo system is the lower bound of the region within which the compressor operates. Below a certain rate of flow, a compressor produces insignificant boost. This limits boost at a particular RPM, regardless of exhaust gas pressure. Newer turbocharger and engine developments have steadily reduced boost thresholds.
11-20-2013, 02:24 PM
#57
COME ON!!!!!!
Please be respectful of the "Topic" of this Thread…..
This is Colombo's Thread, about his Dead Blower and what he may do next.
Please Don't Trash another Thread. If you Guys what to Argue about "Turbo Lag" or who has the Biggest Dick, then Start another Thread of your Own.
Please be respectful of the "Topic" of this Thread…..
This is Colombo's Thread, about his Dead Blower and what he may do next.
Please Don't Trash another Thread. If you Guys what to Argue about "Turbo Lag" or who has the Biggest Dick, then Start another Thread of your Own.
11-20-2013, 03:14 PM
#59
i know FULL well what turbo lag is show me a SINGLE vortech car making 25 psi at 4k, hell even 20 psi at 4k from my low boost map and THAT is with the LARGEST turbine housing with a turbo that produce OVER DOUBLE what your vortech can do. i go from boost threshold to over 20 psi in the time it takes the vortechs to get to 10, mayby 15 if you have a fully upgraded unit with the smallest pulley. so again your argument is 100% invalid so shut your damn hole because the FACT is you have absolutely no clue what your talking about. you attempted to google some **** and contend with someone who actually does know what he is doing and actually builds ****.
your little wikipedia definition is 100% invalid next time you want to challenge someone in a arguement that should NOT be your first source it makes you look even more retarded. especially when your not even comprehending what your reading, laymens terms? that definition you provided says that lag is the time it takes the turbo to go from boost threshold to damn near full boost, frankly simply saying boost threshold to max boost is the best description possible for the masses to understand. AKA THE POWER CURVE REPRESENTS THE LAG SINCE POWER IS DIRECTLY AFFECTED BY BOOST.
also instantaneous would be you have full boost as soon as you hit the throttle should i define instantaneous for you? instead 3500 rpms where boost threshold actually happens to 6400 where that dyno i provided makes 5 psi is horrid, a pro mod 88 would do better then that. thats 1 psi per 600 rpms, in the same time frame i gain over 8 times that, hell i havnt seen a single turbo kit even the rear mounts with lag that bad, smaller pulley will help but the fact is so will a smaller turbine on a turbo and you will be right back at the start. so learn something before you post because you cant win when your plain wrong.
your little wikipedia definition is 100% invalid next time you want to challenge someone in a arguement that should NOT be your first source it makes you look even more retarded. especially when your not even comprehending what your reading, laymens terms? that definition you provided says that lag is the time it takes the turbo to go from boost threshold to damn near full boost, frankly simply saying boost threshold to max boost is the best description possible for the masses to understand. AKA THE POWER CURVE REPRESENTS THE LAG SINCE POWER IS DIRECTLY AFFECTED BY BOOST.
also instantaneous would be you have full boost as soon as you hit the throttle should i define instantaneous for you? instead 3500 rpms where boost threshold actually happens to 6400 where that dyno i provided makes 5 psi is horrid, a pro mod 88 would do better then that. thats 1 psi per 600 rpms, in the same time frame i gain over 8 times that, hell i havnt seen a single turbo kit even the rear mounts with lag that bad, smaller pulley will help but the fact is so will a smaller turbine on a turbo and you will be right back at the start. so learn something before you post because you cant win when your plain wrong.
No, power curve IS NOT lag. You do not even understand the simple concept of turbo lag. Everything you're attempting to prove is what we call boost threshold, not turbo lag.
Turbo lag
Turbo lag is the time required to change power output in response to a throttle change, noticed as a hesitation or slowed throttle response when accelerating from idle as compared to a naturally aspirated engine. This is due to the time needed for the exhaust system and turbocharger to generate the required boost. Inertia, friction, and compressor load are the primary contributors to turbo lag. Superchargers do not suffer this problem, because the turbine is eliminated due to the compressor being directly powered by the engine.
Boost threshold
The boost threshold of a turbo system is the lower bound of the region within which the compressor operates. Below a certain rate of flow, a compressor produces insignificant boost. This limits boost at a particular RPM, regardless of exhaust gas pressure. Newer turbocharger and engine developments have steadily reduced boost thresholds.
Stop flaming and harassing people. It's extremely immature. If you disagree with something then intelligently reply with your rebuttal without picking fights or name calling.Turbo lag is the time required to change power output in response to a throttle change, noticed as a hesitation or slowed throttle response when accelerating from idle as compared to a naturally aspirated engine. This is due to the time needed for the exhaust system and turbocharger to generate the required boost. Inertia, friction, and compressor load are the primary contributors to turbo lag. Superchargers do not suffer this problem, because the turbine is eliminated due to the compressor being directly powered by the engine.
Boost threshold
The boost threshold of a turbo system is the lower bound of the region within which the compressor operates. Below a certain rate of flow, a compressor produces insignificant boost. This limits boost at a particular RPM, regardless of exhaust gas pressure. Newer turbocharger and engine developments have steadily reduced boost thresholds.
11-20-2013, 03:16 PM
#60
except from what he has posted he is going turbo now and the3kgt2 is posting complete ******** and misinformation, quoting wikipedia with absolutely no clue on the subject of what he is talking about. fact is he is the one to derail it bashing turbo's with 100% untruths and not allowing colombo to make a accurate decision because of that.
especially since his wikipedia entry, the part he bolded, refers ONLY to PD superchargers and the fact is a centrifugal superchager like the vortechs is absolutely 100% a belt driven turbo that behaves exactly the same and operates on the exact same principles including boost lag and boost threshold and i could spend 50 hours proving thousands of examples to back that up yet with his side he has.............. oh yah wikipedia which is edited by people such as himself.
especially since his wikipedia entry, the part he bolded, refers ONLY to PD superchargers and the fact is a centrifugal superchager like the vortechs is absolutely 100% a belt driven turbo that behaves exactly the same and operates on the exact same principles including boost lag and boost threshold and i could spend 50 hours proving thousands of examples to back that up yet with his side he has.............. oh yah wikipedia which is edited by people such as himself.
COME ON!!!!!!
Please be respectful of the "Topic" of this Thread…..
This is Colombo's Thread, about his Dead Blower and what he may do next.
Please Don't Trash another Thread. If you Guys what to Argue about "Turbo Lag" or who has the Biggest Dick, then Start another Thread of your Own.
Please be respectful of the "Topic" of this Thread…..
This is Colombo's Thread, about his Dead Blower and what he may do next.
Please Don't Trash another Thread. If you Guys what to Argue about "Turbo Lag" or who has the Biggest Dick, then Start another Thread of your Own.
Last edited by jerryd87; 11-20-2013 at 03:21 PM.