Larger injectors...with Vortech's R4 program
 

Has any one with a Vortech installed larger injectors and controlled them with the R4 program ? Or ...installed larger injectors and did a TS reflash to control them ?....Bill

No one has swapped injectors with a Vortech yet ?

I was actually thinking about doing that and a Walbro and getting rid of the auxilary pump, but i dont know if anyone has done it, or if it even works yet....

Bill, why do you want to get larger injectors? If you want more fuel you can just change the FMU. I know Vortech makes several different ones. The highest I have seen so far is 12:1. I am running rich with the 2.87 pulley and the 8:1.

The preasure to the injector is very high , and sooner or later the injectors will fail . Thats why you most of the guys are putting in a return line , larger injectors , and new fuel pump . At WOT are aux fuel pump is putting upwards of 90psi to the injectors . All though they can handle it for now , they are not designed for it

I am not familiar with the R4 software. But if the R4 software can do an across the board constant MAF adjustment, then it can scale the injectors. Does the R4 take a MAF signal?

If not...then it's time to ditch the R4 and FMU for an eManage, bigger pump, and upgraded return style fuel system. :)

Yes it has MAF signal and can be adjusted across the board . you start with a #10 in each cell of the fuel map . A 10 means no change to the stock ECU . Need more fuel at that rpm and boost or vacuum range....you go to lets say a 10.2.....if you need less fuel....9.8 . Hope Im explaining it right or so you can understand it

R4
 

I think what g asked is whether the R4 unit comes with a "MAP" input. He knows it has a MAF input and modification capablity. With higher CFM offered by a yet even smaller pulley and larger injectors the MAF will saturate and be clipped to ~5v. Above that some other method for mapping A/F is then needed. Fro GReddy it's the eManage, for PE its a reflash, for APS its a unichip , for Phunk its a full HKS unit.

In order to scale an injector, you need to do a MAF sensor adjustment. You need to trick the ECU into thinking there is less air coming into the engine....so the ECU will reduce IPW.

Since I doubt the Splitsecond box can initiate an injector pulse, you woulndt be able to physically reduce IPW, without a MAF adjustment. That is what I was refering to. :)

I see..and that is where I get lost in it all . Dont enough about this stuff . But Im learning more all the time . So if I stay maybe with the 380 injectors...I'll be able to adjust them in the R4.. but if I go with big injectors...I may not be able to ?

Maybe....depending on the capabilities of the Spiltsecond box and the R4 sofrware. Sounds like G3 said it does have a MAF input and output....that's all you need to make the adjustment.

So how is the SS box adjusting the fuel if it cant reduce or increase IPW ?

MAF etc.
 

Yes sorry you did ask about MAF "modification" capablity on the R4. However; depending how high a boost (smaller pulley) booger goes with a built long bloock , the OEM MAF remap game falls short. The OEM MAF saturates somewere between 10 and 18 psi i beleive. So a preffered method is to take MAP (under boost) and intercept the injector harness. If the Piggyback unit has at least a 1.5bar MAP senesor, you'd be covered. Doesn't the eManage provide a MAP input function?

Another method is replacement of higher flowing MAF and then re-scaleing MAP to ECU signal. However; I believe most of the current VQ "big boosters" have resorted to the MAP method in one form or another (in additon to MAF or replacement of MAF altogether, aka phunk).

R4
 

I think R4 does it by altering (re-mapping) the MAF output to the OEM ECU. The Risng rate regulator (8:1) does the heavy lifting (fuel boositng) and the R4 is used to fine tune , by fooling the ECU. At some point the OEM MAF will reaches saturation, though not at you current boost levels. FYI splitsecond's website ahs good info about their products (tuned via R4 software).

At most...I plan on just the 2.87 pulley .Which at 7,000rpm should be about 11 to12lb's of boost . I think thats well with in reach of what the R4 can do . My thought was just to reduce the psi in the injectors , wih larger injectors . So they will last and be more reliable...Bill

I know the eManage adds fuel by actually driving the injectors...so it can increase IPW, but can't reduce it. Reduction is handled by MAF....but in an F/I situation, there is never a need to decrease fuel below the stock threshold...except to scale the injectors for drivablitity.

With the Split second, I honestly dont know if it has injector drivers. If it does...then it adds fuel via increased IPW. If not, then it adds fuel via MAF adjustment...which is a really bad solution...since MAF manipulation results in unwanted timing advance.

Hope that didnt confuse you. :)

Somebody give gq a copy of the r4 software:D

gq_626 send me your email

This is a great thread, because I want to do the same thing with my Vortech.

I actually emailed TS about this and they said they could do the mapping for the pe 380's. (which we all already know)

They also said that RC's are completely wrong for our car, they don't have enough ports, and they don't flow well until they're opened up.

They also said that our ecu can't be tuned to control the PE 510's.

So what we really need is for someone to test out the r4 solution, so where is DFW350z? Didn't he already do this?

R4 and reflash
 

Note the main reason why either an SS controller(R4) or an ECU reflash can only compensate for <500cc injectors is that the MAF runs out of range and hits 5v (under WOT , high rpm and boost). There is nothing R4 or the ECU can do to adjust A/F beyond this point. The only plausible method for driving the larger injectors and fully mapping A/F is either by full ECU replacement , a piggyback unit that can intercept and adapt the 6 injector control signals. The Greddy Emanage is of the second method. The SS box "only adapts MAF" and is not adequate for high boosting >~10psi. Note if the OEM ECU had a high bar ~>1bar MAP input , it could be re-flashed and used in alone. However; it has no MAP whatsoever, only a limited MAF.