Crawford Plenum Spacer - $29!!!!
01-30-2005, 06:04 AM
#81
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Originally posted by uro279
Not to be a stickler but since we're using the scientific approach:
1). Who are 'others'?
2). What have they actually proved? How is it documented? I have been on this board since '02, and have not seen actual reports on this. I've heard people state this and that, but no actual hard numbers.
Also, 300hp is not that far off from 287. You could almost include it within the margin of error. But I acknowledge your point.
Regardless of our feeling about the interviewer, at least he had credentials, whereas many other's state claims. And with all the motors blowin up, and all the FI have upgraded fuel pumps, at what point do you actually NEED to upgrade and still be safe? That has also never been answered.
Not to be a stickler but since we're using the scientific approach:
1). Who are 'others'?
2). What have they actually proved? How is it documented? I have been on this board since '02, and have not seen actual reports on this. I've heard people state this and that, but no actual hard numbers.
Also, 300hp is not that far off from 287. You could almost include it within the margin of error. But I acknowledge your point.
Regardless of our feeling about the interviewer, at least he had credentials, whereas many other's state claims. And with all the motors blowin up, and all the FI have upgraded fuel pumps, at what point do you actually NEED to upgrade and still be safe? That has also never been answered.
The only way to prove it is to run the car hard for more than 10 seconds, that's what the guy in the article stated, anyone with 300hp that runs the car more than 10 seconds is going to have fuel issues.
Right, 300 isn't far at all from stock crank hp. I'm beginning to wonder if he meant 300rwhp.
I agree, I would believe what he said, IF, there weren't people on this forum proving it wrong. About the FI'd motors blowing up, no one is really sure at this point how much the motor can take. Because there haven't been any blown motors since we got news of the crank and cam angle sensor wire problem. Once some kits with shielded crank and cam angle sensor wires are up and running, we'll know how much the VQ35DE can take before you have short-term problems (running a little over stock boost is going to cause a long-term problem, but be ok for the short-term (until you can get pistons and rods, etc.)). Right, no one knows exactly when you need to upgrade the fuel pump to be safe, only time will tell.
Just looked...Z350lover and Sentry65 are over 300hp and haven't addressed fuel issues. Those were just two real quick.
Last edited by nis350ztt; 01-30-2005 at 06:09 AM.
01-30-2005, 06:15 AM
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Originally posted by nis350ztt
The 'others' are anyone that's over 300hp and posted on that thread about the fuel, let me try to find one or two specific people who are over 300hp and have no problems, heck, Doug @ Crawford is at 300rwhp (with the heads and cams they are making) and hasn't addressed fuel AFAIK, only a Technosquare reflash.
The only way to prove it is to run the car hard for more than 10 seconds, that's what the guy in the article stated, anyone with 300hp that runs the car more than 10 seconds is going to have fuel issues.
Right, 300 isn't far at all from stock crank hp. I'm beginning to wonder if he meant 300rwhp.
I agree, I would believe what he said, IF, there weren't people on this forum proving it wrong. About the FI'd motors blowing up, no one is really sure at this point how much the motor can take. Because there haven't been any blown motors since we got news of the crank and cam angle sensor wire problem. Once some kits with shielded crank and cam angle sensor wires are up and running, we'll know how much the VQ35DE can take before you have short-term problems (running a little over stock boost is going to cause a long-term problem, but be ok for the short-term (until you can get pistons and rods, etc.)). Right, no one knows exactly when you need to upgrade the fuel pump to be safe, only time will tell.
Just looked...Z350lover and Sentry65 are over 300hp and haven't addressed fuel issues. Those were just two real quick.
The 'others' are anyone that's over 300hp and posted on that thread about the fuel, let me try to find one or two specific people who are over 300hp and have no problems, heck, Doug @ Crawford is at 300rwhp (with the heads and cams they are making) and hasn't addressed fuel AFAIK, only a Technosquare reflash.
The only way to prove it is to run the car hard for more than 10 seconds, that's what the guy in the article stated, anyone with 300hp that runs the car more than 10 seconds is going to have fuel issues.
Right, 300 isn't far at all from stock crank hp. I'm beginning to wonder if he meant 300rwhp.
I agree, I would believe what he said, IF, there weren't people on this forum proving it wrong. About the FI'd motors blowing up, no one is really sure at this point how much the motor can take. Because there haven't been any blown motors since we got news of the crank and cam angle sensor wire problem. Once some kits with shielded crank and cam angle sensor wires are up and running, we'll know how much the VQ35DE can take before you have short-term problems (running a little over stock boost is going to cause a long-term problem, but be ok for the short-term (until you can get pistons and rods, etc.)). Right, no one knows exactly when you need to upgrade the fuel pump to be safe, only time will tell.
Just looked...Z350lover and Sentry65 are over 300hp and haven't addressed fuel issues. Those were just two real quick.
And no, I don't believe he meant 300whp because that is a long way from 'not much more than stock'.
01-30-2005, 06:27 AM
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Originally posted by uro279
Good. Keep it comin. it's only discussions like these with thoughtful analysis that will create more questions, analysis, more hard data, more R&D, and ultimately more reliable upgrades.
And no, I don't believe he meant 300whp because that is a long way from 'not much more than stock'.
Good. Keep it comin. it's only discussions like these with thoughtful analysis that will create more questions, analysis, more hard data, more R&D, and ultimately more reliable upgrades.
And no, I don't believe he meant 300whp because that is a long way from 'not much more than stock'.
01-30-2005, 06:28 AM
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zzzya - only thing wrong with your post is that I don't recall a single person ever buying the Esprit one.....
Also (and I do not mean to come off in a condescending way), where did you learn that the best plenum design would have equal volume for all runners? it might sound logically correct in a paper oriented study, but when you put this on the bench, you quickly find this is not how it needs to be to be ideal.
As I mentioned, the volume issue is the single biggest issue the plenum has and to this end, the spacer will work very well (I won't get into tapered vs non tapered as I have not seen a tapered one in front of me before nor tried to install one.
There are several other areas of concern within the stock plenum as well - the Crawford and Kinetix addresses some of them with their existing design (cannot comment on the new cast one). The spacer does not address any of them, but allows the user or with the helpof a machinist (like those of us building heads/motors) do it themselves and still keep the strut brace. There are other areas that none of the options address at all. This is where the experience of a good engine builder, lots of trial and error and lot's of time and resources comes into play. I personally chose this last path, though I understand it's not for everyone (or maybe anyone - it's just how I chose to do it). I think the difference between the route I have chosen to go vs others is that I have no intention at this tim to offer the setup we do for sale, as it is simply too labor intensive to be worthwhile from a money making perspective
In short, this thread is going no place. I like Chris alot, and we chat all the time on IM, and I always appreciate his comments and information about Doug. I know just from these conversations that Crawford is a straight up company that makes some really nice products, and has spent a good amount of time studying what they do before they sell it. However, I think his zeal to defend Crawford (which I totally understand) is often not phrased with as much tact as it could have been (as in this case). What we must remember is that typing posts back and forth to each other on the internet is not like having a conversation on the phone or in person. We cannot tell the persons true attitude, or intentions by reading words on a page.
In short, we have a few options right now, and it is up to the owners to decide what they want and what they don't. Both the spacers and the plenums seek to solve a weak point in the stock design of the car, and both do a reasonably good job. For those looking for more than that however, it won't matter which you start off with, as there is considerably more work to be done to either one
I think what we are all (hopefully) starting to see, is that this is not a car where one can simply ask - what's the best "insert your part here". There are several good versions of nearly everything out there for the car, and the right amount of research beforehand, coupled with a willingness to play around with things (ecu for example) is what will yield the best overall balance of performance and power. That is exactly why I decided to simply have this stuff done on my own, using the same people in the industry I have used on all my other cars in the past. Others surely won't want to go this route, as they are not necessarily interested in learning why something does or does not work, and would rather purchase items shown to work well together, and call it a day - to each their own; let's not lose site of that.
As for the fuel issue, I'll be addressing that first hand on my own car and of course report the findings. I suspect there will be some tweaking we are going to need to do. I'll elaborate more at the appropriate time
Adam
Also (and I do not mean to come off in a condescending way), where did you learn that the best plenum design would have equal volume for all runners? it might sound logically correct in a paper oriented study, but when you put this on the bench, you quickly find this is not how it needs to be to be ideal.
As I mentioned, the volume issue is the single biggest issue the plenum has and to this end, the spacer will work very well (I won't get into tapered vs non tapered as I have not seen a tapered one in front of me before nor tried to install one.
There are several other areas of concern within the stock plenum as well - the Crawford and Kinetix addresses some of them with their existing design (cannot comment on the new cast one). The spacer does not address any of them, but allows the user or with the helpof a machinist (like those of us building heads/motors) do it themselves and still keep the strut brace. There are other areas that none of the options address at all. This is where the experience of a good engine builder, lots of trial and error and lot's of time and resources comes into play. I personally chose this last path, though I understand it's not for everyone (or maybe anyone - it's just how I chose to do it). I think the difference between the route I have chosen to go vs others is that I have no intention at this tim to offer the setup we do for sale, as it is simply too labor intensive to be worthwhile from a money making perspective
In short, this thread is going no place. I like Chris alot, and we chat all the time on IM, and I always appreciate his comments and information about Doug. I know just from these conversations that Crawford is a straight up company that makes some really nice products, and has spent a good amount of time studying what they do before they sell it. However, I think his zeal to defend Crawford (which I totally understand) is often not phrased with as much tact as it could have been (as in this case). What we must remember is that typing posts back and forth to each other on the internet is not like having a conversation on the phone or in person. We cannot tell the persons true attitude, or intentions by reading words on a page.
In short, we have a few options right now, and it is up to the owners to decide what they want and what they don't. Both the spacers and the plenums seek to solve a weak point in the stock design of the car, and both do a reasonably good job. For those looking for more than that however, it won't matter which you start off with, as there is considerably more work to be done to either one
I think what we are all (hopefully) starting to see, is that this is not a car where one can simply ask - what's the best "insert your part here". There are several good versions of nearly everything out there for the car, and the right amount of research beforehand, coupled with a willingness to play around with things (ecu for example) is what will yield the best overall balance of performance and power. That is exactly why I decided to simply have this stuff done on my own, using the same people in the industry I have used on all my other cars in the past. Others surely won't want to go this route, as they are not necessarily interested in learning why something does or does not work, and would rather purchase items shown to work well together, and call it a day - to each their own; let's not lose site of that.
As for the fuel issue, I'll be addressing that first hand on my own car and of course report the findings. I suspect there will be some tweaking we are going to need to do. I'll elaborate more at the appropriate time
Adam
Last edited by Z1 Performance; 01-30-2005 at 06:31 AM.
01-30-2005, 06:44 AM
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Originally posted by Z1 Performance
zzzya - only thing wrong with your post is that I don't recall a single person ever buying the Esprit one.....
Also (and I do not mean to come off in a condescending way), where did you learn that the best plenum design would have equal volume for all runners? it might sound logically correct in a paper oriented study, but when you put this on the bench, you quickly find this is not how it needs to be to be ideal.
As I mentioned, the volume issue is the single biggest issue the plenum has and to this end, the spacer will work very well (I won't get into tapered vs non tapered as I have not seen a tapered one in front of me before nor tried to install one.
There are several other areas of concern within the stock plenum as well - the Crawford and Kinetix addresses some of them with their existing design (cannot comment on the new cast one). The spacer does not address any of them, but allows the user or with the helpof a machinist (like those of us building heads/motors) do it themselves and still keep the strut brace. There are other areas that none of the options address at all. This is where the experience of a good engine builder, lots of trial and error and lot's of time and resources comes into play. I personally chose this last path, though I understand it's not for everyone (or maybe anyone - it's just how I chose to do it). I think the difference between the route I have chosen to go vs others is that I have no intention at this tim to offer the setup we do for sale, as it is simply too labor intensive to be worthwhile from a money making perspective
In short, this thread is going no place. I like Chris alot, and we chat all the time on IM, and I always appreciate his comments and information about Doug. I know just from these conversations that Crawford is a straight up company that makes some really nice products, and has spent a good amount of time studying what they do before they sell it. However, I think his zeal to defend Crawford (which I totally understand) is often not phrased with as much tact as it could have been (as in this case). What we must remember is that typing posts back and forth to each other on the internet is not like having a conversation on the phone or in person. We cannot tell the persons true attitude, or intentions by reading words on a page.
In short, we have a few options right now, and it is up to the owners to decide what they want and what they don't. Both the spacers and the plenums seek to solve a weak point in the stock design of the car, and both do a reasonably good job. For those looking for more than that however, it won't matter which you start off with, as there is considerably more work to be done to either one
I think what we are all (hopefully) starting to see, is that this is not a car where one can simply ask - what's the best "insert your part here". There are several good versions of nearly everything out there for the car, and the right amount of research beforehand, coupled with a willingness to play around with things (ecu for example) is what will yield the best overall balance of performance and power. That is exactly why I decided to simply have this stuff done on my own, using the same people in the industry I have used on all my other cars in the past. Others surely won't want to go this route, as they are not necessarily interested in learning why something does or does not work, and would rather purchase items shown to work well together, and call it a day - to each their own; let's not lose site of that.
As for the fuel issue, I'll be addressing that first hand on my own car and of course report the findings. I suspect there will be some tweaking we are going to need to do. I'll elaborate more at the appropriate time
Adam
zzzya - only thing wrong with your post is that I don't recall a single person ever buying the Esprit one.....
Also (and I do not mean to come off in a condescending way), where did you learn that the best plenum design would have equal volume for all runners? it might sound logically correct in a paper oriented study, but when you put this on the bench, you quickly find this is not how it needs to be to be ideal.
As I mentioned, the volume issue is the single biggest issue the plenum has and to this end, the spacer will work very well (I won't get into tapered vs non tapered as I have not seen a tapered one in front of me before nor tried to install one.
There are several other areas of concern within the stock plenum as well - the Crawford and Kinetix addresses some of them with their existing design (cannot comment on the new cast one). The spacer does not address any of them, but allows the user or with the helpof a machinist (like those of us building heads/motors) do it themselves and still keep the strut brace. There are other areas that none of the options address at all. This is where the experience of a good engine builder, lots of trial and error and lot's of time and resources comes into play. I personally chose this last path, though I understand it's not for everyone (or maybe anyone - it's just how I chose to do it). I think the difference between the route I have chosen to go vs others is that I have no intention at this tim to offer the setup we do for sale, as it is simply too labor intensive to be worthwhile from a money making perspective
In short, this thread is going no place. I like Chris alot, and we chat all the time on IM, and I always appreciate his comments and information about Doug. I know just from these conversations that Crawford is a straight up company that makes some really nice products, and has spent a good amount of time studying what they do before they sell it. However, I think his zeal to defend Crawford (which I totally understand) is often not phrased with as much tact as it could have been (as in this case). What we must remember is that typing posts back and forth to each other on the internet is not like having a conversation on the phone or in person. We cannot tell the persons true attitude, or intentions by reading words on a page.
In short, we have a few options right now, and it is up to the owners to decide what they want and what they don't. Both the spacers and the plenums seek to solve a weak point in the stock design of the car, and both do a reasonably good job. For those looking for more than that however, it won't matter which you start off with, as there is considerably more work to be done to either one
I think what we are all (hopefully) starting to see, is that this is not a car where one can simply ask - what's the best "insert your part here". There are several good versions of nearly everything out there for the car, and the right amount of research beforehand, coupled with a willingness to play around with things (ecu for example) is what will yield the best overall balance of performance and power. That is exactly why I decided to simply have this stuff done on my own, using the same people in the industry I have used on all my other cars in the past. Others surely won't want to go this route, as they are not necessarily interested in learning why something does or does not work, and would rather purchase items shown to work well together, and call it a day - to each their own; let's not lose site of that.
As for the fuel issue, I'll be addressing that first hand on my own car and of course report the findings. I suspect there will be some tweaking we are going to need to do. I'll elaborate more at the appropriate time
Adam
later.
01-30-2005, 07:10 AM
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Originally posted by Z1 Performance
Also (and I do not mean to come off in a condescending way), where did you learn that the best plenum design would have equal volume for all runners? it might sound logically correct in a paper oriented study, but when you put this on the bench, you quickly find this is not how it needs to be to be ideal.
Adam
Also (and I do not mean to come off in a condescending way), where did you learn that the best plenum design would have equal volume for all runners? it might sound logically correct in a paper oriented study, but when you put this on the bench, you quickly find this is not how it needs to be to be ideal.
Adam
01-30-2005, 08:03 AM
#87
Thought I would chime in about plenum spacers,
For Grand Am Cup the rules reads that gaskets are open...menaing you can kmake your own gaskets and doesnt give a thickness.......We ran a thicker "gasket" modeled after the Esprit akum spacer kit.
On a fully adjustable engine mang system .....it made about
1- 3 HP.
We were asked to remove it from by tech and when we went back to the dyno we found more power without it.
A new plenum will yield greater rewards than the spacers.
Just my 2 cents from our racing exp in the Grand Am Cup series with our 350Z's.
BJ@350EVO.com
For Grand Am Cup the rules reads that gaskets are open...menaing you can kmake your own gaskets and doesnt give a thickness.......We ran a thicker "gasket" modeled after the Esprit akum spacer kit.
On a fully adjustable engine mang system .....it made about
1- 3 HP.
We were asked to remove it from by tech and when we went back to the dyno we found more power without it.
A new plenum will yield greater rewards than the spacers.
Just my 2 cents from our racing exp in the Grand Am Cup series with our 350Z's.
BJ@350EVO.com
01-30-2005, 08:57 AM
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I think we need to take a step back and realize that our cars may react differently to the same mods. Especially at this point where everyone has done different modifications. If your mods don't work together, you'll end up losing power. I remember seeing others make power with a long tube intake and yet others make power with a crawford plenum. But when the two were put together, the gains were not as impressive.
If we trust a dyno to give us a measure of power, rather than butt dynos, then the best we can hope with a new mod is to see consistent gains over a previous setup on multiple runs. All I can conclude from my recent dynos, is that the spacer consistently made about 5 HP over the Crawford in the high RPM ranges ON MY CAR with MY MODS. That's why I plotted all the dyno runs. I won't argue that a stack of gaskets didn't make power on one of the Crawford cars, but in my mind I'm convinced that the spacer made power on my car. Interestingly, when Hydrazine initially tested various spacers on his car, he saw gains in the same RPM ranges (thread is in 350zmotoring).
Anyway, I think both the spacer and Crawford plenum are great products. I'm running both simultaneously, and the car feels great. If I had more $$ right now, I'd get dyno runs on the same dynapack again, and on the dynojet where I tested previously.
If we trust a dyno to give us a measure of power, rather than butt dynos, then the best we can hope with a new mod is to see consistent gains over a previous setup on multiple runs. All I can conclude from my recent dynos, is that the spacer consistently made about 5 HP over the Crawford in the high RPM ranges ON MY CAR with MY MODS. That's why I plotted all the dyno runs. I won't argue that a stack of gaskets didn't make power on one of the Crawford cars, but in my mind I'm convinced that the spacer made power on my car. Interestingly, when Hydrazine initially tested various spacers on his car, he saw gains in the same RPM ranges (thread is in 350zmotoring).
Anyway, I think both the spacer and Crawford plenum are great products. I'm running both simultaneously, and the car feels great. If I had more $$ right now, I'd get dyno runs on the same dynapack again, and on the dynojet where I tested previously.
01-30-2005, 09:26 AM
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Why would equal across front to back be required for good power?
The air does not come into the plenum at the middle and then go out evenly from there, it comes in from the back and goes forward. For an even amount of air to get to the front, you would need more volume at the back. Wedge spacers won't address this, neither will a large area added to the front of an otherwise stock plenum.
Chris
The air does not come into the plenum at the middle and then go out evenly from there, it comes in from the back and goes forward. For an even amount of air to get to the front, you would need more volume at the back. Wedge spacers won't address this, neither will a large area added to the front of an otherwise stock plenum.
Chris
01-30-2005, 11:03 AM
#91
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Originally posted by HyperSprite
Why would equal across front to back be required for good power?
The air does not come into the plenum at the middle and then go out evenly from there, it comes in from the back and goes forward. For an even amount of air to get to the front, you would need more volume at the back. Wedge spacers won't address this, neither will a large area added to the front of an otherwise stock plenum.
Chris
Why would equal across front to back be required for good power?
The air does not come into the plenum at the middle and then go out evenly from there, it comes in from the back and goes forward. For an even amount of air to get to the front, you would need more volume at the back. Wedge spacers won't address this, neither will a large area added to the front of an otherwise stock plenum.
Chris
By increasing the front and overall total capacity, the distribution problem was resolved...
For a better understanding, check out this video.
http://www.crawfordz.com/support/crawford2.wmv
01-30-2005, 03:51 PM
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Originally posted by uro279
That's interesting, because in the latest Sports Z mag, they interviewed someone from performance Nissan's team, and he said that he would have liked the stock plenum to have been more like Crawford's. (Great tech info.. It's the same interview where they talked about the stock fuel pumps not be able to handle much more that stock HP/TQ, therefore making this a potential prob for reliability).
That's interesting, because in the latest Sports Z mag, they interviewed someone from performance Nissan's team, and he said that he would have liked the stock plenum to have been more like Crawford's. (Great tech info.. It's the same interview where they talked about the stock fuel pumps not be able to handle much more that stock HP/TQ, therefore making this a potential prob for reliability).
01-30-2005, 04:27 PM
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Originally posted by PhoenixINX
Then why does a flow-bench contradict what you're saying here?
By increasing the front and overall total capacity, the distribution problem was resolved...
For a better understanding, check out this video.
http://www.crawfordz.com/support/crawford2.wmv
Then why does a flow-bench contradict what you're saying here?
By increasing the front and overall total capacity, the distribution problem was resolved...
For a better understanding, check out this video.
http://www.crawfordz.com/support/crawford2.wmv
01-30-2005, 07:55 PM
#94
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Originally posted by copba1t
Thank you for that clip, it helped me better understand what is going on inside the plenum. Too bad it took 5 pages of "snake oil" talk to get to this point, but I think we are on the right track now =)
Thank you for that clip, it helped me better understand what is going on inside the plenum. Too bad it took 5 pages of "snake oil" talk to get to this point, but I think we are on the right track now =)
01-31-2005, 02:32 PM
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Originally posted by Jason@Performance
So I had to make a 12 pack to purchase on our web site...
http://performancenissanparts.com/ca...oducts_id=3063
So I had to make a 12 pack to purchase on our web site...
http://performancenissanparts.com/ca...oducts_id=3063
01-31-2005, 03:45 PM
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What about the spacers for the bolts down the center, with 12 gaskets are you guys stuffing RTV in there, maybe some wine corks cut in half and drilled out?
Chris
Chris
02-01-2005, 10:15 AM
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Heh, you guys are a riot, but if my product was about to become obsolete, I would rather spend my time coming up with the next great mod, instead of beating a dead horse 
02-01-2005, 10:22 AM
#99
Originally posted by Jason@Performance
So I had to make a 12 pack to purchase on our web site...
http://performancenissanparts.com/ca...oducts_id=3063
So I had to make a 12 pack to purchase on our web site...
http://performancenissanparts.com/ca...oducts_id=3063
hehe it MUST be good
02-01-2005, 11:25 AM
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what entertaining reading this afternoon. I'm a strong believer in the Crawford products because I have seen proven results via dyno runs on my car for each addition (plenum, cats, and headers were all bought separately). While Chris (PhoenixINX) comes off annoying at times, I don't think it is fair to judge the product based on his posts.
The Crawford plenum has proven results time and again by various people on this forum, as has the Kinetix. The spacer is yet to be proven. I'm sorry, one set of dynos presented by someone who is pushing the part doesn't count. Though, I will remain open minded and hope to see some independent dynos in the future to verify initial testing.
If gains can be recreated by the 350Z community, the spacer offers a cheaper alternative to aftermarket plenums, BUT does not address other stock plenum shortcomings. In the end, you get what you pay for and an aftermarket plenum is going to give you more benefit.. hence the higher price tag.
Various comments...
Zivman said...
So, if that is what you can afford and it makes you happy, great. I think its pretty much proven the more power you squeeze out of a type of mod, the more (exponentially) it costs to get that power. Personally, I'm the type that would rather wait a few more months and get as much gain as possible. As for the headers (sorry a bit off topic), anyone who does not get the Crawford headers has wasted effort. They are, without a doubt, the best headers on the market. If you are going to the trouble of changing headers (and they are a colossal PITA), do yourself a favor and get the best the first time.
Zzzya said...
Entirely untrue... I had the Crawford plenum long before I put my Vortech on. When we supercharged and tuned the car, we found I was making more boost and HP than cars without a plenum upgrade. My Z runs right at 9lbs of boost with the Crawford and using the stock Vortech 3.33" pulley. While the statement above sounds logical, this example proves the opposite effect to be true... at least with these particular parts.
Copba1t said...
Whoever you are, you probably just need to leave this forum now and never come back. Crawford Z Car service has been in business a long time (probably longer than you've been alive) and has built a reputation on offering top notch service and quality parts. I can understand why you reacted as you did to Chris's posts, but applying your "special" form of rcommentary to the whole company is completely uncalled for. I've met the entire Crawford gang in person and have to say Randy, whose post you were responding to, is one of the nicest and most trustworthy people you could ever want to meet. There is no "act" there... people are people and some come across differently than others. In your case, every post makes you appear to be a complete a$$.
The Crawford plenum has proven results time and again by various people on this forum, as has the Kinetix. The spacer is yet to be proven. I'm sorry, one set of dynos presented by someone who is pushing the part doesn't count. Though, I will remain open minded and hope to see some independent dynos in the future to verify initial testing.
If gains can be recreated by the 350Z community, the spacer offers a cheaper alternative to aftermarket plenums, BUT does not address other stock plenum shortcomings. In the end, you get what you pay for and an aftermarket plenum is going to give you more benefit.. hence the higher price tag.
Various comments...
Zivman said...
I look at it like this. Yes, I believe crawford offers the best gains, but at a price. When I was looking at headers, I believe 100% that the crawfords were the ones to get for the best gains. problem is, I couldn't justify the price when I could get the topspeed headers for a fraction of the price and maybe get 1/2-2/3 the gains. Same applies to the plenum, only the price difference isn't as significant.
Zzzya said...
If they put a Crawford plenum or spacer on the car, they would loose boost due to the increase in plenum volume, which may not be what they want since they have such good control over fuel management and/or they may be turning their turbines as fast as they can.
Copba1t said...
Yea, I think I understand. Some companies needs someone to do their dirty work (as in sending out someone to discredit the competition), then just try to pass it off as them being crazy and apologize for their supposedly innocent actions. Some people will see through that act though, because if you do not prevent those actions then that means you support them.