drozzy

Hey guys, very simply put I daily drive my Z from mid-May to mid-October to and from work, with some fun rides around nearby country roads in evenings and weekends totaling roughly 5,000 km (3,100 mi) a year... now it's go/no-go time on a new 86. My Z has 69,770 km on it (43,330 mi) and I'm considering the 86 due to fuel economy and overall practicality without losing above average grip/handling. The staggered RAYSv2 are on their 3rd set of RE050A's with 8/32 left on the fronts and 7/32 left on the rears. Brembos are OEM, 2nd set of pads with 6mm left on the fronts and 7mm left on the rears. 99% flawless on the outside, same for the interior... I have all the OEM parts for the few bolt-on mods I had done to the car since picking it up in October 2013 except for OEM sways, brake lines and cat-back.

Next year, new tires and new rotors & pads on the Brembos would be what... $3,000-4,000 CAD? I think that's even on the optimistic side of things. My wife cringes when I tell her... she thinks I might as well own a Porsche (completely discounting the last 3.5 years of no reliability issues, NONE!!). Add the gas aspect to it, acknowledge that 'powah' isn't as important as when I was in my 20's and we have a 2006 350Z vs. 2017 86 conversation.

So that 3-4K in maintenance would instead go towards a small down payment along with a 95% stock, low mileage Silverstone '06 Grand Touring 5AT as a trade-in. The Toyota dealership is a 5 min drive from home.


For those of you who have driven the 2017 BRZs/86s with reinforced chassis / stiffer sway bars than 13-16, how did you find the ride & handling compared to the Z? Is the decrease in torque a complete buzzkill in the 30 to 80 mph acceleration range?

Thanks guys, I appreciate the feedback...

MicVelo

I have NOT driven the newest version of the FR-S/BRZ but the few pre-name-change versions that I did drive, will say this: Really fun car. Nice P:W ratio and a very tossable, easy to drive car. So from that respect, if you're on the market for a new sporty coupe, it's well worth the relative low price.

BUT... it's not a Z. Not saying this just because I'm a total Z-dork but because I truly feel that way. There's "something" about a Z that just gets under your skin if you're a car person. Good power, good handling (both of which are adequate in stock form and easy to light up with help from the aftermarket.)

Since the demise of my "collectable Z", I've been out searching for something to replace it... old, new, in-between. Nope, keep coming back to Zs. I think you might regret it somewhere down the road.

I'd shop around for the replacement stuff, you'll find it a lot cheaper than what you mentioned - even in Canada. Bite that bullet when you get to needing them and just chalk it up to "maintenance". Not to rebuke your wife but while a bit higher to get parts for it over "regular cars", a Z will NEVER compare unfavorably to the cost of owning a Porsche. I've looked... and no thanks.

But, you can't really go wrong with updating to an 86 so you have to go with your gut on this one.

Just my $.02 (USD )

zakmartin

Welcome to the forums. I just think it's kind of funny that the first time you post to a 350Z website is to say you want to get rid of your 350Z and ask for opinions about buying a new Toyota/Subaru.

drozzy

Thanks. And yes I know it's a strange 'hello' to forum members, pardon the weirdness. As it turns out -we just finished dinner- the Z won the battle (argument). Saving marginally on gas (lots of 45-55 mph zones with few lights along my commute) and going to bed with the idea of owning a bulletproof Toyota product with warranty obligations is not enough.

Not enough, because A) the Z has a good reliability track record at home and B) I agreed to trade in my V6 sedan at the end of the payment schedule for a lightly used 4 cyl car to be determined. So in a way, I put a death countdown on my 2013 G37xS at just over 3 years to go... to save the Z.

I started out with a '94 Mazda MX-6 Mystere V6 LS (03-06), then had a '00 Maxima SE (06-10), upgraded to an '06 G35x sedan in April 2010 which I blew thousands on in terms of breathing mods, wheels/tires and audio, then traded it completely modded (Stillen short ram, Motordyne plenum spacer, DC headers, Berk HFCs, Stillen gen2 cat-back, Uprev dyno tune @ Advance Powerhouse in T.O.) for that 2013 G sedan last year. They actually had it on the lot about a month before it sold, it had 213,000 km on the clock (bought @ 65,000 km). I bought the Z during the G35-is-finally-paid-off era, Fall '13. First time having two cars, and I'm lucky to get to keep a 2nd one with a little girl due at the end of June... the Z will become my 'break time' weapon, at least during the 9 months of parental leave I'm set to take from work.

Name is Jacques. Nice to meet you guys. I actually showed MicVelo's post to my wife on the laptop, she stopped after the end of the 2nd paragraph and laughed... "that's so you! don't you spend too much time on there".

dboyzalter

iTrader: (3)

Mic always has good posts...

Have you ever attended a driving school?

bealljk

iTrader: (13)

OP,
I'm weird and I have different opinions on money and life ... but heres an opinion...

Are toyotas really bullet proof? It seems like theyre being recalled left & right?
and if they're bullet proof than you wont need a warranty...

unless you drive 200+ miles a day, dont base a $20-$30k financial decision on gas mileage ... and if you're driving that much than a sports car isnt for this reason.

why would you take out payments on a nice car (the 3.7G)only to get it paid off so you can trade it in and take out more payments on another car? I don't know how Canada is but car payments keep people poor. After further reading your post, it seems like you're perfectly fine being on the car-payment-train...

If it was me (and my car-test driving experience is minimal) I love my z and I'll own it forever - way too much in it (emotionally and financially) and I'll never get enough for it! I got my f150 for daily & bad weather and I got my z for the spirited runs.

MicVelo

Well, in all honesty, you can tell your wife (or maybe you shouldn't) that I AM a "Z-Lifer" - having started working on my 10, going on 11, Z-car obsession 39 years ago - and so I have a wee bit of bias. Hahahahaha.

drozzy

Negative. I will not be tempted by autoX, as I have two hobbies that occupy the non-family time I have to myself (squash & hockey). Roughly 6-7 of 24 miles on my commute are sports car friendly, and I need to drive the Z more throughout the year to balance out the mileage with the G. Shooting for 14,000 km on the G, 5,000 km on the Z every year... driving school would have a ripple effect and upset the long term budget.

I hear ya. Keep in mind the trade-in / more payments scenario was with a Z vs. 86 swap... not happening, as of a few hours ago lol. Going forward, the G sedan will get traded in for something slighter higher in value so I can just pay the small difference at the moment of trade-in, hence the need for me to daily drive the Z in the summer --> give the G's odometer a break. The commute is 24 miles one way, 5 days a week. The Z is paid off, her 2016 Mazda CX-5 GT Tech is paid off, and I've got a bit over 3 years to go on paying off the 2013 G. There's the pool, but that's another conversation.

Haha yeah it's best she doesn't hear about all the FI projects on here and stuff, I don't want to give her the wrong idea about this forum.

dkmura

iTrader: (64)

One more suggestion: when in comes time to replace those BS RE050s, I'd suggest you look at the new generation of all-season high performance tires. I live in Colorado and have tested several all-season tires at the racetrack in the past. No, they're not gumballs by any means, but they were predictable, with slip angles and slowly diminishing grip that was readable. I recently swapped both my wife's G37xS and my Z over to the BFGoodrich G-Force Comp 2 AS. Besides having a tread compound with a broader operating range, the wear rating is over three times higher (UTOG), which helps the overall cost.

I never was a big fan of the BS 040 or the 050, except when the Z33 was new Nissan provided a new set for free due to the feathering issues. Of course, my tires were constantly being feathered by all the track time. Which is probably another thing your wife doesn't need to hear...

bealljk

iTrader: (13)

dont figure out how long you have to stay in debt, figure out how quick you can get out of debt...payments are dumb.

what character trait of you is weaker? your brain or your ego?


sometime I get wayyyyyy toooooo sppppoooolllled up over this stuff...I'll stop ... carry-on...this will be an interesting thread...

drozzy

Thanks! I've been reading up on them a bit, I guess all-seasons have come a long way since 7-8 years ago, even. The BFGs you mentioned are also priced nicely.

How quick? Lol. We're ok at managing the household assets, thanks though. Not all mortgages, loans and LOCs are created equal.

jhc

I recently retired my pristine 06 ZR to a weekend car at 104k. It's been absolutely reliable and a blast to own and drive. After correcting some camber issues (adj arms) I'll be getting the Super Sports or 760s again.
Cost of ownership and insurance is almost nothing, and as the Z33 gets passed down to newer drivers with more testosterone than skill they are slowly becoming more rare. Smiles per mile (and $), hard to beat a Z.
I hope you enjoy your choice, thing is, you can always sell later. Once it's gone, it's gone. I've seen so many sell and get something else only to end up in a Z again.
Good luck!

Agret

Since when is a 2dr coupe about practicality? There's nothing practical about a z or an 86

drozzy

Good question I suppose. One is a 2-seater, the other one has meaningless back seats i.e. a HUGE glove box. I have none in the Z, and the sub enclosure was built in-car between the rear deck and the rear strut bar... plus, the 'floor' of my hatch area is soft now that the plastic panel won't fit back in (two amps and 0 ga, 4 ga wires occupy the spare tire space). It's semi-ok to bring my uniforms & suits to the office, but almost any kind of sports equipment is a no-go... fine for squash, not so much for hockey. The 86 would have given me what I needed for that. I'll just take my G for those short trips, which in 4 years time will have been traded in for some Legacy or maybe a Mazda6 if they end up fitting an AWD system to it.

drozzy

Update, I guess... I went shopping (BRZ, Mustang, Camaro) and was told my car is worth $10-11K (CAD) on trade-in. I'm too emotionally attached to it to let it go for that price even if it means I'm getting in an interesting drag platform for weekend duty with the wife, kids and friends. I'm the 2nd owner of my '06 Grand Touring 5AT and the odometer reads 74,300 km (roughly what, 44K miles?)... only some very light curb rash on two of the RAYSv2 wheels, the car looks great (I think! I know some of you can't stand stock ride height.....).


So, I got PS4S's in OEM sizes to get me through the next 4-5 summers, maybe I'll get a set of rears (19X10, 285/35) in the future for passes at the strip if I ever feel like it.

I'll upgrade my front stage soon, I can't stand the Kappa Perfects anymore. My Focal K2P UV's won't clear the windows and I'm not putting pods in this car, I just need decent 6.5 comps that will clear the damn windows and that run silk tweets.

I threw a couple of pics of the good ol' G35x ('06) I traded in last year to get into a 2013 G37xS (stock, got black Enkei Raijins wrapped in A/S 3+ tires). She saved my bacon in snowstorms many, many times - outstanding traction with proper snow tires. Stillen short ram, MD 5/16", DC headers, Berk HFCs, Stillen Gen2 catback, UpRev tune @ APH in Toronto (Aug '11). Loud, and quick off the line on its square 245/45ZR18 setup in the summer; louder, and WTF-took-off-so-quick-in-8-inches-of-wet-snow in the winter.

Now on to a mods thread on the main board..... fun money is coming, we're moving next month - smaller mortgage, bigger lot/garage, longer commute. I like it, the Z likes it.











My golf bag still fits. Driver & 3W up front on passenger side...



1200D & TRA560.2



IDMAXv3D4, 1.3 net cu ft sealed



High density foam shims the 'loose' end of the enclosure with the forward plastic section - no rattles. Too much bass = xmax has been reached and the surround is hitting the plastic. It's roughly an inch of travel, one way.

Agret

I guess instead of trading it in you could opt for a private sale, you will receive more for it. Looks to be in real nice condition and as you said hardly any miles on it. G37 would be perfect for the weekend duty. Good luck for the future

dkmura

iTrader: (64)

Drozzy- congrats for making the right choice on cars. Holding onto the Z makes so much sense. One hint on the wheels, though: 19" wheels with bigger tires will increase your unsprung weight and burden power delivery. Get some 18" summer performance tires and stick with those Rays for better results at the strip.

Interesting comments on your front separates in the Z. I swear the lower cost MB Quart 6.5s installed years ago still blow me away. With clean power from the US Acoustics amp, they bring the kind of clarity and range that cut though the road noise and bring my music to life. While I'm no audiophile, I know what I like and the MBQs have stood the test of time.

drozzy

Thanks!

Since the v2 rear 19's are on the lightweight side for their size I'd like to make sure I understand your point correctly - are you saying it would be a better performance tradeoff to keep the Rays set for the strip? (my buddy has an F-150 + trailer for wheels, jack, tools, etc and is sort of onboard with the idea) Which means... getting a set of 18's (18X9 & 18X10? 9.5/10.5's?) as my daily summer set, wrapped in street performance rubber?

If you were otherwise suggesting that I keep the brand new Pilot Sport 4S set I have on the Rays for street duty, and getting a set of 18's with stickier streets or even drag radials for the strip - then that's where I was headed. The first part is done, love the Michelins (coming from worn out RE050A's).

I'm no audiophile either I guess, but I was into regional (provincial) SQ/IASCA competitions in the 2005-07 era with my Mazda, then with the Maxima which was the full meal deal. Mics used for time alignment on the Eclipse 8V pre-out/24 bit Burr Brown DAC deck (CD5000), 2005 series Tarantula stereo amp (still run it!) pushing all the Focal K2P UVs could handle (these guys are wrapped in soft towels, sitting in a shoebox) and two 12" IDMAXes in 1.52 cu ft sealed each - low end extension monsters, think out-of-this-world bass guitar & kick drum... at the same time. Still run one of them in the Z, two would be way too much for me. Hell Freezes Over's version of Hotel was my final go to tune for max dB towards the end, I didn't care about results so much - it was just soooo cool being part of it all. Sick cars. I don't doubt your amp & MBQ's do the job plenty, it's just that I've been reminiscing about how warm and clear the Focal mids sound ever since they were taken out of the old G. That was one sad day. And the old G had a 4V preout Pioneer deck similar to the one I run these days in the Z, so not even the full experience I had in the Maxima... the industry has gone under, I don't even know that Eclipse/Fujitsu Ten still exists as a company.

dkmura

iTrader: (64)

The BOLD comment was what I was suggesting. Consider an 18 X 9.0 (or even 9.5") wheel like the Enkei RPF-1 with a sticky 275 or 285 tire. Good bite and light weight make for quick acceleration.

As for the sound system, I'm certainly not in your league, But my aim was to improve the sound without adding much, if any, weight. It's amazing what a good speaker with clean power will do, but I'm under no illusion that there's better systems available.

MicVelo

Just to clarify a couple of points here....

While dkmura's points about the wheel size to weight ratio is generally correct, I have on good authority (the set of 19s on my car currently and the other two sets in my garage) that the total tire/wheel weight of these are actually surprisingly far less than the 18s I had on the car when I got it (Touring V1 18x8s) and another set of 18s I picked up at one time.

Key is in picking the *right* set of wheels and tires. My forged Nismo LMZ5s (Z34 accessory wheels) only weigh 20# per corner (for identical width 9/10s) and the tires, while larger than OE sizes (245/275), actually weigh in at only one pound more than OE 18" sizes I had; for a net DROP in weight over the OE setups (other than Track V1s).

And, it should be pointed out that the Track/GT V2 (identical size and weight as the Nismo V3s) are NOT light wheels. Front 18s are OK at around 20# but the rear 19x10s are boat anchors at 29# each. They work surprisingly well on the back of the Nismo and GT cars but when I ran the LMZ5s on my Niz, wow..... there IS a pretty sizeable (no pun) difference in performance.



Point is, there are a number of 19" wheels available that are good on weight if you search 'em out and are willing to pay for forged. But, as was pointed out, you can't go wrong with a set of GOOD 18" wheels that are strong and lightweight... RPF1 leads that pack.