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So I had my turbos overhauled a few months ago and one of the piston rings did not seal right. The turbo on the driver's side is pooring smoke. I know it's not the engine smoking. I can see drips of oil coming off of the drivers side center section vband clamp on the turbo. Engine compression and leakdowns we're both good. Yes it could be an oil ring but it's highly doubtful. I replumbed the turbo drains to the top of the oil pan and the Greddy turbos come with oil restrictors so I'm confident it's not a drainage issue. With those things being said i am in desperate need of a new center section for this turbo and can't find them anywhere. Kinguwana said it would be a 2 week order at minimum and I can't wait that long. I'm having a lot of trouble locating these center sections any help finding one or even two would be much appreciated!
So I have searched long and far and came up with a replacement center section that Kinguwana makes. Their part number is 49179-01150. I'm still not 100% sure that this cartridge is compatible though. Even Kinguwana wasnt sure and I cant find a solid answer anywhere from anyone. This one is throwing me for a loop. There are plenty of rebuild kits out there for the TD06 20G but the CHRA's are far and few in between. I've been in touch with every major dealer that deals with the mitsu turbos and still cant find a solid answer. If anyone has replaced center sections in their greddy 20G's I would really appreciate a part number and manufacturer of the center sections you used. Any help would be much appreciated i need to get this smoking problem taken care of somewhat quickly before I destroy sensors and such.
I run Kinugawas - Its a mitsubishi replacement. My 18g CHRA were $500/ea shipped and a direct replacement. I read mostly good (a few bad tbh) reviews from the 240sx/subi/evo guys across the board.
two immediate thoughts:
#1 - I'll hold judgement until I can push boost into the 24 to 27psi range but so far I have 1500 miles on mine and no issues but Ill hold judgement.
#2 - similar to how the best headgaskets in the world wont hold a bad tune. The best turbo in the world wont last if abused, oil starved, or otherwise run outside of their design.
Originally Posted by TT03Z
Even Kinguwana wasnt sure
can you return them if they don't fit? It seemed like they had pretty good customer service when I dealt with them back a few months ago? or can you send a turbo to them for a trial fitting?
I might be able to send a CHRA to them to check fitment or at least get some measurements from mine and confirm before I order. Problem is I can't have the car down right now. There's a huge racing event this weekend and I wanted to have the smoking problem cleared up by then. But oh well. The car is running super strong on 20psi right now. I know oil puking turbos aren't good for turbine balance but if it grenades at this point I'm really not out much. Thinking of switching to a big single already this Greddy kit has been a pita. Might even go with an oiless turbo just cause I'm sick of the issues.
Just take your old turbo apart and measure. It should just be a common td06h-20g chra.
20g refers to the compressor wheel, the intake side. Tons of 20g replacements.
The td06h is going to tell you how big the turbine wheel is.
Compressor Wheel : 52.5 / 68 mm
Turbine Wheel : 58.8 / 67.2 mm
That's the problem though. It is a standard TD06H 20G but I can't find the CHRA'S anywhere no one has them in stock. A buddy talked me into getting ahold of Forced performance. They might be able to get me an upgraded set of turbos. I am waiting on their response to my email. Thinking about going with the FP black that's supposedly capable of 700hp each. Maybe next year I'll get a block gurdle and a spare block and put those turbos on and see how far I can push it. The FP black "should" be a direct replacement for the TD06 20G's or at least can be machined to bolt directly up to the existing manifold and downpipes. But on another note I think I may have figured out my smoking problem. Crankcase was ventilated to atmosphere using the factory pcv valve which means crankcase pressure would have to overcome the spring in the valve to open it. I have a drilled out valve I replaced the new one with and ran a hose from the catch can outlet to the turbo intake pipe. Putting a vacuum on the crankcase seemed to help a lot with the smoking issue. I probably don't have a junk turbo just an improperly plumbed oil system. I drilled the oil pan and moved the drains to the highest point possible in the pan a while ago but that didn't seem to clear the smoke up. I now have a bunch of oil in my exhaust system I will have to drain before I speak to loud about solving the problem. I'll post again when I hear back from FP.
The TD06 actually fits in our cars? I have a td05 in my G coupe and man it was a tight fitment.
Yeah they fit alright but it's super tight. I ended up getting solid motor mounts cause I could see where the compressor housings we're touching the shock towers when the factory motor mounts would flex. Now the passenger side turbo sits about an 1/8th of an inch away from the shock tower with the Z1 solid mounts. Have to pull the motor to get that turbo off....pita.
Yeah they fit alright but it's super tight. I ended up getting solid motor mounts cause I could see where the compressor housings we're touching the shock towers when the factory motor mounts would flex. Now the passenger side turbo sits about an 1/8th of an inch away from the shock tower with the Z1 solid mounts. Have to pull the motor to get that turbo off....pita.
Any pictures of clearance?
I just took my motor out to replace clutch. Good time to upgrade turbos
[QUOTE=SAMzG35;10908848]Any pictures of clearance?
I just took my motor out to replace clutch. Good time to upgrade turbos[/Q
They fit I don't think I have any pics of how tight it is. But u can use your current turbos. Just buy 20G billet compressor wheels and a compressor housing the 18g's are TD05 and the 20G's are TD06 but the wheels and compressor housings are interchangeable I believe. I have a pair of standard 20g compressor wheels if your interested.
^even with solid mounts you have to give the blower a little bit of heat expansion and wiggle room ... stuffing as much turbo in the engine bay as humanly possible will ruin your weekend at some point in time...
Yeah they fit alright but it's super tight. I ended up getting solid motor mounts cause I could see where the compressor housings we're touching the shock towers when the factory motor mounts would flex. Now the passenger side turbo sits about an 1/8th of an inch away from the shock tower with the Z1 solid mounts. Have to pull the motor to get that turbo off....pita.
As for pulling the motor to get the turbos out, not required. When i had the td06h-20g I was able to pull both turbos from the ground. Passenger side takes about an hour. Driver side is even quicker. Done the swap several times and have taken pass side off for service several times by itself. Engine has not been pulled since I put it in the bay in 2009.
What you need is to make a custom tool and use 12mm nuts. Cut a box wrench in two pieces, weld a socket to the end. Attack from the top on the hard to reach nut on the pass side and the bottom for the driver side.
As for oil drain there is a misconception. Plumb to the bottom is ok. The oil will fill the line to the same level as what is in the oil pan. What you want is a drain tube that always flows down hill. If you try to route to the upper part of the pan you may end up with a low spot or low slope.
^even with solid mounts you have to give the blower a little bit of heat expansion and wiggle room ... stuffing as much turbo in the engine bay as humanly possible will ruin your weekend at some point in time...
True. And people wonder why they were cracking the pass side manifold.
True. And people wonder why they were cracking the pass side manifold.
Yep my passenger side manifold was cracked. I could see where the compressor housing was touching the shock tower. I also figured it was because of that which is why I went with solid motor mounts. I repaired the manifold and so far it has stayed together nicely. But I did find when I drilled the holes before I welded the crack that the metal thickness was very inconsistent could also play a roll in them cracking.
If you try to route to the upper part of the pan you may end up with a low spot or low slope.
I still think flowing back to the pan with a oil pan spacer is a bad move...
You may have a low spot or even a minimal slope but you still have (on average) ~50psi of pressure pushing oil back to the pan and even when you have minimal slope the oil is gravity draining...my 2cents...
I still think flowing back to the pan with a oil pan spacer is a bad move...
You may have a low spot or even a minimal slope but you still have (on average) ~50psi of pressure pushing oil back to the pan and even when you have minimal slope the oil is gravity draining...my 2cents...
The oil psi is where the problem comes into play. One misconception of turbos is that the piston rings are to seal oil out. When in fact the rings are to keep exhaust gases and boost pressure from getting into the oil galley of the turbos. With that being said when there is excessive oil pressure the drains can't keep up and it fills the chra with oil and pushes it past the seals. The only reason oil would push past the rings is because of a drainage/excessive oil psi problem or because of excessive shaft play. I'm working on the car right now to figure out what's going on. I plumbed my oil catch can outlet to the turbo intake pipe to put suction on the crankcase which will help pull the oil from the turbos. It was plumbed to vent to atmosphere with a filter. This should definitely help. I also changed the pcv valve to one that is drilled out. Crankcase pressure would have to overcome the spring to vent I think this was also some of the problem. When I changed valve covers I forgot to put the drilled pcv back in. I just drained a good half quart of oil out of my intercooler so I have my fingers crossed that this will repair the smoking problem if the turbos aren't already shot. I'm going to check for shaft play in the turbos tomorrow night and see if that's part of my problem if there's not excessive shaft play I will have to rethink my oil feeds/drains.
One misconception of turbos is that the piston rings are to seal oil out. When in fact the rings are to keep exhaust gases and boost pressure from getting into the oil galley of the turbos.
explain this again? Where do pistons come into play? are we talking about the engine or the turbo?
Originally Posted by TT03Z
when there is excessive oil pressure the drains can't keep up and it fills the chra with oil and pushes it past the seals.
If a 1/2" line with no significant back pressure cant drain a 1/4" line (at 120psi) I'd think there is a problem elsewhere. Not to mention the CHRA have an oil restriction hole ... so in effect if a 1/2" line can't drain a 1/8" feed ... ekkk
Originally Posted by TT03Z
I plumbed my oil catch can outlet to the turbo intake pipe to put suction on the crankcase which will help pull the oil from the turbos. It was plumbed to vent to atmosphere with a filter. This should definitely help. I also changed the pcv valve to one that is drilled out. Crankcase pressure would have to overcome the spring to vent I think this was also some of the problem. When I changed valve covers I forgot to put the drilled pcv back in.
this makes no sense to me...
Originally Posted by TT03Z
I just drained a good half quart of oil out of my intercooler
you're bypassing oil through the cold side of turbo - whether its coming from your catch can suction setup or from your feed ... a half-quart worth. Replace the CHRAs ... hook the oil lines up as greedy described, you have way too many things going on and your system is overly complicated and you're trouble shooting too many things.
I still think flowing back to the pan with a oil pan spacer is a bad move...
You may have a low spot or even a minimal slope but you still have (on average) ~50psi of pressure pushing oil back to the pan and even when you have minimal slope the oil is gravity draining...my 2cents...
The oil in the pan is not under pressure except for the head pressure from the Crankcase (which you should ventilate).
Routing from the turbo to what is perceived as above the oil level line in the pan has 0 benefit in my mind for the greddy kit. Maybe if you had a top mount where you could actually have downward slope at all times then yes. working with hoses of this size in a cramped bay is not easy.
The oil line can be considered part of the pan. The level of oil in the line when the engine is off will be the same as the pan. The static pressure on the oil inside the crank case will push oil up the line some...again, properly vent your crank case.
Originally Posted by TT03Z
The oil psi is where the problem comes into play. One misconception of turbos is that the piston rings are to seal oil out. When in fact the rings are to keep exhaust gases and boost pressure from getting into the oil galley of the turbos. With that being said when there is excessive oil pressure the drains can't keep up and it fills the chra with oil and pushes it past the seals. The only reason oil would push past the rings is because of a drainage/excessive oil psi problem or because of excessive shaft play. I'm working on the car right now to figure out what's going on. I plumbed my oil catch can outlet to the turbo intake pipe to put suction on the crankcase which will help pull the oil from the turbos. It was plumbed to vent to atmosphere with a filter. This should definitely help. I also changed the pcv valve to one that is drilled out. Crankcase pressure would have to overcome the spring to vent I think this was also some of the problem. When I changed valve covers I forgot to put the drilled pcv back in. I just drained a good half quart of oil out of my intercooler so I have my fingers crossed that this will repair the smoking problem if the turbos aren't already shot. I'm going to check for shaft play in the turbos tomorrow night and see if that's part of my problem if there's not excessive shaft play I will have to rethink my oil feeds/drains.
Youre kinda right from what I can understand. If you pressurize the CHRA you will get oil pushed past the seals and into your intake. Piston rings leak boost pressure/compression stroke air into crank case.
I also run Catch Can "draw" air back to my turbo intake pipe filters.
When routing your oil feed line...properly T off the fitting. The tall leg of this capital T is your oil in flow direction, the horizontal parts of this T are the feed lines to your turbos. Do not feed from the horizontal part of the T.
07-25-2017, 04:40 PM
Greddy TD06H 20G center sections
