Mr600r

Ok going to take back to the tuner from what I've read and other comments the 4pulls the ended up with 266 rwhp seemed MEH. I'm not concerned with the peak number (280 would still be nice) but rather the gain. To my knowledge the timing wasn't messed with and the A/F ratio was dialed in at 12.5/12.6. HOWEVER. LOL there will be two things im adding (ART test pipes and ported throttle body) from you all experience what is the best A/F for power AND should the timing be advanced for more power? Some say 12-12.1 others say 13. 13.2 looking at the graph looks like the top end was already close to 12.5 hence the only 3 hp gained, but the low end midrange was Lean and picked up about 10-12 in that area. Don't get me wrong car runs great BUT for 700.00 bucks I expected more.

BluestreamDE

You will not make 280whp unless you run Longtubes Headers and cams along with your other mods. I'm sorry if u feel that you deserve more power, The DE is not very responsive to NA mods on average you will make 260whp/250tq with full boltons. You bought the wrong car. The HR would get you the numbers you are hoping for.

BluestreamDE

Also running a high AFR like 13.1 will give you a little more power, but you will be tuned on the ragged edge with more chance of knock/detonation hurting your motor if it's too hot or if you get a bad batch of gas. I wouldn't advise doing that and tune more safely for reliably and settle for ok numbers with a safe afr of 12.8 but that is for you to decide for ur car.

Mr600r

Ok so a bit more lean then ??? Makes sense a buddy of mine had his 370z tuned to 13.2 exactly. That was what he wanted specifically. Ok it looks to me like the tuner just **** for 12.5 and left it alone. Ok what about timing ?? From your experience is best left as is or adjusted?

Mr600r

BluestreamDE

Good job, glad you went with the AFR I suggested on run 3.

Blizzard25

deleted because double post

Blizzard25

Here's your AFR tuning guide

Mr600r

CK_32

iTrader: (1)

There is a thread that explains people who run 3.5” intake and 3.5” TB units see no to negative gain on NA.

The only
Ones who benefit is the FI guys because it allows more volume under force. Where NA DE’s don’t have anything left to utilize over sized intakes and throttle bodies.

IIRC it’s in the drivetrain forum. It was active like last week lots of good info in there.

Mr600r

Dam so may actually loose power huh. The guy I purchased the ported upper intake didn’t think there would be double digit increase if any. So it’s good to hear another opinion. I suppose the bottom line is all cars seem to respond differently to the same bolt on. There is another post on here and he said that same intake actually gained 12 rwhp I’ll have to search and verify year. I was thinking about adding another tune BUT for race fuel eieher 100 or 104 octane.
Anyone think it’s worth it for possible gain? we have a gas station in seguin tx that actually has 100 oct at the pump. Cheaper than the track 7.99 a gallon. WORTH A TUNE?

CK_32

iTrader: (1)

Lots of people say lots of things to justify stuff. People have said their autozone intakes have gained them 30hp but have never touched a dyno.

And race gas isn’t going to make the intake better or worse for power. It’s going to allow you to advance more timing on the engine and avoid detonation with added power.

Mr600r

DarkZ03

iTrader: (11)

Race gas can add power if it's oxygenated, otherwise I wouldn't bother. I have yet to see anyone lose power from the bigger tb or intake (quite the contrary) it's a very popular MOD, I doubt it would be if there weren't gains behind it. FI certainly doesn't need it lol

CK_32

iTrader: (1)

Stance and exhaust flame tunes are very popular as well. Doesn’t equate to gains because people do it.

And why wouldn’t FI need it? If anything that’s the biggest gain. Again you’re allowing more volume to be delivered to the motor and adding less restriction to the turbos intake flow. If you believe FI won’t benefit or doesn’t need it. Then you can’t believe NA would.

That’s like saying blowing through a stray isn’t any better than blowing through a pipe. It would work for sucking to simulate NA but NA isn’t nearly as powerful as FI.

That said, I second the race gas is useless with out oxygen. Also you need to make some good power and lots of timing to need race gas.

DarkZ03

iTrader: (11)

I never said won't benefit, I said it wasn't needed. Most FI kits are matched so I think if a company thought a bigger tb and pipe were needed it would be included or an option in such a kit. A turbo or supercharger has a limit obviously.

DarkZ03

iTrader: (11)

On the topic of bigger intakes just look at Sasha's build, his stuff was in magazines and not fictional... Everything he did to open it up made more power, that pretty much said everything you need to know about the intake track on these engines. He was using a 90mm tb before swapping to ITBs and to this date has one of the highest HP and fastest NA 350Zs documented.

bealljk

iTrader: (13)

I wouldnt unless you know damn 100% well that you have 100% 100+ octane in your tank. If you have a 100+ octane and a small bit of pump you're asking for trouble...

what CK said, the additional power/torque comes from advancing your timing ... if the actual fuel mix isnt what it's tuned for things will go south quickly ... and at 6500rpm, things go bad quickly...

If it was me, I'd go fill up on 87 octane and get retuned knowing you'll be running 93 ... if your tune is good at 87, it'll be fine at 93.

is it sexy? not at all, but it's safe. And in reality your 283whp is at ~6500rpm, how often are you at that engine speed?

Your car...your call, just my 2cents

CK_32

iTrader: (1)

He is also one of the best Z tuners in the world. That car also has one off high compression pistons and high comp cams along with a boat load of other things to utilize that extra intake size. It’s the worlds highest NA HP VQ for a reason.

Normal cars like the OP have had people buy the 3.5” TB or larger ones have showed their before and after dynos and usually gain minimal to literally 0 HP.

NA is limited by just that. NA, it can only suck so much. Even less as the car ages and parts wear to lose that vacuum. If the 3” TB isn’t a major restriction then going to a 90mm won’t do anything. Because it’s not a restriction at Stock/NA values.

And just like an actual vacuum if you have a 2” stretch hose on it it increases the velocity. If you add a 8” stretch hose it loses all vacuum pressure thus sucking in a higher volume, but at less pressure and velocity. Ie losing air mass being forced in. Aka what a turbo does on its own to a mass degree. Which is why the bigger TB is optimal for it.

It’s more than just air volume. Which is why some people lose power with ITB’s on some cars. Just like Sasha’s when he played with 100 different types of trumpet designs. Some lost the velocity flow by being bigger, smaller, longer, shorter, different shape. You need to maximize both vacuum and velocity with NA engines. Not just one or the other. Which is why it’s so hard to make NA engines HP pigs.



As for the standard kit tubing being 3”.. That’s because it’s usually built for stock applications being a 3” ish TB. Custom kits with built motors and large TB’s usually run 4” or larger intake piping and exhaust piping to maximize flow. But as you hinted at earlier FI isn’t as touchy as NA with velocity/volume because most turbos can put out 2x the flow to feed the HP. Hardly ever do people max out turbos and when they do it’s easier just to get a bigger turbo to force the air down the smaller less optimized standard piping.

Again which is why most race teams run massive turbos and much larger piping than normal guys like us who has street rigs that are limited by the block not the volume or air being delivered. FI is still subject to volume, velocity and pressure but much less than a NA motor being limited to just the vacuum pressure to deliver air in.

DarkZ03

iTrader: (11)

The only little detail is Sasha had a stock bottom end when he was running the Carbotech intake and 90mm TB tho. After he pulled the lid on it and still made more power he went to ITBs, then after that came the block and trans.