Here is what I see as the biggest problem with tuning the Z....
 

Compared to my previous Audi, the aftermarket for the Z is huge. Still, the overall listing of products disappoints me. Why? There doesn't seem to be any "system" that one can put together that reliably works. It all seems to be a guessing game of trial and error and multiple trips back to the dyno. Even the FI kits seem to not be properly engineered. The problem with all the Z tuning has nothing to do with the hardware, as much of seems to be first rate. The main problem is that proper software tuning seems to be sorely lacking for almost any set-up, and it is left to the individual to figure everything out in terms of fuel, air, timing, etc. for any given combination of mods. I know that with my Audi, there were only a handful of reputable tuners, but the upgrade kits all came with the ECU software properly engineered to take advantage of the gains that the hardware allowed. If I am mistaken, please direct me to the right place, if not, how come there has been so much time, energy and effort put into developing hardware, but not the appropriate ECU programming to optimize it all. The only ECU product I have seen is the Technosquare ECU, but that is only one set of parameters...and exactly which mods is it designed to work best with? This applies to NA as well as FI set-ups.

I would like to see a NA set-up by some tuner that includes all the bolt- ons, cams, and possibly some fuel system mods, along with the proper ECU tuning programs. Likewise, when you spend $7000 on a Greddy TT kit, you shouldn't have to spend a week on a dyno to get it working right. ALL the parameters should be SAFELY pre-programmed from the manufacturer. You should just have to hook it all up and GO!!! Where are the real engineers!!!!!

Ditto. Greddy doesn't control timing, splitsecond can't control other injectors, Aeromotive can't control either. The ECU on the Z is a real problem. I'm surprised Technos hasn't figured out maps for the different bolt-ons yet, considering it would be a gold mine.
They could charge like $400 the first time and then $25-30 per reflash as you ad mods. I'd buy it.

TechnoSquare has several different custom maps for different mod paths. I know they have our highly tweaked map and are still working on some custom stuff that we requested beyond what has already been found. They also have a very nice ATI solution for using larger injectors (380) instead of FMU and inline fuel pump. They are working on controlling even larger injectors as well. I also think they have stuff for the Greddy, PE, and Vortech kits (in development). IMO, they are the most knowledgeable 350Z ECU tuners stateside and continue to learn about our car.

The car has been out a little over a year and is totally new, unlike the evo, sti, etc. More time is needed, and perhaps some more research by knowledgeable owners. There are plenty of solutions out there if you know what you want. As for one main reason no one company has an “all in one” solution . . .development of such systems costs too much. Not to say that vendors cant and wont partner in the future, but in reality the car is still new.

2 words AEM EMS

All of this will be resolved when AEM releases their ECU.

I thought they said they were not currently working on an EMS for the z?

The Greddy is kit is perfectly safe out of the box. 350whp. The tuning issue comes into play as you increase boost and move up the performance ladder. Read some of ETX and mine's on the eManage...it is a powerful tuning option. When you start adding serious HP to the car, there is no solution that doesnt require some tweaking to get it right. Like I said, there are plenty of safe bolt on 350whp solutions. As time goes on...there will likeliy be safe 400whp out of the box solutions..and 450whp out of the box solutions.

Oh, and EMS is not the answer to all the probs...and yes...AEM is postponing some work on the 350Z ECU...they have other priorities at the present time.

Couldn't agree more.
 

It's clear that the aftermarket has not developed reliable, cost-effective components for the Z as it has done for other cars. I suspect this is partially because the Z is a relatively new car, and partially because the car is pretty tweaked from the factory. The FI kits are the only way to go, but the expense and questionable reliability are prohibitive for most of us.

I say give the aftermarket some time to catch up - judging by the $$$ 350z owners drop on wheels and body kits they are a wealthy bunch to whom the aftermarket will cater.

NzZ

The Stillen kit is also a pre-tuned bolt on.
As far as a preprogrammed "system" that anticipates every modification combination a owner can put on a car and adjusts accordingly, I think is asking a bit much at this stage.The car is new.

I would like to see a NA set-up by some tuner that includes all the bolt- ons, cams, and possibly some fuel system mods, along with the proper ECU tuning programs, pours me a cold drink on a hot day, drives the car to my destination while I sleep and gets me laid at the push of a button.

JWT's TT kit (supposed to be out near the end of summer) is going to have an ECU with the kit. It will be very interesting to see the difference in numbers to the other kits when it does show up.

Since JWT has so much Nissan ECU experience, I would think that he would start making aftermarket ECUs eventually. But nothing yet.

God, you summed up pretty much what I tried to say about a year ago and here and there since then. Thanks for saving me having to preach again.
Supposedly Jim Wolf is working on cracking the ECU for thier turbo kit, and HKS has a harness for the FCON V PRO. I too would like to see an AEM EMS, I think it will happen eventually but they don't have the software for thier compuiters to communicate with systems that use multiplexing like our cars. Multiplexing is where mulitiple digital siganls are carried on one wire/pin of the ecu. Honda and some other manufacturers are using this technology so you would think they have to go in that direction sooner or later.
The adaptivness of the stock ecu sucks and I'm not convinced yet the the ecu doesnt work it's way back to stock after a while with the current offerings from the aftermarket. I guess patience is a vurtue. I'd like get some real tuning done. Someone needs to make a cam controller for the VQ also. Nissan's system is mainly used for emissions if I understand it correctly not to advace for power.

GQ ...you seem to be pretty knowledgable on FIing the 350...My question to you is right now what is the easiest in terms of maintaince\tuning\reliability system out their that can put 350hp from the wheels right out of the box...Does such a system exist?...I am just looking to get decent horsepower and know my car is going to run 7 days a week

Thanks in advance
-Mike

It's the trend with most modern cars - the ecu tends to hide the key towards reliable tuning.

However, there are a few things to correct.

The E Manage most certainly DOES control timing with the proper connections - it can retard only, not advance, which frankly for forced induction use, is what you need.

The TS ecu also can be made to control any combo of mods you can think of. The biggest issue I have seen with it (first hand) is their lack of support towards their dealers. if you are lucky enough to be local to TS, then they can be a god send, as they are intimately familar with the inner workings of the ecu, and how to extract reliable power from it. However, they leave their dealer base (albeit a very limited one with the Z market, as the equipment is expensive to buy), they pretty much leave the tuner on their own to figure things out - not a good way to build a platform, though I understand their reasoning (I just don't personally agree with it).

You will not see an AEM EMS for this car in the forseeable future - my prediction would frankly be ever, though I may be wrong.

The HKS F COn is available and there is a plug and play harness for the Z - its downside is it is not, nor ever will be user programmable. Programming can only be done by an HKS Pro dealer (similar scenario to the TS ecu). There are very few Pro dealers in the US, and even fewer with the actual knowledge to tune an F Con.

Many other engine management solutions exist, though they are really not being used just yet in the market. In the next few months we will be installing a TECIII system on my car, and trying to arrange a plug and play affair for it. However, we have just started work on it, so it will be a a few months out. Not to mention that while it is user programmable, it is most definately not for everyone due to its price, as well as its complexity. Those familar with ecu tuning will be able to work their way around it easily - those that are not however, are best off going with another system IMHO.

As for shipping things preprogrammed, the Greddy kit DOES come preprogrammed. However, there is no 1 magical map for every car, even if they run exactly the same mods. Having lived in the Audi market for awhile with my '00 S4, I found this to be exactly the case - many peoples "chips" or ecu upgrades ran reasonable well - but the ones that ran exceptionally well were the ones that were burned on a specific car to suit specific mods - the days ona generic, off the shelf, one for all solution are long since gone, and frankly, its a good thing IMHO.

Adam

Z-1 are you an autorized installer\tuner of any FI kits? Just wanted to know as I know I'm leaning toward FI and I am looking for a shop

we are, but truth be told, ahving installed 1 Greddy kit already, we wont be fitting another one....the car runs great and the install went fine, but its just too many hours for a single job and not cost effective for us.

However as a supplier for Greddy, HKS, Ultimate Racing and Power Enterprise, we can easily sort whatever you need :)

Adam

How couldnt it be worth your while if your charging your normal rates?

Because you have to turn away other clients while your working on it?

Here's a question, but not sure if anyone can really answer it. Has anyone running the Techno Square, or a piggy back like the e-manage had driveability or power loss issues down the road (maybe 2-3-6 months later) because the super adaptivness of the stock ECU has worked out the changes? I've heard this may be the case. Anyone know yet? That's why although I agree with Z-1 that an EMS maybe be a long way off if any it certainly would be an attractive set up because we could didtch the stock ECU. However if TS or anyone else (JIM WOLF??) can reflash the ECU and make it stick that would be awsome too.

Car won't start without that chassis's ECU from what I understand. I could be wrong, so please correct me if someone's in the know.

You are correct. The Nissan Anti-Theft System (NATS) must see a maching code from the ECU every time the key is cycled.

Yes the stock ecu has an imobilizer so that function would likely have to be removed if you went stand alone.