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FAQ: Official wheel "SPACER" thread!

Old 04-01-2009, 06:55 AM
  #1  
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Default FAQ: Official wheel "SPACER" thread!

On todays episode of "shade tree mechanic".........lol...

Here we are going to talk about spacers and hopefully have 1 thread that answers everyones questions!

Now, I'm gonna put everything in laymans* terms. I don't plan to get all technical and crap in the pics section. we can have time to answer those questions as they arise.

Also, I'm gonna keep it 350z specific. As there is more to the spacer world outside the Z community.

Enjoy......

-J

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Old 04-01-2009, 07:00 AM
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Default 2 - Types of spacers - Spacers with studs!

Ok, for the most part concerning the 350z, you have two options.

2. Spacers with studs already installed.
This is my preferred method as I track my car often and If at the track i run across a stripped stud, its as easy as swapping spacers.........win win set up............plus I own multiple sets of spacers for my Z!

-J
Attached Thumbnails FAQ: Official wheel "SPACER" thread!-group-e9853cf3-b632-48cb-add1-55218c742633-350.jpg   FAQ: Official wheel "SPACER" thread!-ic-bm-50415-731-2.jpg   FAQ: Official wheel "SPACER" thread!-kicsspacerfk0.jpg   FAQ: Official wheel "SPACER" thread!-v2-20.jpg   FAQ: Official wheel "SPACER" thread!-wheel-spacers.jpg  


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Old 04-01-2009, 07:03 AM
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Default 3 - Types of spacers - Spacers requiring extended studs.

Now, as for slip on, they require you to replace your z hub mounted oem studs with longer ones.


Installation of up to 5mm thick slip on spacer is acceptable with out replacing your oem studs and many have done so and have had no issues..........your a smart puppy, you decide......

Here are examples:
Now, the 4th pic shown are the crappy ebay specials......non car specific, "UNIVERSAL aluminum cast spacers". I would NOT run theses. If i were to consider a slip on style. i would purchase a machined spacer over a low void cast one any day.
Crappy "universal" cast material slip ons - NO!!!:


once again, your a smart puppy, you decide...

*EDIT -
REPLACEMENT STUDS FOR THE Z HUB UTILIZE A 14MM KNURL ON THE STUD!
-J
Attached Thumbnails FAQ: Official wheel "SPACER" thread!-slip-on-spacer.jpg   FAQ: Official wheel "SPACER" thread!-type1spacer.jpg   FAQ: Official wheel "SPACER" thread!-wheelspacers.jpg   FAQ: Official wheel "SPACER" thread!-wheelspacers-1-.jpg   FAQ: Official wheel "SPACER" thread!-x-ichiba-10mm-hubcentric-wheel-spacers.jpg  


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Old 04-01-2009, 07:11 AM
  #4  
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Default 4 - hub centric rings.

Okay,

You can purchase spacers with our with out hub centric rings.

Some come with the hub centric ring "lip" already machined into the spacer:


The use of the rings is again up to you. many have been fine installing wheels with out any issues, with out the use of hub centric rings.

The hub centric ring is great when adding spacers to oem wheels, as obviously the oem wheels have the same "bore" as the hub.
If i remember correctly the hub on the Z is 66.1mm, same as with oem wheel bore.


NOTE - the factory Z hub and the factory Z wheels both have the same BORE!!!
hub centric means that the hub size of the wheel (the circle cut out on the back side of the wheel) fits perfectly over the vehicle hub. same dimension.

Most after market wheels are not hub centric....you can ask the wheel manufacturer or you can test yourself...if you put on the wheel without lug NUTS and it starts wobbling around before you tighten it, then chances are its not hubcentric. As in, the wheel isn't sitting on the hub, or technically ----> supported by the hub. get it??

MOST DON'T GET IT BUT:
Most purchase hub centric rings, put them on their spacers, but then the after market wheels they purchased have a hub bore of say 73mm, so your pretty much not doing anything as the wheel bore is not sitting on the hub bore or the hub centric rings you bought. GET IT??

oh, it is possible to get hubcentric rings with say 66.1 on the hub/spacer side and say 73 on the wheel/bore side....
SEE HERE: https://my350z.com/forum/wheels-and-...ric-rings.html
ONCE AGAIN - THATS 66.1 INNER DIAMETER, AND 73MM OUTTER DIAMETER ON THOSE RINGS? (yeah the pic sucks, or may just be a universal picture, but either way thats what you guys need if your aftermarket wheel is 73mm)

Below are examples of attached "lip" hub centric rings:


Separate hub centric rings you can purchase for your spacers:


Attached/separate, it doesn't matter, its to obtain perfect center when mounting the wheel, not a means to transfer load....your studs and lug nuts are your attaching fasteners and load transfer medium...

-J

EDIT:
Read my response to this guys question in regards to hub ring sizes, 73mm = Volks, works, etc center wheel hole....88mm is also common on some after market wheels.......

https://my350z.com/forum/7388199-post82.html

-J
Attached Thumbnails FAQ: Official wheel "SPACER" thread!-ichi2.jpg   FAQ: Official wheel "SPACER" thread!-wheel-spacers.jpg  

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Old 04-01-2009, 07:14 AM
  #5  
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Default 5 - Gaps in the back of your wheels

okay num nuts! (kidding, kidding)

you need a "gap" in between your mounting stud holes on your wheels in order to run wheel spacers under 25mm THICK on your wheels.

I hope that the following pics help you understand this requirement for "some" thickness spacers.

Pics below show an OEM TRACK wheel and the gap in the wheel and the other pic is a aftermarket wheel with no gap - boo! very sad!

AFTERMARKET WHEEL NO GAPS:


FACTORY WHEEL WITH GAPS:


now, thats nice of nissan to give us gaps there in our OEM wheel design........I feel those punks knew we would be slapping on spacers left and right.......I MEAN C-MON, Nissan had to have made this requirement to the wheel builder for all their oem wheels to have these gaps.......nice....

-J
Attached Thumbnails FAQ: Official wheel "SPACER" thread!-nospacewheel.jpg   FAQ: Official wheel "SPACER" thread!-oem-wheel-depth.jpg  

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Old 04-01-2009, 07:16 AM
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Default 6 - OEM wheel set up.

Okay, here i show the length of the oem studs on the 350z. As you can see, any spacer less than 25mm thick will result in oem stud protrusion!

SO, you must have wheels that have the "GAPS" in-between the mounting holes for any spacer that is less than 25mm thick!! GET IT!!!



-J
Attached Thumbnails FAQ: Official wheel "SPACER" thread!-length24mm1.jpg   FAQ: Official wheel "SPACER" thread!-length24mm2.jpg   FAQ: Official wheel "SPACER" thread!-length24mm3.jpg  

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Old 04-01-2009, 07:18 AM
  #7  
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Default 7 - Thread protrusion on spacers!

Ok, this example:

Shown are 20mm project kic spacers. We are definitely going to have thread protrusion and NEED "gaps" between the lug mounting wheels on our wheels of choice for this application.

Measured of a 20mm spacer:

Digital Calipers used - HF ~ 15 bucks....

OEM stud measurement PAST the spacer thickness:



-J
Attached Thumbnails FAQ: Official wheel "SPACER" thread!-20mm-project-kics.jpg   FAQ: Official wheel "SPACER" thread!-calipers.jpg   FAQ: Official wheel "SPACER" thread!-thread-protrusion2.jpg   FAQ: Official wheel "SPACER" thread!-thread-protrusion.jpg  

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Old 04-01-2009, 07:24 AM
  #8  
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Default 8 - Extended studs - thread protrusion.

Here is a buddies car. He is running after market extended studs. So now his gap requirement is much higher. He is running OEM TRACK WHEELS with 25 mm spacers up front and 30mm spacers in the rear.

Shown is 25mm front spacers. difference of about 19mm shown.

-J
Attached Thumbnails FAQ: Official wheel "SPACER" thread!-img_6058.jpg   FAQ: Official wheel "SPACER" thread!-img_6054.jpg   FAQ: Official wheel "SPACER" thread!-img_6055.jpg   FAQ: Official wheel "SPACER" thread!-img_6056.jpg   FAQ: Official wheel "SPACER" thread!-img_6057.jpg  


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Old 04-01-2009, 07:32 AM
  #9  
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Default 9 - Options

okay,

once again, your options are:

1. Buy spacers with studs.

2. Buy spacers that slip on and install longer studs.



Please try and stop there.

************************************************************ *************
Alternate options:

3. If you have spacers with studs but the stud protrusion is too much, your only option is to replace your studs with shorter studs. NAPA - see ahead to link i provide in post #14, title number 13.

4. Or cut down your oem studs to less than the surface plane of your XXmm thickness spacer. XX = anything less than 25mm....get it??

Come again? well, if you need to run 15mm spacers. But have no room for thread protrusion, then you "could" if you decide to. Cut your oem studs down to max 15mm length, then your studs wont stick out past your spacer? get it?

Also, if your gonna do this,

I suggest, installing a sacrificial nut all the way to the hub. Install another sacrificial nut at the point of cutting. have washers in between so that the nut doesn't move and cut away.

Use the closet (2nd) nut as a guide to cut with out removing more than needed. cut using a air tool die grinder. after cutting, slowing back out the two nuts one at a time and the "backing out" process should clean up any grinding/cutting imperfections on the just cut threads.

your a smart puppy, you decide.

DO NOT DO WHAT IS IN THE PICTURE BELOW - BELOW IS A 15MM SPACER, AND TWO EACH 5MM SPACERS ADDED. NO, JUST NO!
Attached Thumbnails FAQ: Official wheel "SPACER" thread!-img_0024.jpg  

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Old 04-01-2009, 07:36 AM
  #10  
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Default 10 - installing longer studs - for slip on spacers

OKAY, SO THERE ARE A FEW OPTIONS.

YOU DECIDE.

1. PRESS ON NEW STUDS - REQUIRES YOU TO REMOVE THE HUB, REMOVE ORIGINAL STUDS, PRESS ON NEW STUDS.
HARBOR FREIGHT SHOP PRESS: (ITEM 4711-7VGA - about $80 bucks). They have this on sale many times and any small shop press will do the job on spacers....doesn't take much force to install or remove.


2. WHEEL SPACER INSTALLATION TOOL - Google it. You can drive all over town and try and find one. or you can even use a big enough C-clamp and a socket if you have one big enough. see 2nd pic below of actual tool in schematic.

3. Hand crank them on, see this thread - Done very well here:
https://my350z.com/forum/body-interi...e-of-pics.html


*EDIT -
REPLACEMENT STUDS FOR THE Z HUB UTILIZE A 14MM KNURL ON THE STUD!

Edit*
Added this for help in removing the rear rotors (when stuck) in order to install longer studs to the hub: courtesy of Guitman32:
Originally Posted by guitman32 View Post
You need to loosen the parking brake shoes. There is a little rubber plug on your rotor. Align this plug so it is at 11 or 12 o'clock. Then remove the plug. Now, with a flathead screwdriver, you need to turn the adjuster to loosen the parking brake shoes. If you do this, the rotor will come off freely just as the fronts. I see too many threads of people pounding away, when that is totally unnecessary and probably damages your parking brake system and rotors. The FSM is your friend:



Once you have replaced your rotor or completed whatever work you are doing, you need to re-adjust the parking brake. From the FSM:



I thought I would add that it takes quite a few turns to loosen the rotor, so just keep at it!! Also, a flashlight helps in locating the adjuster if you have never adjusted it before...no pounding necessary!!

Cheers
Courtesy of HXS:
Originally Posted by HXS View Post
just fyi, i found out that my front oem studs are LONGER than my rear oem ones lol.

fronts on the left are 35-mm threaded (47-mm overall) and rears on the right are 30-mm threaded (42-mm overall). they came from my 2004 G35 coupe.



-J
Attached Thumbnails FAQ: Official wheel "SPACER" thread!-install-13.jpg   FAQ: Official wheel "SPACER" thread!-6618920-0-large.jpg  

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Old 04-01-2009, 07:39 AM
  #11  
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Default 11 - Example of 20mm Front & 25mm Rear - OEM 06+ model wheels.

Buddy of mines car.

-J
Attached Thumbnails FAQ: Official wheel "SPACER" thread!-z-front-left.jpg   FAQ: Official wheel "SPACER" thread!-z-front-right.jpg   FAQ: Official wheel "SPACER" thread!-z-rear-left.jpg   FAQ: Official wheel "SPACER" thread!-z-rear-right.jpg  

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Old 04-01-2009, 07:41 AM
  #12  
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Default 12 - Example of 25mm Front and 30mm Rear - oem chrome Track wheels

Take a look......This is another friends car.......... This is the actual car we have been working on in some of the previous steps.

-J
Attached Thumbnails FAQ: Official wheel "SPACER" thread!-img_6059.jpg   FAQ: Official wheel "SPACER" thread!-img_6060.jpg   FAQ: Official wheel "SPACER" thread!-img_6062.jpg  

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Old 04-01-2009, 07:42 AM
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Default 13 - Another great example - 25mm Front & 30mm Rear - oem 06+ wheels

Nice look!

taken from here: https://my350z.com/forum/6961568-post30.html

Thanks for the pm.
-J
Attached Thumbnails FAQ: Official wheel "SPACER" thread!-img00021-20090214-1336.jpg   FAQ: Official wheel "SPACER" thread!-img00023-20090214-1336.jpg   FAQ: Official wheel "SPACER" thread!-img00028-20090214-1529.jpg   FAQ: Official wheel "SPACER" thread!-img00032-20090214-1530.jpg  

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Old 04-01-2009, 07:43 AM
  #14  
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Default 14 - replacing spacer studs and that silly little bolt!

REPLACING SPACER STUDS:

*Edited
Okay, I remove spacers from my car over and over and over again. Attending drift events and owning 18 wheels, i have removed my spacers TONS of times! i couldn't guess how many. reason being - while drifting, I have wheels that require spacers - and some that dont! so im often mounting and dismounting spacers along with WHATEVER wheel im running the course with at that time......

so to be clear! - I drift/autoX on spacers quite aggressively - have never had an issue other than having to replace a stripped stud....

like i mention in the linked thread - some spacer studs are not that high of quality and its easy to cross thread at times...


So, in case it ever happens to you...and a spacer stud gets cross threaded, etc.
The Z OEM studs are M12X1.25
FRONT OR REAR: M12X1.25x42 (42 mm OVERALL length) OEM F/R replacement
NAPA P/N 641-3210 $1.74 each
AUTOZONE - 610-378.1 98353.1 if i remember right, about $1.80 each



See this thread:
https://my350z.com/forum/wheels-and-...ent-studs.html

************************************************************ **************************************

SILLY BOLT ON YOUR HUBS WHEN INSTALLING SPACERS - FRONT WHEELS ONLY:

See the two each attached pics(about 6 O-clock position)..........the bolt is there so you don't rotate your OEM (FACTORY) wheels front to back, but it needs to be removed to install spacers of any kind. It's perfectly ok to remove this bolt! Proceed with spacer/wheel install.

Bolt:

No Bolt:


This is a fun thread on this bolt issue:

https://my350z.com/forum/wheels-and-...rket-rims.html

-J
Attached Thumbnails FAQ: Official wheel "SPACER" thread!-bolt.jpg   FAQ: Official wheel "SPACER" thread!-nobolt.jpg  

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Old 04-01-2009, 07:47 AM
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Default 15 - Measure and purchase accordingly!

OFFSET CALCULATOR:
http://www.1010tires.com/WheelOffsetCalculator.asp
also these:
Originally Posted by zayres29 View Post
my first post i figured i should make it a good one
Tire Size Calculator
http://www.miata.net/garage/tirecalc.html
Originally Posted by RandomHer0 View Post

OFFSET CALCULATOR:


Okay guys!

"What size should i get questions are somewhat rediculous on the forum"

Spacers are a measure and mount kinda thing.....

The best thing you can do is measure....
Measure tire to fender:
1. Sitting there, normal state
2. while re-creating a bump by driving on top of one board
3. while re-creating a bump by driving on top of two boards

from there, decide what thickness spacer works best.....



You mount 25mm then think:
"oh man, thats too much! i dont like it.....blah, blah......so then you end up selling them and purchasing 20mm's"


Only other thing you would need, depending on how "meaty" your tire is, you may need to roll your fender "LIP"

SORRY GUYS, BUT IT IS WHAT IT IS! YOU WANT THAT HELLA-FLUSH LOOK BUT "WHA WHA, I DONT WANNA ROLL MY FENDERS" GET OUT!! ROLL OR GO HOME, OR HAVE "NOT SO FLUSH" WHEEL, OR DRIVE AROUND TOWN WITH MEGA NEGATIVE CAMBER, RAISE THE HEIGHT OF THE CAR, DO SOMETHING........

DON'T COME IN HERE WITH "I DON'T WANNA ROLL MY FENDERS WHAT DO I DO"???, MEASURE, FIGURE IT OUT, ADJUST CAMBER, RAISE YOUR RIDE HEIGHT, OR GO WITH A 5MM THINER SPACER,

MEASURE:



2x4 METHOD:
GO DRIVE ON TOP OF SOME 2X4 BOARDS AND MEASURE TO ENSURE YOUR NOT HITTING THE FENDER..........

IT'S NEARLY IMPOSSIBLE TO TELL YOU WHAT "WILL OR WILL NOT" REQUIRE A ROLL WITH OUT TESTING/TEST FITTING, AND MEASURING....... ETC...There are way too many spring/lowering options out there that there is no way to say "well with GF210's and XXmm spacer on the rear no roll is needed" - GET OUT!!


See attached pics!

WHEEL OFFSET:
For those looking for wheels with the correct offset, this is a reference for how offset is measured on wheels.

From Center of wheel to the mounting surface!

ALWAYS MEASURED FROM CENTER! POSITIVE IS STREET SIDE:



ROLL YOUR FENDERS PEOPLE!!! - The Z has a horrible fender lip.............roll it!


UNKNOWN OFFSET ON WHEELS:

Q: I bought my car with aftermarket wheels and i have no idea what the offset is???
A: Dunn, dunn, dunn.....MEASURE!!!

Now, you may get lucky...as some wheels will have the offset stamped on the inside of the wheel... on a stock 350z wheel it says "ET 30" or some ish on it...



-J
Attached Thumbnails FAQ: Official wheel "SPACER" thread!-tech_2.jpg   FAQ: Official wheel "SPACER" thread!-img_3093.jpg   FAQ: Official wheel "SPACER" thread!-ns-offsetexplained.jpg   FAQ: Official wheel "SPACER" thread!-offset.gif   FAQ: Official wheel "SPACER" thread!-htup_0807_02_z-wheel_offset_diagram_centerline_rear_spacing_negative_positive_offset.jpg  


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Old 04-01-2009, 07:48 AM
  #16  
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Lightbulb 16 - UPDATE on spacer mounting lug nuts ~

IF YOU EVER RUN INTO THE ISSUE OF HAVING TO REPLACE THE LUG NUTS THAT COME WITH YOUR SPACERS!

I for one cant stand the ichiba "KEY" the one with 4 prongs that break!? ya, you know the ones.....


Do your wheels have gaps??? -- Because if so, you can go to a local tire shop and purchase really short replacement hex nuts - nuts that use a typical 17mm socket and not deal with stoopid keys! so long as they fit in the gaps of the wheels..........Review post #5


local -

Your gonna have to try all the mom and pop shops and see what they have........i have found them, but its not something they carry, its just something they have acquired over the years so to speak..

UPDATE:
I found that Gorilla has the lug nuts I use on my 25mm spacers: !

Ensure all the measurements will work for you and pick and choose!
go to:
http://www.gorilla-auto.com/lug.nuts.page_05
I use those for my thicker spacers only!!! i use these below for my thiner ones!

ALSO,

see the ones above that i use "ACORN BULGE OPEN END" - notice how they have a "Bulge" on them..........NO MATTER WHAT!! i always use a thin wall socket.....
see how these also have a "BULGE" to STOP the socket:



You want the "BULGE" on the nut so that the socket doesn't spin and hit the inside wall of the spacer and gouge out the spacer.........that will lead in spacer failure!!!

Notice how the failure node was the thinest section of aluminum between the bolt holes:

Thats what we call net area - tension failure.....



aside from gorilla that are 21mm tall(.825) i have found these that are 16.5mm tall:

I like to use these lug nuts.....they use a 17mm hex socket to install them and are M12x1.25 of course.

They are 16.5mm tall:


MY350z.com VENDOR [email protected] has the capability to get them for $2.00 each!!!!!
SEE HERE:

https://my350z.com/forum/8643797-post224.html


Also found THIS SITE TO SELL INDIVIDUAL LUG NUTS FOR SPACERS but they are 5 bucks each!!!
http://www.upgrademotoring.com/wheels/whl_acc.htm
on the UPGRADEMOTORING.COM site, they are right below the project kic 4 prong picture...

There is no picture shown for them- the description states:

Project KICS Special Lug Nuts to bolt on their spacers to your car. For 20mm, 25mm, and 30mm thick spacers. 20-30mm Spacer lugs are only 16.5mm tall. Please specify 12x1.5mm or 12x1.25mm. Standard 17mm Head. 12x1.25mm BUY NOW! 12x1.50mm BUY NOW!
When you click on the appropriate link, they are ITEM NUMBER:
Item #: WHLKICWKKYSLN20125

But i would recommend [email protected] for sure!!!

The next ones i found are these:

They are 11.5mm tall!!!! use a 17mm hex socket also.
Contact vendor M-motorsports - vendor here on our site:
https://my350z.com/forum/members/139...torsports.html
Also $2.00 each with flat $9 shipping from overseas.



Oh, and i figured you guys would want to know what smart puppy I have been referring too.........

sorry...here..

-J
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Old 04-01-2009, 09:55 AM
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Old 04-01-2009, 10:00 AM
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^ nice addition militia........

thanks,
-J

Edit*

Wanted to add this:

GREAT INFO HERE ON USE/NEED OF THINNER SPACERS - USUALLY TO CLEAR BBK (BIG BRAKE KITS)

THANKS TO HKS for a good thread and link to manufacturer of custom built spacers --

https://my350z.com/forum/wheels-and-t...l-spacers.html

-J

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Old 04-02-2009, 12:20 PM
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from my other thread:

https://my350z.com/forum/wheels-and-...l-spacers.html

Can we get some negatives on spacers? Thanks!
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Old 04-02-2009, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by jdella681 View Post
from my other thread:

https://my350z.com/forum/wheels-and-...l-spacers.html

Can we get some negatives on spacers? Thanks!


here:

Ok, so after researching and checking out wheel spacers I decided to do either of the following: 30mm rears 25mm front, or 25mm rear 20mm front (either Concept Z or Ichiba v2's). However, I've been hearing mixed things about running with spacers, esp when I asked the guys at firestone lol (just wanted to hear what they had to say).

So with that I'd like to know the drawbacks of having them installed? And does the ride quality suffer (eg. shakey steering.. things like that)? Is there more maintenance required to make sure my wheels don't fly off lol? My friends say they wouldn't do it b/c you're putting more stress on the hub and could wear out faster, which makes sense. But I see so many people on this site run them so it seems as if you guys are comfortable with these.

Here's my driving habits: I don't drive the car hard and take corners at insane speeds, it's not my daily driver I rotate with another car '98 Maxima (I prolly drive it 3-4 times a week).

If anyone has opinions and/or cons about driving with spacers I'd greatly appreciate it
No dude, dont worry about it, many have run spacers and for the most part our hubs can take the added strain no problem. bearings havent been failing left or right to warrant telling you other wise. Could a bearing fail........sure, weather it was the sole cause of a spacer........i highly doubt it...

only con really, is dealing with them, removing them, etc...one more thing to mess with......

-J
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