Track-able Street Tires
 

For those of us who track our Z/G's on street tires, I just wanted to get your take on how your tires are holding up at the track.

I have been running Kumho MX (255/40/17) for ~14 track days, and they have started chunking recently, and its slowly getting worse. I noticed the front chunking got worse after I stiffened up my front sways.

So let's share/compare our thoughts on our tires. I'll start, feel free to add more items to the list:-

Tire Brand:- Kumho Ecsta MX
Size:- 255/40/17
Favorite psi:- 47 hot
Mods:- 350EVO sways, Ferodo DS2500 pads
Wear rate:- ~14 track days and ~2000 miles of street driving. They have ~30% life in them (aside from the chunking).
Review:- These tires seem to hold up at the track well, they hold their own and don't get overheated easily on 25min track sessions. Grip levels are high for a tire at this price, but probably a little less grippy than Azenis or AD07's. Tires are loud when driving on street. Braking on these are great, I've pulled 1.6G's on the brembo brakes. Instructors that ride with me always comment on how sticky they are for street tires. Overall, I think these are great starter HPDE tires, but there are better out there.

I realize this MAY not be what you're looking for in a response...

The MX is an excellent DE tire... but it would be even better if you adjusted you air pressures. 47psi hot is WAY too high. You should be striving for around 40 psi max pressure hot. That's generally the magic number for most HP street tires. 47psi, combined with a stiff front sway bar is probably causing your car to push enough so that you're over-heating the tires, causing them to chunk. Also, 14 track days is a lot to ask of a set of tires on a 350Z. You may have reached their limit.

Tire Brand:- Falkin Rt-615
Size:- 245/45/17 all around/stock 05 rims for track use/19" for street.
Favorite psi:- 30 hot
Mods:- stoptech 13" front/EBC yellowstuuf pads/Eibach sportlines/Eng mods
Wear rate:- 5 track days, get gressy when real hot out 90+, wear good for street tire, predictable-good feel tire, stiff side walls+
Review:- These tires are good to drive to the track with and then track them. I would still get r-compounds if I didn't have to change tiresonce at the track-maybe later own the line. Good feel but will slide too much when the weather gets hot.

I dont have much to comment, but for those looking for an all-season tire with great handling, the bridgestone potenza re960 AS pole positions are great. I had kuhmo ASX before and these have a smaller width (both were 275/45) and yet are stickier. They did chunk a little on autoX, but they only have 150 miles on them lol.

Tire Brand:- Bridgestone Potenza RE050A Pole Position
Size:- 285/30/18 Front 295/30/18 Rear
Favorite psi:- ~34 hot
Mods:- Check www.DoubleDown350Z.com way too much to list.
Wear rate:- 4 time attacks and you can't even tell they have been beat on.
Review:- Best street tire I have ever driven. Grip is unbelieveable for a street tire. Won my class on them at California Speedway :).

I am a big fan of the RT-615's too, especially as cheap as they are. The Bridgestone RE050's are getting a lot of positive feedback though. Suprisingly, the BFG KDW's handle track abuse pretty good for a rain tire. They get a little slippery when they heat up, and you can't push them as hard as the dry weather tires, but they beat the snot out of the OEM tires.

I can't find Falken RT-615 in the right sizes for stock 18" wheels..what sizes would you suggest? no 245-45-18 available

agreed, i seen nothing but amazing review on these tires, i currently have the re50s on the GT wheels setup on the GT 06/07 Zs with the 19s (rays) in the rears and 18s in the front. Since they come with re50s 255 in the front and 265 in the back im thinking of getting re50 pole positions in a 275 size for the rear. For extra grip for my future track days.


btw are any of these events on the speed channel. Loving the website. man road racing is the sht

Thanks! Select episodes of Redline TV have covered some of the time attacks and ESPN2's Import Racers did a show about it too. You can watch the Import Racer's show on my website in the gallery section. I don't have any link to the Redline TV stuff though.

Thanks Stack. Some of the instructors I talk to say the same thing regarding tire psi's. However, oddly enough, when I run 42 hot the tires grip fall off drastically after about 15mins of lapping. The grip seems more consistent when I run them high, i.e. ~47 hot. This baffles me as well, but ~47 somehow 'feels' better. Also, using the old shoe polish trick, the tires seem to be rolling over just right at this high pressure.

I have not tried as low as 40 hot, but I will the next event.

Check this list out ... they don't have the exact stock sizes, but close enough.

http://www.vulcantire.com/azenis_rt615_t.htm

#1
Tire Brand: BRIDGESTONE POTENZA RE-01R
Size: 245/45/17 All Around
Favorite psi:- ~37 front, ~35 rear HOT (should be lower actually, need to keep testing)
Mods: AutoX Setup -> Hotchkis Front Sway Bar and Koni Yellows
Wear rate: They are holding up as well as the Kumho Ecsta MXs but have much better grip.
Review: Very grippy, very stiff sidewall. My favorite of all street tires. They are also
decent in the rain so thats a plus. I'd say they are worth ~0.5 seconds on a 55sec AutoX course vs the Kumho MXs.


#2
Tire Brand: GOODYEAR EAGLE F1 GS-D3
Size: 245/45/17 FRONT, 255/45/17 REAR
Favorite psi:- ~43 front, ~40 rear HOT
Mods: AutoX Setup: Hotchkis Front Sway Bar and Koni Yellows
Wear rate: Incredible wear rate considering how sticky they are
Review: Very, very good tires. Right there between the Kumho Ecsta MXs and the Bridgestone RE-01R.
These tires are awesome in the rain also.


#3
Tire Brand: KUMHO ECSTA MX
Size: 245/45/17 All Around
Favorite psi:- ~44 Front, ~47 Rear Hot (for AutoX)
Mods: AutoX Setup: Hotchkis Front Sway Bar and Koni Yellows
Wear rate: Can't say exactly, but I felt they wore very quickly
Review: Great tire, they break away really slowly giving you time to catch/correct, confidence inspiring.

If you have the 8.5in wheel, you can probably get away with a 255/40/18. Tire calculator on 1010tire says 255 minimum rim size is 8.5in. Would be about 2.5% difference in overall circumference.

TK

Anyone have any experience with toyo t1r's at the track?

my question is, is anyone getting together a damn track event.(south east lol) i havent been to one since pocono (up north),....this is really giving the credit card itch ...man. seriously. lol.

Was at Pocono in May, VIR in September. Glen, Lime Rock and Shenandoah in October. The Z is giving it one last ride before i get a new car

Also, I thought I would throw in that the Bridgestone RE01R is actually a little better than the RE050A Pole Position. Its the same compound as the RE050A, but it has a better tread pattern that gives the tire more rubber on the ground than the RE050A. The only reason I don't run those on the Z is because they don't come in any optimal sizes for my setup. I do run them on my Evo though with 265/35/18 all around.

Tire Brand: Kumho ecsta MX

Size: 255/40-17 front 275/40-17 rear

Favorite psi: 45 front and 43-44 rear (hot)

Mods: AutoX Setup/: RS-R Ti2000 springs, Hotchkis sways (R=softest F=one hole in from softest. +80%stiffer rear, +48% stiffer front) Quaife differential.

Wear rate: Good. In addition to a few thousand road-trip miles and less than a thousand DD miles, (I don't use dedicated "track" tires) Rears get about 50 runs on autocross tracks. Fronts get twice that when remounted halfway through a season.

Review: Good grip. Nice smooth loss of traction once pushed over the limit, and they love the heat. My last visit to the Tail of the Dragon, I drove hard enough to heat the tires up to about 45psi. (from a cold 37 psi) The tires just gripped better and better and better.....

These are your friends:

www.motorsportreg.com

www.trackschedule.com

Hey Joey,

I’m taking a slight tangent here, I think it might help though. I’m guessing you’ve had Autocross experience before you did driver events? The shoeshine trick isn’t much used on a full race track. If your tires are rolling on their side wall, you basically have an alignment problem. Upping the tire pressure to compensate will do all sorts of nasty things the tire. Including blistering, premature wear and reduced grip level.

Follow Stacy’s advice. A street tire that works for 15 minutes is actually doing very good at the track! Part of the game is to listen to your tire and not work them overt their limit. Take it a bit slower to allow them to last a full session if necessary. Tires will always overheat if you’re over driving them, even R compounds.

Back on topic, I’ve heard really good comment on the track endurance of the Hankook Ventus Z212. You might want to check them out next.

If you overheat your tires, you will most likely see it feather or a nice blue streak on the edge of the tire

How weird, i've seen the blue streak on my t1r's before. I was wondering what the hell it was. I thought it was rubbing against the rear fender even though my rear fenders are rolled. lol

nope heat

Do different tire brands handle different temperatures? My falken azenis 615's on my 06' never got that hot, but these 19" toyos have gotten that blue streak before.

yup. i could overheat the azenis, but they dont have nearly as much oil coming out as the stock 040

Yup, good points. I will have to do some tweaking with the pressures the next time I'm at the track. Hopefully I'll have Traqmate too so I can tell for sure what difference each makes.

Proper tire management is one of the keys to winning races. I don't know of any racing series or class where tires provide the same grip at the end of the race as they provided at the start of the race. A fast, race winning driver knows how to conserve his tires while still turing fast laps. Its one of the two most difficult things to learn as a racer; proper braking is the other.

If your tires go away significantly in the middle of a track session, you as the driver have made a mistake. What you're trying to achieve is a gradual/predictable reduction in grip over the entire session so that you have more tire then your other competitors for the last couple laps. This requires a lot of "feel" for what the tires are doing and this "feel" can only be learned with seat time. Some race drivers never get the feel.

Going back on topic. This is like an autobiography of my experience with tires on the Z.
Started out with...
Tire: Bridgestone Potenza RE040 (OEM)
Miles: 16000
Size: Stock 17"
Pressure: 36 psi (warm)
Wheels: Stock 17"
Mods: too few :( See the sig
Highs: Lots of feedback at 60+ mph = confidence in the corners
Lows: Not enough grip. Too easy to break loose. Will break loose at the first sign of heat. Heats up very quick.

Moved to...
Tire: Goodyear Eagle F1
Miles: 18000
Size: 225/50 17 front, 235/50 17 rear (stock sizes)
Pressure: ~40 psi (hot) all around
Wheels: OEM 17
Mods: too few :( See the sig
Highs: Loads of grip for a 280 treadwear rating. Long-lasting. Can take lots of heat and maintain consistent grip.
Lows: The softest sidewall I've ever felt on a "sport" tire, which numbs the driver. Little-to-no road feedback. On the auto-X, I rolled the hell out of the sidewall. You will only think this is a good tire if you are not a seasoned driver or are using it for straight-line.

Currently driving...
Tire: Bridgestone Potenza RE050A (2007 OEM tires)
Miles: 2000
Size: 225/45 18 front, 245/45 18 rear
Pressure: 38 psi (hot)
Wheels: 18" 35th Anniversary cast wheels
Mods: Still the same
Highs: Very grippy and stiff, very, very, very stiff sidewalls. Beautiful inside/outside sidewall design gives great feedback in corner carving. Seems to last longer and take more heat than the 040, even though same treadwear rating (140).
Lows: Not as grippy as the RE-01R, so I got beat by my brother's S2000 (which has RE-01R's). :(

225/40-18 and 245/40-18 Falken 615's on my stock wheels. So far 4 trackdays and 6 autocrosses. Tread is about 30% left , they do seemt o get greasy when overheated , but cool down in just a couple corners of backing out if it. Next set will be 265/35 and 275/35 615's.

Edit , tire pressure.. I usually run them at 31 cold and go for a target of 36 to 37 PSi hot.

Little thing we have discovered about the 615's. The greesiness of them seems to occur if the pressures get over 40 lbs, not the actual heat in them, especially if they get in the 43-45 lbs range. By letting them start lower and build up to 39, 40 PSI, they stayed consistent.

Good info! I was starting to doubt the fathomed 615. I might give it a try eventually.

If you can fork the cash, I think the PS2 are just as capable. I don't know how they compare, but the RE01 seems to be very nice too. I had the Azenis 615, I absolutely hated it. Car rode very harsh, it was also very noisy and the 350z can easily overpower those tires.

PS2s are great on the track. Ran 2 days on them at the Glen, day at Lime Rock, day at NHIs.

Just ran NHIS on RE050A PPs. Not bad. Not my favorite either. I liked the PS2s more overall... I'm looking forward to moving up to a stickier tire next year but these are quite fun up to (and slightly beyond) their limits ;)

for what its worth, over the weekend I was forced to switch back to my street tires. on the front i have one of the cheapest tires made for the size I wanted. I have Sumitumo 245/46/18 on the front and they held up fairly well. They did tend to get a bit greasy at the end of the session but I had expected that. I was running at Rockingham and that track is hell on some front tires and brakes. Needless to say, I went through both. Anyhow... I run my car hard. as anyone that was there will say, I don't take it to easy unless I have to. The tires by days end looked great. Initial turn in required a bit of tedious input but overall I have to admit they did great. Cheap tire that if I had to find somethign in a hurry to have for a track day, I would definately buy again. I tried Kuhmo Ectas something something before and didn't care much for them. They melted down rather quickly and this was when I was just starting to get into track days.

edit: I also run Hawk HP Plus all around with high temp fluid on oem non-brembo calipers/rotors and only a few times did I over brake the tires. It was more my mistake trying not to come in to hot then it was the tire.

- as a street tire they have been great so far. haven't had them but a month or so. they are quiet and from what little rain has come around here, they did great too.

+1
Tire: Bridgestone Potenza RE050A (2007 OEM tires)
Miles: 3000 street
Size: 225/45 18 front, 245/45 18 rear
Pressure: 38 psi (hot)
Wheels: 18" rays track
Mods: springs sways

these were great but looking for more grip for cornerspeed from an r compound

i am trying to figure out new r compound size set up for kumho take offs that i have

+1 on the Goodyear GSD3 F1 tires. Had them on my G35 and they were tracked at autox and Motor Sport Ranch, and they are AWESOME in the wet and dry, and great on the track! :)

Excellent wear rate as well.

New track rim/tire set-up for 08.
 

Wanted a wider rim, so I treated myself.

17x10 +25 5zigen FN01RC's in flat black, with 275/40 NT01's.

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k4...x/DSCF1405.jpg
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k4...x/DSCF1401.jpg
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k4...x/DSCF1407.jpg
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k4...x/DSCF1404.jpg
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k4...x/DSCF1403.jpg
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k4...x/DSCF1406.jpg
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k4...x/DSCF1400.jpg
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k4...x/DSCF1402.jpg

In the pics I was lazy and left my 10mm spacer in the back. They rubbed slightly, which doesnt matter much because I was not planning on running it at the track.

looks sick!

You suck , really you do.

Same set i want , hopefully mid spring i should have them. Same tires too.

???? what splitter is that on the front bumper???

Wheels look good...

Veilside version 1.





After looking at it closely the front rims BARELY fit! The front tires are close to the outer fender, but I'm only running -1.5 camber. I change it to -3 at the track.

Looks excellent! Thanks for the pics!

Nice! :-)

And vaguely familiar looking... he he

Nice. I love it. How neutral does the car feel? How is the understeer compared to a staggered set-up? Also loving the caged Sentra.

I haven't ran it on the track yet, but my old set-up was with 17x9's all around.

They felt VERY neutral and being able to rotate the tires every event is a big plus.

^^ yup. Another reason why I want to go equal sizes on all corners. Do any of you guys drift on this set-up? I'm on 245 rears and 225 fronts and all I do is understeer on the entries. I've resorted to clutch-kicking simply because feint/gas and feint/brake gets me massive understeer (+ our e-brakes are worthless). Frankly, I shouldnt have to with the horsepower we have. I've had every type of tire and combinations on there, too. super grippy, fronts, backs, worn to the wires, stock potenzas, etc. Just wondering if you guys see the understeer go away or if it is persistent.