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Developing a FAQ page for Suspension
I'd like to develop a FAQ page for suspension. Please help me create this page by asking the question and answering it if possible. Only relevent questions please....
Here's my first question to start off...... Q: What's the differance between linear rate and pregressive rate springs? A:?????? Thanks, Victor :) |
The spring rate is the rate at which a spring will compress a specified distance with an applied force acting against it. Typically this is expressed in lbs-in. A spring with a 350 lbs/in. rate will depress 1 in. for every 350 lbs. applied to the spring. A linear rate designates the spring has uniform measure in regard to the springs dimensions from top to bottom. A linear spring's rate can be measured:
spring rate = 11,250,000 x ( d to the 4th power) / 8 x N x ( D to the 3rd power) d = outside wire diameter in inches N = number of active, or complete, coils D = mean, or center, wire diameter The other two numbers are constants for steel springs. A variable rate spring is a coil spring that is not uniform in measure in regard to the spring's dimensions from top to bottom. The diameter of the wire may vary, or the overall diameter of the spring may taper, or a combination of both to alter the spring's rate of compression at some point. A progressive rate will require progressively more weight to compress the spring one inch the further it travels. If our before mentioned 350lb-in. spring was progressive, it might have a 375lb-in rate the next inch, and a 400lb-in rate the following inch. Variable, or progressive, rate springs cannot be measured easily. In both spring types, the rate of compression is different than the load. The spring load is the amount of weight necessary to compress the spring a given measure. Our linear spring will compress 3 inches with a load of 1050 lbs acting on it, at a rate of 350lb-in. Our progresive rate spring will compress 3 inches with a load of 1125 lbs acting on it, at a varible rate of 350lb-in to 400 lb-in. Load is important only in designing springs to ensure proper support of the vehicle's weight, and will not affect handling performance. The rate of a spring is important in regards to handling, as it is the measure of force necessary to compress the spring. A progressive rate has the advantage of a softer rate to absorb small irregularities in the road surface, and then as it compresses, a higher rate to absorb larger irregularities. The problem with progressive springs is that in practice, a car's springs only operate in a limited range of their total travel, and therefore the amount of progression in spring rate must be kept small. A linear rate spring with the assistance of good jounce bumpers or stops like Koni's uerathane design have often proven the better route. |
Coil Overs
Question:
How do you adjust the ride height with coil overs? Answer: I don't know, but I think you do. |
On a coil-over the spring rests on a perch that is threaded around the damper casing. The threads allow the perch to be rotated either right or left, which in turn moves the perch up or down relative to the damper. Since the spring load has already been carefully chosen by the coil-over manufacturer to support the weight of the vehicle, the spring will not compress as the perch moves upward. Therefore, the body of the car will raise as the perch is rotated up the damper body and conversly drop in height as the perch is rotated down the damper body.
Now the damper is attached to the top perch that retains the top of the spring, and the bottom of the spring is compressed onto the bottom perch that is able to rotate up or down the damper. Since the spring does not compress or expand as the bottom perch is rotated, the damper must accomodate the difference in length by expanding or compressing as ride height changes. As can be imagined, the damper then must sacrifice some travel as the spring is moved down in relation to the casing, and gain some travel as the spring is moved up the casing. With this in mind, a coil-over can be adjusted the full length of the threaded damper body by turning the bottom perch, but must be done with consideration to the amount of travel offered by the damper either in full extension or compression. A coil-over for strut type suspensions may have a threaded body with two perches isolating the knuckle mount. This allows the ride height to be raised up or down in regards to the mounting position on the knuckle rather than sacrificing damper travel. |
Q: What are sway bars? Why is thicker better? Why is solid better?
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Sway bars tie the front front wheels together and the rear wheels together. They are torsion springs, which means that as you twist one end of the sway bar, a force will be generated on the other end. That force will be dependent on the spring rate of the sway bar, which is determined by the bar's size and shape. In general, sway bars are shaped like a flattened U, with the wheels at the vertical sides and with the bottom stretching across the car to connect the left and right sides.
In practice, when you corner and compress the outside suspension of the car, the movement of the outside suspension will wind up the sway bar which will then exert a compressive force on the inside suspension. This helps keep the car flatter in the corners. The higher the stiffness of the sway bar, the more force generated on the inside suspension, and the flatter the car will be. As far as whether bigger is better or solid is better, I don't believe that is necessarily the case. What is important is determining a torsional stiffness that is best for your specific application. When you go to a larger diameter or a solid bar, the stiffness increases, which may be good or bad depending on your application. The adjustable sways typically work by changing the length of the vertical sections of the U. A long section will be less stiff than a short section, so by providing a series of optional connection points the user can adjust the effective length of the vertical U sections, the therefore change the springrate. -D'oh! |
D'oh made some great points about anti-roll bars, but to add, an anti-roll bar will unload the inside tires very quickly compared to running springs alone, and the stiffness of a bar is dependent on the diameter of the bar.
A vehicle's body roll is caused by weight transfer, and weight tansfer cannot be changed except by changing vehicle design like wheelbase, track width, Cg height, etc. Body roll in and of itself is not a bad thing except for aerodynamics at high speed and camber change on the tires. By limiting it though we not only help alleviate these two problems, but can also manipulate the weight transfer on the car. The bars work to limit body roll, like D'oh said, as torsion bars - they resist the twisting motion created when the inside tire extends and the outside tire compresses in a turn. The bar is connected to the suspension by a lever arm on each end. If you were to hold one arm and turn it, the other end would follow suit. The same happens with your car in a turn. The outside suspension compresses, raising one of the arms from its neutral position. The inside arm wants to raise as well, but has the weight of the car and the extension of the spring working against it. The stiffer the anti-roll bar, the more resistance it has to the differences in lever arm height, and the more "push" the inside lever arm will have against the inside suspension and the forces against it. This resistance is what limits the body roll, but increases the wt transfer to the outside tire, and is why too stiff an anti-roll bar cannot be used. The wt transfer can compress the outside suspension and raise the outside lever arm of the bar, so that too stiff an anti-roll bar will in turn compress the inside suspension with equal force on the inside lever arm- raising the tire. This is not what you want on the driven end of the vehicle, where the tire contact patches must be kept as large as possible. This is the trade-off of using bars. They are wonderful to control the roll angle of the car without resorting to stiffer springs, but can cause unwanted contact loss at either end of the vehicle. Since the forces that roll the car are fed into the bar and the suspension as described above, the compression the bar exerts on the suspension components as it is twisted can be controlled by the length of the lever arms. Without the arms, the pure tension force of the bar would act on the suspension, but with the lever arms, the suspension has some leverage over the bar's stiffness to reduce compression from the bar. This allows the amount of stiffness, and therefore the rate of compression, exerted by the bar to be adjusted by varying the length of the lever arms, which some manufacturers incorporate into their design. However, unlike springs, a bar's compression rate will apply against the inside tire's extension as much as towards the outside tire's compression, which is why and how they can alter the amount of wt transfer so easily. The compression rate the bar has on the suspension is linear and can be easily measured and incorporated into suspension design. The equation is fairly simple and can be found in about any auto math book. This allows a bar to be selected that not only limits roll to a desired effect, but also assists spring compression and weight transfer into corners as desired. The arm lengths on an ant-roll bar do not affect the stiffness of the bar, but are the means by which to determine how much of the bar's stiffness will be transmitted to the car's suspension. Bar stiffness is a measure of diameter to the 4th power. Increase the diameter of an anti-roll bar from 1 inch to 1 1/4 inch and you just increased the bar's stiffness 144 percent. Where a solid bar adds weight but not stiffness, it is marginally stronger against fatigue from compressive and tension forces, all else being equal, as the stress will be distributed through more mass. It has also come to my attention that solid bars are more common in the aftermarket for this reason alone, as the extra mass provides a safe buffer against yield that would otherwise be more sudden on a lighter hollow bar. edit: tried to help clarify some things |
Q: How do anti-roll bars change the handling balance of the car?
A: The anti-roll bars can be used to affect wt transfer front vs. rear by changing the front bar diameter or arm length, relative to the rear bar diameter or arm length. If the car is understeering, there is either too much wt transfer on the front outside tire or too little on the rear outside tire. A less stiff bar on the front will relieve some of the wt transfered to the outside tire, and a stiffer bar out back will increase the wt transfered to the rear outside tire. If the car is oversteering, too much wt transfer is on the rear outside tire, or not enough wt transfer is on the front outside tire. A less stiff rear bar will lessen the wt transfer to the outside tire, and a stiffer front bar will increase the wt transfer to the outside tire. In both instances, anti-roll bars can be used to keep the front and rear outside tires equally loaded, thereby keeping the car's balance in a turn neutral. However, considerations should be made to the driven end of the vehicle, so that as light an anti-roll bar as posible is used to maintain as much traction as possible on the inside tire. |
What are strut bars? How do they work?
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Strut bars are rigid bars bolted to the top spring mounts on a car. They are designed to stiffen the body where it will benefit handling and weight transfer the most. When a car turns and wt is transfered to the outside of the car, the body can flex and absorb some of the forces that cause body roll. This is not desirable because the body can unload these forces quickly, like releasing a spring, and upset the handling balance of the car with sudden wt distribution. The chassis can also deteriorate feedback from steering and suspension systems by absorbing some of their forces generated as well. Finally, since the wt is ultimately carried to each of the four tires, the suspension is the most vulnerable area to be affected by chassis flex, as they will have to bear any additional torsion load created by the twisting body. By connecting the top of the suspension together, a more efficient means of wt transfer is created through a stiffer structure than the open body alone - just as ant-roll bars are more efficient. The stiffer chassis is not only more adept to properly transfer wt to the tires, which assists in proper tuning, but will provide better feedback and response from all the suspension and steering components as their forces will not be dampened by the body.
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How do traction rods work? Do they also adjust camber?
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Good idea, Mike.
Though I occassionly put the metal all the way down & enjoy the twisty-turneys as much as others, my primary use of the Zzzz is as a cruisor. Add that I want my wife & I to take more/longer trips in the Zzz which means encountering more roads causing a bumpy ride......a condition wifey does not like. Question: What can I do to give the Zzzz a more luxury car style ride? (Besides trading the wife in on a "sportier" model who will not fuss......LOL!). I'm not going to be taking the Brick to the outer edge of performance limits so I don't mind giving up preformance for a more comfortable ride. |
Originally posted by Yielar How do traction rods work? Do they also adjust camber? |
Originally posted by The Rat's Z Question: What can I do to give the Zzzz a more luxury car style ride? In order to change the ride feel of a vehicle, the optimum factor for tuning to a person's preference begins with the car's suspension frequency. The suspension frequency is the rate at which the spring will travel it's full cycle- compression to extension and back to neutral - in a given amount of time. This rate is measured in CPS, or cycles per second. The higher the frequency, the stiffer the ride, and ultimately the better handling potential of the vehicle. Several factors affect a suspension's frequency but, since luxury is what we're after over ultimate performance, it is the spring rate that is most important. A lighter spring will lower the CPS of the suspension. For the 350Z, a 400 in-lbs or less spring should be desirable. This will, with a good damper, better absorb the impacts of road irregularities and lessen the force transmitted to the chassis. This will unfortunately also allow more body roll. To help keep a sporty feel and good handling characteristics, a lighter spring should be accompanied by a well-matched anti-roll bar and damper assembly. It is an option to match the stock damper with an aftermarket spring alone, however, the simple fact is that it is harder to match a spring to a damper than it is to design a damper for the spring. In other words, 9 out of 10 times, a reputable system that includes a damper will give a more comfortable ride and better performance than just a spring that was designed for the stock damper. There are, undoubtably, springs alone that would perform better than the stock set-up for a softer ride, but would be hard pressed to beat a softer coil-over design that has been properly tuned. If the design also includes ant-roll bars to match, then a complete package would be the odds favorite for the ultimate in a comfortable yet well handling design. Finally, for a smoother, less disturbing ride, pay attention to the mounts and bushings offered with the kit. Hard materials like polyurethane or nylon will transmit more force to the chassis than stock rubber mounts, and pillow-ball mounts should be avoided at all cost. A well-designed coil-over like the Tein CS might be a good place for you to start looking. I believe Tein posts their spring rates and ride height information, along with pictures, for this unit. www.tein.com |
Several people have been adding traction rods to their Z's. Do a search and you'll know what I'm talking about. From what I've read they reduce wheel hop providing more traction off the line. I was just hoping someone with some expertise in this area could explain their job.
Yielar |
Nice response, resolute. appreciate it.
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What is corner-weighting?
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Corner Weigthing is ussually done in Cars that have Coilover suspensions with height adjustability. What they do is place each of the four corners(wheels) of the car on weighing scales. They then take the measurements regarding weight on each corner. They also take the the weight of the driver and put a similar weigth on the driver side and they adjust the ride height until the can get the right weights on each corner of the vehicle. The reason this is done is to be ablt to achieve a specific weight ratio depending what the person wants to achieve. A 50/50 wieght split front/rear or even 25% on each corner. The ratio really depends on the preference of the driver. Raising and lowering of ride hegth affects the weigth applied in each corner. The end result might not be all four corners perfectly matched height wise. BUt the car will be very well blanced. I had it done to my Audi S4 and it made a really big difference in how the car handled without any other mods added after. Most Companies that sell coilovers recommend that this is done when switching to coilovers. The overall process is basically fine tuning more than anything else.
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Softer Ride
For a nicer ride, you may want to switch to a 17" rim because the larger tire side walls will help smooth up the bumps. The performance model has 18s. Maybe buy someones G35 coupe springs and swap.
Originally posted by The Rat's Z Good idea, Mike. Though I occassionly put the metal all the way down & enjoy the twisty-turneys as much as others, my primary use of the Zzzz is as a cruisor. Add that I want my wife & I to take more/longer trips in the Zzz which means encountering more roads causing a bumpy ride......a condition wifey does not like. Question: What can I do to give the Zzzz a more luxury car style ride? (Besides trading the wife in on a "sportier" model who will not fuss......LOL!). I'm not going to be taking the Brick to the outer edge of performance limits so I don't mind giving up preformance for a more comfortable ride. |
What are the pros and cons of a progressive vs linear spring?
What is the lowest we can go in the Z without other suspension modifications, and what springs are these? |
I thought about the 17 inchers, 350ed. Problem is I've really got sucked into the look of the 18s so will have to do what I can with suspension componets.
By the way, "mum's" the word on the 17 vs 18 if any one meets my wifey!!! She just doesn't get it on sacrificing a few bumps for a really great look! LOL! |
Is a spring compressor needed to do a coilover install?
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Originally posted by The Brickyard Rat Good idea, Mike. Though I occassionly put the metal all the way down & enjoy the twisty-turneys as much as others, my primary use of the Zzzz is as a cruisor. Add that I want my wife & I to take more/longer trips in the Zzz which means encountering more roads causing a bumpy ride......a condition wifey does not like. Question: What can I do to give the Zzzz a more luxury car style ride? (Besides trading the wife in on a "sportier" model who will not fuss......LOL!). I'm not going to be taking the Brick to the outer edge of performance limits so I don't mind giving up preformance for a more comfortable ride. Of course for the Z, those tires would not take the place of a good suspension match and I have already pre-ordered Konis matched to my springs, etc., but I will consider the GT all season tires when the Michelin A/Ss wear out. Just a thought, I bought the Z as a fun travel car and it worked reasonably well away from home, but my roads are too poor to tolerate the stock setup. After the Konis are installed, we will take the Z on shorter trips, 2 or 3 days at a time, and I have no regrets turning it into more of a Tourer, the stock setup is intolerable. |
Originally posted by Resolute I hope someone else will comment or review on their experience with a softer suspension set-up, as unfortunately I cannot. However, I might help you with some things to consider as you shop around. In order to change the ride feel of a vehicle, the optimum factor for tuning to a person's preference begins with the car's suspension frequency. The suspension frequency is the rate at which the spring will travel it's full cycle- compression to extension and back to neutral - in a given amount of time. This rate is measured in CPS, or cycles per second. The higher the frequency, the stiffer the ride, and ultimately the better handling potential of the vehicle. Several factors affect a suspension's frequency but, since luxury is what we're after over ultimate performance, it is the spring rate that is most important. A lighter spring will lower the CPS of the suspension. For the 350Z, a 400 in-lbs or less spring should be desirable. This will, with a good damper, better absorb the impacts of road irregularities and lessen the force transmitted to the chassis. This will unfortunately also allow more body roll. To help keep a sporty feel and good handling characteristics, a lighter spring should be accompanied by a well-matched anti-roll bar and damper assembly. It is an option to match the stock damper with an aftermarket spring alone, however, the simple fact is that it is harder to match a spring to a damper than it is to design a damper for the spring. In other words, 9 out of 10 times, a reputable system that includes a damper will give a more comfortable ride and better performance than just a spring that was designed for the stock damper. There are, undoubtably, springs alone that would perform better than the stock set-up for a softer ride, but would be hard pressed to beat a softer coil-over design that has been properly tuned. If the design also includes ant-roll bars to match, then a complete package would be the odds favorite for the ultimate in a comfortable yet well handling design. Finally, for a smoother, less disturbing ride, pay attention to the mounts and bushings offered with the kit. Hard materials like polyurethane or nylon will transmit more force to the chassis than stock rubber mounts, and pillow-ball mounts should be avoided at all cost. A well-designed coil-over like the Tein CS might be a good place for you to start looking. I believe Tein posts their spring rates and ride height information, along with pictures, for this unit. www.tein.com |
Originally posted by Resolute I hope someone else will comment or review on their experience with a softer suspension set-up, as unfortunately I cannot. However, I might help you with some things to consider as you shop around. In order to change the ride feel of a vehicle, the optimum factor for tuning to a person's preference begins with the car's suspension frequency. The suspension frequency is the rate at which the spring will travel it's full cycle- compression to extension and back to neutral - in a given amount of time. This rate is measured in CPS, or cycles per second. The higher the frequency, the stiffer the ride, and ultimately the better handling potential of the vehicle. Several factors affect a suspension's frequency but, since luxury is what we're after over ultimate performance, it is the spring rate that is most important. A lighter spring will lower the CPS of the suspension. For the 350Z, a 400 in-lbs or less spring should be desirable. This will, with a good damper, better absorb the impacts of road irregularities and lessen the force transmitted to the chassis. This will unfortunately also allow more body roll. To help keep a sporty feel and good handling characteristics, a lighter spring should be accompanied by a well-matched anti-roll bar and damper assembly. It is an option to match the stock damper with an aftermarket spring alone, however, the simple fact is that it is harder to match a spring to a damper than it is to design a damper for the spring. In other words, 9 out of 10 times, a reputable system that includes a damper will give a more comfortable ride and better performance than just a spring that was designed for the stock damper. There are, undoubtably, springs alone that would perform better than the stock set-up for a softer ride, but would be hard pressed to beat a softer coil-over design that has been properly tuned. If the design also includes ant-roll bars to match, then a complete package would be the odds favorite for the ultimate in a comfortable yet well handling design. Finally, for a smoother, less disturbing ride, pay attention to the mounts and bushings offered with the kit. Hard materials like polyurethane or nylon will transmit more force to the chassis than stock rubber mounts, and pillow-ball mounts should be avoided at all cost. A well-designed coil-over like the Tein CS might be a good place for you to start looking. I believe Tein posts their spring rates and ride height information, along with pictures, for this unit. www.tein.com Stock spring rates F/R in lb/in 350Z and G35 coupe: 347/419 (remember the inboad location of the rear springs to the wheels and effective wheel rates) Tein CS coilovers 350Z/G35 Coupe & Sedan F/R spring rates Linear springs 392/392 +14% front -5% rear (19% transfer to front) If 448lbs springs are run in the rear, front to rear balance to OEM changes to: ($165 addtional cost to purchase seperately) 350Z/G35 Coupe +14 front +7% rear (7% transfer to front) |
i hope this isn't a dumb question but i know very little about suspensions.
i want to know what the difference is between getting coilovers and getting aftermarket shocks and springs? what are the pros and cons of each system? also into which category would the nismo s-tune suspension? tia, Rajiv |
What are the best front and rear dampening settings for full coilover systems in the following applications:
1. 1/4 mile 2. Autocross 3. Daily driving Thanks. |
How do you adjust ride height in rear coilovers since the spring and strut are separate?
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my suspension
1 Attachment(s)
Tein Flex Coil Overs with Electronic Damping Force Control
Nismo S-tune Swaybars Crawford front strut brace very happy with it :icon04: :icon4: :icon04: :icon4: :icon04: |
Q: Assuming that the NNA's toe-in solution for the feathering problem does not work, has there been any confirmed solution (via coilovers or spring kits) that resolves tire feathering?
[I'm just making the assumption, that long term we're all going to be dealing with the feathering. Sorry if this is a tad off topic, it does related to suspensions though...] |
Q: How much does it usually cost to install the coilover? I got quoted for $350 for installing Hypermax, expensive?
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Q: can someone breakdown the TEIN product line for the 350Z?
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Basic, CS, & Flex for the coilovers
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what is the difference between the 1 way, 1.5 way and 2 way lsd?
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Originally posted by Jung918 what is the difference between the 1 way, 1.5 way and 2 way lsd? A 1 way LSD will provide differential lock under forward acceleration only. It will act like a free dif under deceleration. A 2 way LSD will provide differential lock in both acceleration and deceleration A 1.5 way LSD will provide full differential lock under acceleration (like a 1 way LSD) and will provide a lesser degree of lock during deceleration |
VDC?
how does VDC actually work?
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bump on DJK's question.
and how exactly does changing the damper settings affect the cars handling characteristics? e.g. softening rear induces more oversteer? etc. I need the actual physics explaination plz. :] Originally posted by ___DJK___ What are the best front and rear dampening settings for full coilover systems in the following applications: 1. 1/4 mile 2. Autocross 3. Daily driving Thanks. |
Helpful info
Gsedan35 posted this over on 6mt.net:
Below is a much updated data base list for coilovers, I've added a number of new products, or products that I discovered specs for. I've done this to help myself out as I ponder what to get and to help the CVP35/V35/Z33 community out. What it tells you, 1. How much stiffer then oem each products springs are in percentage, this way you can get the stiffness you want or see where to avoid too much stiffness. 2. Tracks how the cars handling might be effected by a transfer of roll stiffness (watch out for large transfers). 3. Tells you as much as possible, the design and features offered. 4. Gives you special notes concerning details you might want to include in any buying decision. What to buy depends on what you want once the product is installed, as in comfort, sport, track, or race. How do you feel about brand name, the trust factor. What price point are you comfortable with. And should you pay extra for features you may want to have down the road in the future. Oem springs Front:314 Rear:342 Tein Flex (twin tube construction, adjustable dampners Full-length adjustment and height adjustment for separate setting of the height and spring preload 672/672 F+114% R+98 Transfers +16% roll stiffness to front Side Note: Extremely high spring rates mean even when the adjustable damping is set as low as possible, you may not find ride quality happiness, several reports of this setups harshness exist Yet a few owner comment’s of a “like stock ride quality” also exist. However given the fact that they use a spring stiffness that’s over 100% stiffer then oem, if ride quality is of concern, either hitch a ride in a car equipped with them or make a different choice. In addition, several review’s have been done by people actually having the original more softly sprung Tein Flex coilovers do not take their comments to mean the same as the one using the current product, the original product specs are listed below under Tein Flex JDM. Tein Flex JDM specs (can be special ordered est 6-8 weeks delivery) Full-length adjustment and height adjustment for separate setting of the height and spring preload 560/560 F+78% R+64% Transfers 14% roll stiffness to front Side Note: This is the original specs first offered in the U.S. with the Flex, shortly after it’s introduction the specs changed to those listed further above (672/672) Tein Basic (twin tube construction, non adjustable dampners ) 504/504 F+61% R+43% Transfers +18% roll stiffness to front Side Note: Excellent value at it’s price point, some very good reviews have been done by users of this coilover system. Tein SS (twin tube construction, adjustable dampners ) (JDM only at this time. 6-8 weeks delivery, come via ship) 392/314-392 (rear’s are progressive) F+25% R+15% at peak Tein CS (Monotube constructionad, adjustable dampners ) Side Note: A comfort ride system compare to HKS LS 392/392 F+25% R15% Transfers +10% roll stiffness to front Special Note: I had a conversation with Tein about this coilover. I called because I had a hunch that the comfort tuning designed into the system would prevent me from getting the dampning stiffness I wanted. When I told him I wanted a system that would be valved stiffer then oem 350Z shocks, he did not believe they were setup to do that. Revalving them would be $300 or so PER! dampner. Buddy Club Racing Spec coilovers (Monotube construction, adjustable dampning) Full-length adjustment and height adjustment for separate setting of the height and spring preload 748/280* (very likely run's rear springs on the dampner body and not at the oem rear spring location) Jic Flta-2 350Z fitment (Monotube construction, adjustable dampning) Full-length adjustment and height adjustment for separate setting of the height and spring preload Special Note: This setup is known for it’s street ride harshness, but also for track performance 560/672 F+78% R+98% Transfers +20% roll stiffness to rear Jic Flta-2 G35 coupe (Monotube, adjustable dampning) Full-length adjustment and height adjustment for separate setting of the height and spring preload 560/560 F+78% R+64% $1750 Transfers 14% roll stiffness to front Jic Flta-2 G35 sedan (Monotube, adjustable dampning) Full-length adjustment and height adjustment for separate setting of the height and spring preload 504/392 F+61% R+15% Transfers +46% roll stiffness to front Cusco Zero 1&2 (Monotube?, 1=non adjustable dampner, 2=adjustable dampner) Full-length adjustment and height adjustment for separate setting of the height and spring preload 560/392 F+78% R+15% Transfers +63% roll stiffness to front (no they do not run their rear springs on the dampner body, oem location, seen them on the car with my own eyes.) Side Note: Thats a awful lot of spring stiffness to move to the front Bilstein PSS coil over (Monotube construction, non adjustable dampners) Special Note: Mild spring rates, but Bilstein says the dampners are performance valved 370/240-420 (rear progressive) F +18% R +23% (at peak rear spring rate) Transfers +5% roll stiffness to rear Special Note: Very easy to ditch the rear progressive springs that come with the Bilsteins (I would) Eibach sell's linear 5" O.D. springs that you can swap in, $100 for the pair. Bilstein PSS9 coilover (Monotube construction, adjustable dampners) Special Note: Mild spring rates, but Bilstein says the dampners are performance valved 370/240-420 (rear progressive) F +18% R +23% (at peak rear spring rate) Transfers +5% roll stiffness to rear Special Note: Very easy to ditch the rear progressive springs that come with the Bilsteins (I would) Eibach sell's linear 5" O.D. springs that you can swap in, $100 for the pair. ATTENTION! HKS will be opening a U.S. service center very shortly, allowing for service and repair on their coilovers here, without sending them to Japan. HKS LS+ G35 Coupe (Monotube construction, adjustable dampners) 504/448 +58%front +29% (rear springs are progressive) transfers 29% roll stiffness to the front Side Note: Tuned more aggressively then the LS. Special Note: This G35 coupe version, while transfering roll stiffness to the front vs the same 350Z version, does actually use stiffer valving in it's dampners then the Z version. HKS LS+ 350Z (Monotube construction, adjustable dampners) 448/448 43%front +31% transfers 12% roll stiffness to the front Side Note: Tuned more aggressively then the LS, but not to the RS level, in spite of the RS actually using softer spring rates. Special Note: This 350Z version does not transfer as much roll stiffness to the front as the G35 version, but does use softer valving specs in it's dampners. HKS LS G35 (Monotube construction, non adjustable dampners) 448/336 F +43% R -1% transfers 44% roll stiffness to the front Special Note: A comfort ride system, compare to Tein CS coilover HKS LS 350z (Monotube construction, non adjustable dampners) 448/448 F43% R+31% transfers 12% roll stiffness to the front Special Note: A comfort ride system, spring rates make better sense then same G35 application, compare to Tein CS HKS II (Monotube construction, adjustable dampners) 504/504 F+61% R+47% transfers 14% roll stiffness to the front Special Note: sprung and valved to be HKS’s most aggressive product, it is a notch above the RS coil over on the track, compare to Tein Flex and Jic coilovers HKS RS (Monotube construction, adjustable dampning) 448/448 F+43% R+31% Transfers 12% roll stiffness to the front Special Note: “Marketed” as HKS’s track coil over with a good street ride, it is more aggressive then the HKS LS+ and does not transfer as much spring stiffness to the front. Zeal function V6 coilover (Monotube construction, adjustable dampner) $2855 Full-length adjustment and height adjustment for separate setting of the height and spring preload 560/448 F+78% R+31% Transfers +47% roll stiffness to front KW coilovers Variant's 1,2&3 Monotube construction, V1=non adjustable dampning, V2=adjustable damping, V3=separate adjustability for compression damping AND rebound damping and is the only product of it’s kind at this time. Front: 485lbs to 525Lbs Rear: 240Lbs to 548Lbs (progressive springs) D2 Racing Coilovers (Monotube) 840/728 F+168% R+113% (wee bit stiff eh, the recommended rate to) Transfers 55% roll stiffness to front Side Note: Only known application of this coilover was by a vendor wishing to sell it, upon installation it was determined that the ride quality was so poor that they were pulled from the car and any idea of carrying the product was shelved. Kg/mm DNA coilovers (Monotube construction, adjustable dampners) 840/280*+ JDM only at this time, $2700+ These look like they are made by buddy club. *They use rear springs on the rear coil over bodies AND a progressive spring in the oem location. The best I can get translating is that the progressive spring add’s 200lbs to the rear rate. Opps, the HKS RS should not say as a point of fact that they are valved stiffer then the LS+ (especially the G35 coupe version). I have not seen valving specs on the RS like I have with the other HKS products. I'm repeating what HKS said when I called and spoke to them. I would feel a lot better to actually see the specs however. |
Q: If I get new coilovers, when do I need to also get a camber kit?
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Re: my suspension
Originally posted by Egbert Souse Tein Flex Coil Overs with Electronic Damping Force Control Nismo S-tune Swaybars Crawford front strut brace very happy with it :icon04: :icon4: :icon04: :icon4: :icon04: |
I haven't finished reading everything.. but.. Resolute, who are you? From this thread, you are like Yoda.
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What is the advantage/disadvantages to a progressive spring vs a linear spring?
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Very quickly (and simply), the advantage of a non-linear (progressive rate) spring is the ability to give a softer ride when just driving normally, while stiffening up when you start to toss the car harder. As the car body rolls over, the spring becomes progressively stiffer, making it oppose further roll. It is trying to compromise between ride quality and body lean.
The down side is that it reacts to inputs like a soft spring, allowing more body lean before the stiffer rate begins to take effect, and it won’t feel as responsive to your steering requests. This is a quick and simple explanation, but hopefully it will give you a basic idea. |
it might be a dumb question but i want to get the hotchkis sway bar and there's 3 different setting on it. could someone tell me whats the best setting for daily driver and for a few canyon run? thanks for all the help:)
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Originally Posted by hndumafia
i hope this isn't a dumb question but i know very little about suspensions.
i want to know what the difference is between getting coilovers and getting aftermarket shocks and springs? what are the pros and cons of each system? also into which category would the nismo s-tune suspension? tia, Rajiv |
Originally Posted by ncparamedic
Ive been wandering this same question but it has never been answered either...what is the answer???
Individually, you replace the springs with an aftermarket set like Hotchkis or Eibach, and the damper with another aftermarket like Koni. You could replace them both with the same brand, like with the NISMO suspension, but you would still be replacing both pieces seperately. This allows you to mix and match dampers and springs from various manufacturers as well as simply make a modest improvement via springs alone. Obviously, this aproach allows a better handle on the cost of your suspension upgrade, but also some control over the fine tuning. Say, replacing the dampers with a set of adjustable Koni's and the springs with whatever brand you prefer to go with them. Coil-overs, however, are sold as a single unit (except the rears, just a moment on those..) The spring and damper are integrated together, which allows for some interesting benefits. The spring is held in place on the damper body by two collars, one atop and the other below. This allows ride hight to be adjusted by moving the spring further down the damper body. This in turn shortens the stroke of the damper by the same amount- not altogether a good thing. Some companies alleviate this by placing the damper on a threaded collar of its own, and it can by lowered on the mount without affecting stroke length. Either design would be imposible with a seperate spring and damper. Another benefit is gaining expert tuning of both damping rates and spring rates to work with each other for the best compromise in ride vs performance. In this area there is some judgment to be excercised from brand to brand. Some companies do this very well and would save you the hassle of trying to tune your own limited supply of dampers and springs, others ...won't. Do some research and use your best judgement. Coil-overs, because they are one unit, are often lighter than using a seperate spring and damper, saving on unsprun weight and improving response. They also usually take up less space. For the Z this is not a concern, but for vehicles with struts this can be. Finally, the rear of the Z utilizes, with most coil-overs, a seperate spring still because of the rear suspension design. The spring usually has a threaded collar to sit on to allow ride hight adjustment, while the damper sits in its own space outboard of the spring. Finally, either set-up can utilize adjustable dampers to fine tune your handling, although monotube coil-overs generally offer more selectability bewteen rates. High end dampers on coil-overs will allow seperate rebound and bounce adjustment to further fine tune your handling. Between the two options, it comes down to how much control and performance are you willing to gain for the money? Seperate springs and dampers can get you much better handling than stock, but fall short of the tunability and ultimate performance of a good set of coil-overs. Will |
Originally Posted by Resolute
You have basically two options when it comes to replacing the springs and dampers on your suspension. You can either replace them individually, or as a single unit.
Individually, you replace the springs with an aftermarket set like Hotchkis or Eibach, and the damper with another aftermarket like Koni. You could replace them both with the same brand, like with the NISMO suspension, but you would still be replacing both pieces seperately. This allows you to mix and match dampers and springs from various manufacturers as well as simply make a modest improvement via springs alone. Obviously, this aproach allows a better handle on the cost of your suspension upgrade, but also some control over the fine tuning. Say, replacing the dampers with a set of adjustable Koni's and the springs with whatever brand you prefer to go with them. Coil-overs, however, are sold as a single unit (except the rears, just a moment on those..) The spring and damper are integrated together, which allows for some interesting benefits. The spring is held in place on the damper body by two collars, one atop and the other below. This allows ride hight to be adjusted by moving the spring further down the damper body. This in turn shortens the stroke of the damper by the same amount- not altogether a good thing. Some companies alleviate this by placing the damper on a threaded collar of its own, and it can by lowered on the mount without affecting stroke length. Either design would be imposible with a seperate spring and damper. Another benefit is gaining expert tuning of both damping rates and spring rates to work with each other for the best compromise in ride vs performance. In this area there is some judgment to be excercised from brand to brand. Some companies do this very well and would save you the hassle of trying to tune your own limited supply of dampers and springs, others ...won't. Do some research and use your best judgement. Coil-overs, because they are one unit, are often lighter than using a seperate spring and damper, saving on unsprun weight and improving response. They also usually take up less space. For the Z this is not a concern, but for vehicles with struts this can be. Finally, the rear of the Z utilizes, with most coil-overs, a seperate spring still because of the rear suspension design. The spring usually has a threaded collar to sit on to allow ride hight adjustment, while the damper sits in its own space outboard of the spring. Finally, either set-up can utilize adjustable dampers to fine tune your handling, although monotube coil-overs generally offer more selectability bewteen rates. High end dampers on coil-overs will allow seperate rebound and bounce adjustment to further fine tune your handling. Between the two options, it comes down to how much control and performance are you willing to gain for the money? Seperate springs and dampers can get you much better handling than stock, but fall short of the tunability and ultimate performance of a good set of coil-overs. Will OK Now I know I am going with the S-tune suspension. I am up grading the front camber arms, rear camber arms and rear toe arms (they come all together).. oh and get a set of sways... Now the S-tune suspension you said is a spring/shock combination. The equipment in this package cover both the front and back?? or just the front. Just by the picture it looks like a shock/spring combo and Im not really sure what the other item is next to the seperate spring.. OK im an idiot.. :icon32: LOL.. Are there any other components that you can do to upgrade the suspension "Along" with these I just stated... Thanks for all of your help... |
Originally Posted by ncparamedic
Awsome post! But honestly..im still as confused as a goat on astro turf. :icon33:
OK Now I know I am going with the S-tune suspension. I am up grading the front camber arms, rear camber arms and rear toe arms (they come all together).. oh and get a set of sways... Now the S-tune suspension you said is a spring/shock combination. The equipment in this package cover both the front and back?? or just the front. Just by the picture it looks like a shock/spring combo and Im not really sure what the other item is next to the seperate spring.. OK im an idiot.. :icon32: LOL.. Are there any other components that you can do to upgrade the suspension "Along" with these I just stated... Thanks for all of your help... You are correct, the S-tune is a seperate damper and spring and not a coil-over. The package does cover both the front and rear sets. I am not sure what the other thing is you are referring to, could you post the picture? I looked at Performance Nissan's site and found thier picture of the NISMO suspension. If that is the same as you are referring to, the other item is the rear damper. The rear spring will not sit on the rear damper on the 350Z, it sits outboard of the spring on the lower control arm. The fronts are pictured with the spring already on the damper, similiar to a strut. The only thing you didn't mention that I would recommend is anti-roll bars. There is a sticky on which bars people recommend elsewhere in this forum if you haven't checked it out. You might want to search and see if other people with the S-tune recommend camber adjustments. They might not be neccesary. I don't have the S-tune, so I can't tell you if front and rear camber arms are needed, but they can't hurt. Will |
Where to start from for a smoother ride?
shock absorbers? coilovers? springs? sways? tires? quieter? thanks |
Keeping your vehicle stock or "OEM" if you desire smoothness. Performance has its price. From my experience coil-overs, generally speaking, are very noisy. Roads here in Nor Cal are some of the worst in the country. The word smoothness is no where near my vehicle. The other nite I took a woman out. Embarassed beyond recognition, I lost all eye contact with her when she questioned the bumpiness of my ride and the noise. At one point she said, "That, Richard, does not sound right at all." However handling performance is another thing. I whip around corners, take off like a rocket and the looks are super. I cannot tell you the compliments I get on the looks of my vehicle.
My next mod, you ask? Taking out the passenger :p seat...thnks for reading all this, rich, san jose, ca |
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