Smoking Brakes Won't Even Activate ABS
 

I just suffered through an AutoX day with brakes that would not even grab enough to lock the wheels up once they were hot. This particular track setup was more high-speed than I'm used to with very few cones to slow the drivers down. Two laps of an approximate square with only one corner and the stop box requiring prolonged, extreme braking. I blew through the stop box by many, many feet twice even though I have enough experience to know how to get the car stopped in time.
Front pads smoking a fair bit (but not too crazy) and no matter what I did, I could not get enough stopping power to activate the ABS. I am convinced that the ABS is functioning correctly, so let's explore other ideas aside from that, for now. (I could get the ABS to come on in the first couple of easier braking areas.)
I have R1 Concepts Premium Rotors and they are slotted and cross drilled, paired with their R1 Concepts ceramic pads. I followed their bed-in procedure perfectly last fall when I installed them along with new fluid.
I have some theories, but I'd rather hear your thoughts before I taint them with mine.

ABS is fine , your pads probably suck

Those are probably street pads. Put better pads on the car and see how it is.

if your wheels dont 'lock up' the abs wont even activate. look like its time for some new, better pads.

I know about the locking up, that's why I know the ABS is fine.
*EDIT: Just to explain the title further... What I mean is that I could not get enough clamping force to even lock the wheels up. I could tell that because the ABS would not come on.

As for the pads, do you think that it's that they are cheap, ceramic, or street that is causing this?
I can appreciate that they aren't competition pads, but this particular event was nothing compared to the AutoX that I am more used to. There just wasn't much braking involved - it was a much more high speed event than I have seen previously so I wouldn't have thought that it demanded that much from the braking system. In a 1min-50sec event, there was really only two really significant (reducing speed by 60+mph) braking events. The rest was not extreme. :dunno:

well if you dont wanna change your pads change our brake fluid. use high temp , bleed it properly and try it again. but i would think its your pads since its only auto cross.(short runs)

Fluid is fine if the pedal didn't get spongy, but if you smokes your pads a nice 3 to 4 pump bleed should be done. Just upgrade to a set of EBC green pads for the next autocross , they can also be driven on the street.

Thanks a lot for the advice so far! :thumbup:
Is there a chance that the surface of the rotors became contaminated with something? I don't spray WD-40 on them, but surely they get car wash soap on them from time to time. I wouldn't think that would cause a problem, but I'm just exploring options. If there was contamination, I would expect the surface to be somewhat rainbowed or show some sign of hot spots and I'm not seeing that, so I think that rules that out. Thoughts?
I would lean toward some Hawk pads if they have something that is street-able and can also tolerate AutoX, but I haven't started searching, yet.

Hawk HP+ would be the pads you want, EBC red would probably be a better choice.

Stoptech 309 are also good street/autox pads. The few times I tried AUTOX was on stock pads and it was fine.

I might either try the HP+ or the HPS. I don't want overkill and something that isn't reliable on the street, but I also don't want to crash through the stop box like a 'tard ever again... I appreciate the votes for EBC, but I've got 3 people that I know who swear that they are by far the worst pads they have ever owned, so it's hard to go against that.

I never had any problems with my stock set-up either, that's why I am surprised that this "upgrade" seems to be letting me down so hard.

HP+ has rear non brembo pads but not front. Idk if you have brembo or not though

soap wouldnt contaminate it. and wd40 would just burn off.

Oh. I am NON-Brembo, so perhaps they are out... This whole humiliation has also made me want to get a big brake kit, but I'll leave that debate out for now.

get better tires before you get a BBK.

BBK will do the same thing without proper pads. I've autocrossed and tracked on both EBC yellow and red , great pads for autocross. Yellow was good on the track.

Could we say that those pads op used are worse than stock?

+1 to changing pads and fluids and give it a go before dumpin more money.

Another vote for Stoptech 309 pads. I have nothing but good things to say about them after driving over 10,000 street miles and 5 tracks days with them. You can't beat the price either.

If it is the pads that are to blame in this case (sounds like it is) then absolutely these pads are far worse than stock. I did a few HPDE's last year on stock pads with <30% with zero problems. Those events had more extreme braking in them, as well.

Their site kind of sucks, but part# HB268N.665 kind if seems like it's HP+ fronts for non-Brembos. :dunno: