Originally Posted by halfass872 (Post 7876594)

2) Is this a simple plug and play? I checked out the AEM kit which has an adjustable start and stop point based on boost. Will i need to do a "tune" to make this safe? My computer is stock, and i have the Stillen piggyback computer so i don't think it will be cost effective if i need to try to retune either.

Originally Posted by halfass872 (Post 7876594)

1) From what i've read so far, it seems the injector needs to be placed before the TB.

Originally Posted by halfass872 (Post 7876594)

2) Is this a simple plug and play? I checked out the AEM kit which has an adjustable start and stop point based on boost. Will i need to do a "tune" to make this safe? My computer is stock, and i have the Stillen piggyback computer so i don't think it will be cost effective if i need to try to retune either.

Originally Posted by ttg35fort (Post 7876671)

You should re-tune if you use meth or a meth/water mix. If you don't want to re-tune, you can get by with injecting straight water, but then what's the point? Injecting water will stave off detonation, but if you are properly tuned now, detonation should not be an issue... Using injection will allow you to adjust your tune so that you can advance the timing and/or use more boost (in which case you need to change a pulley wheel). If you are not doing either of these, imo it's not worth the expense and effort.

Originally Posted by Resmarted (Post 7876659)

Meth isn't going to hurt your car, essentially you can start spraying from 2k rpm if you want, but this is pretty wasteful. I doubt you will need a tune, as this is similar to putting (correct me if im wrong) c16 in your car (50/50 meth water), and will only reduce the probability of detonation. You might actually pick up power if the stock ecu decides that the lower air intake temp and increased octane level is good to run more timing.
So imo you wont need a tune to be "safe" but you will likely need a tune to get all the benefits meth has to offer.

Originally Posted by Resmarted (Post 7876685)

Doesn't the stock ecu have a few different timing maps that adjust via conditions? or am i mistaken?

Originally Posted by Resmarted (Post 7876659)

.....You might actually pick up power if the stock ecu decides that the lower air intake temp and increased octane level is good to run more timing.

Originally Posted by ttg35fort (Post 7876671)

... If you want to inject pre-blower, you can do that as well, but still no need to be before the throttle body with a good injection kit.

Originally Posted by ttg35fort (Post 7876691)

With respect to injecting straight water, you are correct. With respect to injecting a 50/50 mix, this is not correct. Methanol is a fuel. If you add methanol without adjusting the tune, your AFR will drop. The amount of the AFR drop will depend on the amount of meth being injected. Too low of an AFR is counter productive because it starts to decrease hp. If your AFR drops to around 8 or below, then you start to wash the cylinders, and that is not good.

Originally Posted by ttg35fort (Post 7876691)

With respect to injecting straight water, that's fine so long as you don't over do it. With respect to injecting a 50/50 mix or straight meth, this is not correct. Methanol is a fuel. If you add methanol without adjusting the tune, your AFR will drop. The amount of the AFR drop will depend on the amount of meth being injected. Too low of an AFR is counter productive because it starts to decrease hp. If your AFR drops to around 8 or below, then you start to wash the cylinders, and that is not good.

Originally Posted by halfass872 (Post 7876712)

Woudld you reccomend a 25/75 mix of meth/water then if running on a stock ECU?? I've read of people using washer fluid which is 30/70 ish.

Originally Posted by Resmarted (Post 7876710)

Maybe the better thing to say is:
OP: Can you get a retune and do you have an A/F gauge?

Originally Posted by Resmarted (Post 7876727)

ttg35 has a lot more knowledge than I, but at the end of the day I would stay away from washer fluid. There are some additives that don't burn, and that makes me nervous...
Thats about all i can contribute to this thread :)
My vote is meth/water + used utec + good tune.

Originally Posted by halfass872 (Post 7876712)

Woudld you reccomend a 25/75 mix of meth/water then if running on a stock ECU?? I've read of people using washer fluid which is 30/70 ish.

Originally Posted by ttg35fort (Post 7877009)

There really is no point in going with an injection system unless:

1) You presently have a detonation problem (i.e., knocking); or

2) You are going to re-tune and up the boost and/or advance the timing.

Other than this, I see a lot of money and time spent with no real benefit.

Originally Posted by halfass872 (Post 7877150)

Good deal. Just getting all the facts together. Like i said before, i really just wanna offset the effects of the hotter air in the summer because i can tell a considerable difference in performance. But if my sotck ECU is gonna counteract any benifits i gain with meth without a tune, then you're right, it'll likely be a waste.

Originally Posted by halfass872 (Post 7876594)

So i've grown bored of my Stillen output (as everyone predicted:gotowned:), but not so much to the point that i want to part out, do a build, go TT, etc. I want to keep my set up but maybe "bolt on" a little more power, without too much fuss.

I've been reading up on Methanol injection, and i have a couple questions reguarding it.

1) From what i've read so far, it seems the injector needs to be placed before the TB. If this is true would i loose any cooling benefit because it still has to get compressed by the blower before going into the cylinders? (Vice a normal SC/Turbo setup where the air has already been charged before reaching the TB and introducing the Methenol into the air path)

Actually this provides some extra benefits in the case of a positive displacement blower. By keeping the blower case cool we prevent heat soak very effectively along with reducing charge temps and providing direct detonation controll through increased octane.

2) Is this a simple plug and play? I checked out the AEM kit which has an adjustable start and stop point based on boost. Will i need to do a "tune" to make this safe? My computer is stock, and i have the Stillen piggyback computer so i don't think it will be cost effective if i need to try to retune either.

With a positive displacement blower, injection based on boost is a flawed strategy, because the boost curve is more like a step. So rather than getting a nice progressive injection curve, you get a sudden slug of fluid. MAF based controll or better yet EFI PW controll is more effective, as it allows for a very nice progressive injection curve.

Lets try to keep this informative. I don't need 40 people telling me how i should burn the car and i'm an idiot for buying a Stillen blower. It is what it is, it works for me, and i don't drive aggressive often enough to bother starting all over from scratch again:thumbup:

Originally Posted by ttg35fort (Post 7877180)

Unless you are knocking, your issue is that hot air is less dense than cool air. I'm not sure which stillen kit you have, but I beleive that there is an intercooler available that sits between the SC and the intake runners. If you do not already have that, that would be the first upgrade I would recommend. If you do have that already, focus on getting more air to the heat exchanger.

Originally Posted by ttg35fort (Post 7877009)

There really is no point in going with an injection system unless:

1) You presently have a detonation problem (i.e., knocking); or

2) You are going to re-tune and up the boost and/or advance the timing.

Other than this, I see a lot of money and time spent with no real benefit.

Originally Posted by halfass872 (Post 7877203)

No knocking (that i knwo if). And i have the stage 4 kit, which has the heat exchanger, smallest pully, better piggyback, new fuel pump, and larger 6th injector.

I added a fan to the front of the heat exchanger at the beginning of the summer. But even without the fan, the water in the heat exchanger resivour never got hot to the point that it would burn you. I'm thinking of buying an aftermarket heat exchanger. The one supplied is pretty small, thus not really giving the water much time in it to get cooled by the air flowing through the bumper.