T/A WS6 Vs Z
 

Before I tell my story I will like to say that in " the streets anything can happen", I notice some of the members are experts in street racing.... sorry "magazing racing", saying what car can or can't beat the Z, but not of them have race the cars or own a Z.
well, saying that, my story goes like this... I was in the highway and saw a red WS6 up front, it was a little traffic at the time but clear up just when I rigth behine him and when we have the chance we go for it, he was 1 1/2 car up front and we roll at 50 mph I was in 3rd and by the time I put 4th I was just 1 car behine at the top of 4th I was 1/2 car and S/D at 115. we get side by side but with traffic again and he give me the thumps up.
I'm guessing it was a A4, have some tips but dont know it have any exhaust. I know for some people is gonna be hard to believe this story but for the record I seeing Ls1 A4 doing 13.9 @102 and M6 13.8 @103 but also have seeing doing 13.5 @105.
like I say "in the streets anything can happen".

Re: T/A WS6 Vs Z
 

I believe it you are the best driver in Puerto Rico :) Just kidding.

It is amazing what a weight advantage will give you. Did you do anything to put your car on a diet that weight seems low.

I'm not doubting you, from the looks of it, you know how to drive. One question though, do you know what year it was? I'm just saying this because there are 2nd, 3rd, and 4th generation WS6's ranging from about 185hp-345hp, LT1's, LS1's, TPI's (305 and 350), L78, Y88, Y48, etc etc

Re: Re: T/A WS6 Vs Z
 

No... the only thing is that it have almoust no gas in the tank.
In the nissan site the base model said it W 3,188.

http://www.nissanusa.com/vehicles/Mo...s/0,9439,23261||,00.html

It was a 00+ LS1 ( my last car was a 97 SS M6 I love the F body's)

Sounds like a pretty good race.

I am a bit surprised though, the lowest trap I have seen from an 00+ LS1 was 103, and it was an automatic convertable. But your Z laid down some good power, and there are plenty of other things that factor in, so good kill.

nice post, good kill, now go over and tell your same story to ls1.com, j/k, I bet some of the fbody spies will post it over there.

Puerto Rico must be home to some of the shittiest drivers in the World, second only to Hong Kong. Once an LS1 hits 80, it just walks like a mother f**ker.

I don't know if I totally agree. Our car has a MAJOR gearing advantage on the highway vs, an A4 LS1. I ran with a C5 Vette coupe A4 from 70-120 and he only put a carlengh on me...and I'll probably get flamed to hell for that claim. :rolleyes:

Now a 6M LS1 on the highway would probably beat us pretty bad......

Hmm... Ok, I'm gonna play nice this time. maybe you have to come here for some vacation or something and I be glad to show you around. maybe show you how we drive in here :cool:

You are totally right. My A4 has 3.23's and it is an LT1. The LS1's come with 2.73 in the auto's. Good kill none the less, a T/A is a T/A, period.

Bo

OFF TOPIC! droidekaus, that is a really nice website you have. Did you do that yourself? If so, you are the man when it comes to that sort of stuff. I dont work well with computers so that sort of thing always impresses me. Later

Bo

Not all of them. The 3.23 rear was an option, and I believe it was standard on the SS and WS6.

Webcarconnection, nice kill.

I stand corrected.:D

Bo

Well...you DEFINITLY have a weight advantage. And PLEASE don't take this as me calling BS or anything, but I would really like to see a Z run a LS1.
The LS1 is wicked fast once you get it up and running.

Sounds like a fun run (hey, look at me rhyme...lol) :icon8:

Nice run! :D

Robert
2000 NBM Trans Am WS6
iCAGS, MTI Clear Lid
Hotchkis RLCA's
Tokico Blues
Eibach Sport Line's

hey wats wrong with hong kong?
:p

I guess its possible to hang with a A4 LS1 if he is in the dead spot where it won't downshift. In the powerband he should pull you very good.
This is just based on my experiences with A4s as my car is a M6...with just a lid i trapped 110.1 mph in the 1/4 so i'm sure a race from a roll with a M6 would be different.:)

Nice job :D You have a very fast car there.

sounds like a good run. Ive driven the new 350's and they are pretty quick cars, and bein the ex owner of a 300z i love the z's, they are an all around amazing japanese sports car. It does sound like the car u ran was an a4 or it probably woulda been a lil different of an outcome, but none the less good run.

Sorry, I should have paid attention to your sig. That's a pretty sick Z you have there to be putting down that kind of RWHP with just an intake. I think you got a ringer!

Thanks! Yes, that's all mine. I used to be pretty hardcore into site design before I went into management. ;)

I'm sure he downshift (or the A4) because I saw the black smoke in the tips just when we step on it. I know the M6 are quicker but I'm gonna try anyway when I get the chace. :)

That OK... The car Stock (K&N) put 246 HP 233TQ. With the Pre- Silencer remove went to 249 HP and 235.5 TQ. and w the injen it was 259 HP and 245 TQ in 5th gear. w the Grounding Kit put me in the 262 HP & 248 TQ but the car have 7,500 miles when test it. I wonder about that theory that the ECU break after 6000 miles. :rolleyes:

with a converter there is no dead spot

Inquiring minds want to know...
 

I am convinced that one of us has a bad dyno read! I have a Touring 5AT. I dyno'd an awful :( 218 HP and 216 Tq. I run 1/4 drags and my best at 1800 ft. elevation was an uncorrected 14.102 ET @ 99.461mph uncorrected. When I apply the NHRA formula to correct for the altitude it comes out to 13.814 et and 101.579mph. Remember, this is a Touring with automatic! Being that you are in NJ, is your track at/near sea level? Still, you dyno'd 44 more hp and 32 ft. lbs. more torque than I did and you use the more efficient 6MT and yet we are within a tenth of a second with our ET's :confused: I have to agree w/my dyno figures because they line up w/approx. 24% driveline loss that most feel is accurate for the auto.
If others can attest to a full 10hp gain from the Injen, as you seem to get, I am ordering one tomorrow, but methinks you are in the vast minority on that figure. What kind of dyno was it?
Your post is the first one (that I have seen) to say that the grounding kit gave you 3 hp. Interesting....
What 60' time are running? How do you rate your track? Are there other 350's running and how are they doing? My point, unless you are at altitude, you should be doing quite a bit better than my bone stock auto touring with your more efficient clutch and 44hp more. Regards, Jim

Track altitude
 

Whoops, I just noticed that you are in PR. not NJ. I am assuming that you are at or near sea level when you run. I stand by my original thesis, that you should be faster, given your circumstances and HP & TQ readings. Regards, Jim

Well, when hewas stock, he only ad 28 more hp on you. He also has a stick, and a significant amount of miles. Your times are very impressive for the numbers you are laying down. Did you dyno on a mustang dyno?

Dyno type
 

I have 14,600+ miles presently. I had about 11k when I dyno'd on a dynojet. Regards, Jim

Every dyno is going to be different, even the same brand in two different places.

Re: Track altitude
 

Yes I'm in sea level, My 60' was around 2.1.... yes I will go again and make better time!
about the Grounding kit, I test it when I have more than 7,000 miles, theres a theory about the ECU breaking after 6,000, the avg. HP for the Grounding kit is 2 HP. For the Injen I guess I was lucky I'm seeing 7-8 HP Avg. :cool:

The race was from 50 mph. Either gear option would have shifted down to 2nd (2.73 or 3.23) for the A4. At that speed is where my car is deadly from a roll. I raced a 350 the other day from just those speeds 3 times and every time was the same out come (last time I gave him the jump). I pulled on him and kept him behind me several cars slowly walking him more up to 130.

And for the comment "anything can happen in a street race"...well in this situation all that was needed was 2 things.

1. the person you raced had to be participating.
2. the person you raced just had to floor the pedal and steer straight...the car would have downshifted to 2nd and took off.

I think the 350 is a sharp looking car...I hope to have one someday soon sitting next to my present car but please don't try to compare highway racing with the two.

Hmm... firts my Z is not stock, second I know that everybody dont have the same expirience in the street, thats why I said "anything can happen in a street race" If you have different expirience w a Z thats your case, but is not a basic fact to say that can not compare highway racing with the two.
this is only one of many races that I have w cars that is "suppoust to be faster that the Z"(Magazine) but they are not.
I know this is only words, but soon there will be videos to prove it.
Peace! :cool:

And again about "anything can happen on the street", in this case you raced an A4. There really is no skill required on the part of the WS6 driver. All they had to do was floor it and go. You were at the LS1 A4's sweetest spot to race.

I noticed in your sig that you have track times. Please post your numbers for the 1/4 (i.e. 330', 1/8, 1000') and include mph too. I'd love to compare your 330' and on with mine from this past weekend. It'll show how strong your car is after you've gotten traction compared to an LS1 A4 after it has gotten traction. I'll post mine as soon as I see yours.

one thing that I mean for "anything can happen on the street" is that not all the A4 LS1 (or any car) are the same, it can be a little difference in performance between them. (to many factors)
don't worry I will post the #s a soon I find the papers. I don't think that proof that the A4 LS1 is gonna beat the Z every time they race or viceversa.
I notice that you have a Firehawk, it have little more HP that the WS6... rigth!

Nope.

Same engine and tranny in all of them. The Ram-Air on all the F-body models doesn't work as well as many think.


Do you have a graph of your dyno? I'd like to see that too and compare it with mine and see how level the graph for TQ and HP is when comparing both. You may dyno 264 but your overall HP and TQ average is going to be much lower. I have to check when I get home for the exact number but my 3000 RPM HP was around 275 at the wheels compared to your 264 Peak. I'll test it tonight and see what RPM my car shifts down to at 50 mph and then compare it to my dyno and tell you the HP and TQ numbers for that RPM. As for the difference in cars, i'll give you 15 HP difference for a car with less HP. That is about right for the HP difference between the 98-00 years and 01-02. You find out tonight where your car would be when you downshift to the gear you were in when you raced at 50 mph and then compare it to your graph. Post here later and let me know the numbers.

Hmm... I think you are a little technical for this matter. they are few factors that you have to consider before you compare anything. 1. My Z W 3,186 yours arond 3500 2. My 6M yours A4
That two factors for starts are very important when you compare the performance.
Ok... lets say your F body have more HP in the RPM peak that the car is when you go at 50 mph, but at the time the car shift to another gear mine is already in the other gear and w the peak HP that the cars need, and if you mixed with the Weigth Vs Hp formula you get one of the factors to considered. for my expirience both car can compare in the street, but you dont have to agree with me.

Hes not referring to peak HP. The 275 hp quote he is giving is what hes doing at 3000 rpm. The LS1 makes peak power in the mid 5000 range. I wouldnt be surprised if his Hawk is putting down 320 or so at the wheels. Hes asking you for a dyno chart so he can compare power under the curve for both your cars. Hes just saying the LS1 is going to make more power all over the powerband as compared to the 350Z do that no matter where its at in the rev range it will have an advantage.

I have a question, did he race with you? Because its a complete waiste of time to compare two cars that are not the main subject of the thread. If you are trying to compare your car with his car, then that is a complete different subject. If you are trying to say that all cars are the same then you are wrong.
I owned a '95 Formula 6M, it had'1.6 Crane Gold RR's, no cat, custom 3" pipes, SLP muffler etc. I had compucar nitrous system with 225hp jets. I had to custom made a ceramic disk for my clutch because it had a lot of power. It dynoed 297 rwhp and 349 rwtq n/a with the juice it made 490rwhp and 560 lbs.tq So I know what the f-body is capable of and what it lacks.

With n/a I could beat C5's all day long and we are talking about an engine that had more hp and tq and less weight! Why? Too many factors could affect the performance of both cars. Even the ECU can be a factor, if the owner of the f-body or C5 does not race his car, the ECU will be less agressive than other that does.
I have seen two T/A's Stock A4 with similar mileage and had 2 or even 3 mph difference in trap speeds in 1/4 mile runs.

Maybe your car has more Hp in the power band than the Z... so? it is not the car that the Z raced.
I have a Z myself and I have mannaged to beat an M5. Why? maybe he was a very poor driver. Though sh**, too bad, I won he lost. The most important part in any sportscar is the part behind the wheel... you know...THE DRIVER.
The A4 in the LS1 is the same that has been around for a long time. The gears are 3.06, 1.63, 1.00, .75. with a 3.23 diff. When the LS1 is in one gear, the Z has shifted two gears. When the LS1 shifts to the next gear it goes a little off its power band, in contrast with the Z that has 6 gears that are very close in their ratio, so they stay in the power band, so the advantage goes to the Z. Then we go to the weight. The Z is at least 350lbs lighter than the LS1. Advantage goes again to the Z.

So can a Z beat your average LS1, it will depend on too many factors. Will the LS1 always beat the Z? It will depend.
This time seems the Z had the advantage.

What does the LS1 has in advantage? well almost everything!
Almost any mod you do to the car can increase 10-20 hp to the wheels, so almost any LS1 with simple mods with a good driver could beat with ease the average Z, not for too long, because there are too many aftermarket products in development that WILL increase the hp to the Z and make it an even faster car, a more challenging performer for those modified f-body's out there.

sukkoi19, thank you. You said it perfect. Now I was wrong on the actual numbers being put down for my car. I just got back from the road and my car is at 3800 RPMS when it shifts into 2nd @ 50 mph. I looked at the graph and it shows my corrected numbers were 230 HP and 318 TQ. You are very close to my peak numbers too, the are 315.6 HP and 327.4 TQ corrected. Uncorrected for that day was 328 HP and 340 TQ (which these numbers are useless because you may dyno on a hotter or colder day than I). So lets just use corrected numbers.

Now just 1000 RPM's higher (4800) I am putting down 298 HP and 323 TQ.

Dyno Graph

We'll use that as an example to figure out HP with RPM.

Used this site to get gear ratio

I used the 245/45/18 tire ratio for the rear. Now off my calculations you should have downshifted to 3rd to hit 50 mph for a race (2nd would put you too high making you shift just about right away). At that speed in 3rd you'd be at about 3600 RPMS. Going off that graph that Z would be putting down 140 HP and 220 TQ (I'll add 20 hp to your numbers for your other mods, remember you already have that mod in the graph) so your numbers will be about 160 Hp and 240 Tq. If you add the 20 HP for your other mods and the 10 for the injen it gives you your quoted 262 HP.

At this piont I've got 90 HP and 78 TQ on you. Now you said you knew he downshifted because you saw black smoke come from his exhaust plus you were 1 1/2 cars behind when you went. Now you are trying to say that you pulled from a 1 1/2 car length deficit (sp?) being down about 90 HP and 78 TQ @ 3800 RPM's for me and came back to close the gap by 115?

You mentioned something about gearing earlier..well here is my gearing

1st 3.059
2nd 1.625
3rd 1.000
4th 0.696

Here is your gearing

1st -3.794
2nd -2.324
3rd -1.624
4th-1.271
5th -1.000
6th -0.794

You will notice that your 3rd gear ratio is nearly identical to my 2nd. Again, are you trying to say that with just 300 lbs less, the same gear ratio starting out, and 90 HP and 78 TQ to start you were able to pull back that 1 1/2 car length? I don't think so.

You can say that I am being too technical but they iz the facts. Numbers don't lie. Now what may have happened is you were playing with him earlier in traffic, you got caught up and tried playing catch up. He saw you coming hard so he floored it right when you were 1 1/2 cars back, his reaction time and the time of the car down shifting allows you to gain more. He probably let off because of the speeds you two were going.

I'll just quote this last section but I am referring to just about all of your post. First, had he raced a M6 I could believe this story a bit more and here is why. With an M6 the person behind the wheel chooses the gear, the A4..well the computer. The driver of an M6 could be in 6th gear when driving and downshift only to 4th. Because of this flaw in driving the 350 could easily gain the ground and then when the M6 got back into the power range would start to pull again.

Now for the A4, again the computer picks the gear. I sat there several times trying to see what gear my car would pick while driving 50 mph and I floored it. I started in O/D each time (4th) and every single time I floored the car, it went to 2nd. I did this atleast a dozen times on 3 different occasions this afternoon.

Just that alone shows if the guy he raced actually took off at the same time would put him into 2nd. There is no driver error here. It is all car. Granted that persons car might night have the same exact HP as mine but if you have been around the LS1 community you will know that it is pretty damn close. Read my long arse :D :D post above for more details.

Excuse me I didn't know you where the driver and it was your car.
Give me a break! Are you for real?
How can you explain what happened in a place that you where not to be found?
Please!!!

First, learn that you DON'T have to quote the entire message. 2nd, step back away from defending your car for just a second and try to look rationally at my points. You will see that they are very valid. I am sure many of your compadre's will agree that this story does not make sense but don't feel like wasting their time posting.

I drive an LS1 everyday. I know it's potential. I have recently ran a 350Z several times (read my posts earlier). Just from the beating that person took I know that this story isn't all true. The author is leaving something out.
I don't have to have been there to know what happened...I have my experience, many other LS1'ers and even people on this same board who in the past have agreed to stories like this that they are bogus.

Tom

I really doubt it down shifted and I'm sure it could have been an a4 with 2.73 gears (they suck) I know that when my tranny kicks down at 50 it goes down on the rpms to around 2500-2900 rpms but 65 and up it really just flys

Isn't it nice to get a draft and keep up with faster cars?

Nope..WS6's come with the performance axle of 3.23's That is part of the WS6 package with an auto.

How about you all stop arguing about a pointless thread...He was there, now its your choice if you believe him or not...


Now, if anybody in atlanta wants to race a trans am, plase let me know, we'll race, tape it and post the results, simple as that...

Oh yeah i can drive...;)

I am in Atlanta for the week. I am fixing my intake manifold leak but when I get it back together, you better hope I dont run across you on the street. Im gonna tear you up man. If I were you and we decide to run our cars, I wouldnt even show.:D :p ;) Just kidding. Later man, let me know if you wanna run, I havent had a good beating in a while.

Re: T/A WS6 Vs Z
 

Yes anything can happen on the streets.........nice kill.

I do agree that, within reason, the driver does make a BIG difference......but I will say that LS1s doing 13.9 is more the exception than the rule. ;)

SOLD: 11/02
'99 pewter Z28 M6 hardtop
lid, K&N, Loudmouth, Konis
13.2 @ 108.0 / 2.18 - 60'
(no weight reductions on F1s)

CURRENT
'00 pewter TA WS6 M6
lid, K&N, Loudmouth, Konis (rear)
13.0 @ 108.8 / 2.09 - 60'
(no weight reductions on F1s)

Lol, i cant beat on my buddy neighbor, but maybe we can beat on our other buddy that thinks he is fast?:rolleyes: :D