Powered by MAX Z33 Pro Series coils - my impressions
07-16-2011, 01:11 PM
#1
Powered by MAX Z33 Pro Series coils - my impressions
Hey everyone, some of you might have seen all my drama with the scammed v8 swap in my car but about 1 1/2 months ago I finished putting a VQ back in the car myself and about 2 weeks ago I got these babies in. I only got to drive on them for about 4 days due to having to leave to Virginia for business until December, but either way when I was searching around I saw NO information on how they rode or anything, so I thought I'd give you guys my first impressions of them and hopefully I'll be able to fly back to Texas and drive my car up here so I can get you guys some quality/reliability impressions as well as some real performance impressions (VIR.... OMNOMNOMNOM). Anyway, onto the coils.
From MAX's website:
First Impressions..
As you can see from the pic above, the appearance of these things is insanity. An orgy of shiny things. Like most of us here, I like shiny things. These particular shiny things will create a $1500 black hole in your wallet/bank account, and so I am constantly trying to make sure that they are worth that $1500. When they arrived it wasn't in an amusingly designed box like their gen 2 coilovers, but was just a regular box with 4 other boxes inside which each contained a top notch bubble wrapped coilover. So, +1 on good packaging. Only negative was that after spending $1500 on these things, I didn't get a single PBM sticker.
-83752.724 there.
The second you see these things it's pretty insane, I'll let this picture explain why:
So far, so good.
Installationizing
The installation was very straightforward and easy, had it knocked out in no time. Came with all of the hardware except for a stud/nut or bolt to hold the brake line to it's mount, but you can easily just zip tie that or find a bolt to use pretty easily. That's just me nitpicking though, everything else was easy as can be.
(have a picture of them on the car without the wheel on but can't find it at the moment)
Because my camber arms and such were taken by the guy that's been letting me use his shop to get the Z up and running for the past 6 months and just taken off my bill, I decided I was going to keep the coils at factory settings (doesn't look like they can even go much much higher than what they ship them out at, didn't check) so I wouldn't mess up anything too badly. Even so, they go pretty damn low at the height they shipped them out at.
Car on the lift before install:
Car on the lift After the install:
During the install I noticed these things are SUPER light and extremely well made. Just holding them and looking at them you can tell they were made without compromise, I cannot WAIT till I get back to the car with my suspension arms and everything and take it to a track.
After the install and we set it down on the ground, everyone's jaw dropped. These things are damn low at factory settings, it's absolutely mental. My friend (Dex-z33 on here I think) has D2 coils (I think), and I dunno what settings he's on but these on the factory settings are within millimeters of being as low as his are. I stupidly didn't get any good pictures other than this coming one of the rear because I got so busy with preparing to head out to Virginia after we got them installed, but here are some from my phone and friends phones.
Note: An obvious point, but I figured I'd make it anyway. ROLL YOUR GODDAMN FENDERS! I never worried about it with the springs I had (Hotchkis, very subtle drop and stiffer than stock) and couldn't find anyone in town that would do it for me before I had to leave for VA so I never got mine done.. Rubs a little on hard cornering but that's all, I just took my chances considering I had to leave 4 days later and my rears are already going so I figured what the hell, haha.
Yes, I know I need spacers. ^_^ It's pretty cool, when you look at the car straight from the side and look at the wheel you can see the copper shining behind, looks uber shiny. Like I said before, I like shiny. +1. And on another side note, these coils can go a LOT lower than what I have them set to. By looking at them and my conversations with PBM (Probably the best customer service of any company I've ever spoken to, just so you know), they can go all the way down to the frame. Insanity.
Dhey see me roooolliinnnnn
Now onto the drive. At first I drove the car on full soft in the front and rear, and it is so incredibly comfortable it's not even funny. After driving a 240 with the Gen 2's, I was a bit hesitant to buy these because I not only drift the car but I daily it as well. But after telling myself I don't care I want the most performance I can get and I can deal with the discomfort, I got these and good LORD am I happy that I did. Full soft they don't even feel like coilovers they're so comfy. Plus, even on the full soft when I did some tight corners to just get a feel for them I could take the corners much faster than I usually was able to and the coils didn't even feel like they were trying.
Driving hard
After fiddling with the settings a little bit and making it a little bit harder, it's (obviously) noticeably a stiffer ride, but still not that bad and still rather comfortable. Plus, dear lord does it handle like a dream. To quote my friend after he drove the car over to my house after getting wood to get it into my driveway (I couldn't get to Home Depot before I left for VA, haha): "Your suspension feels like sex." So to clarify, really good marks on comfort and from what I can tell from a "performance road" you might call it, it feels amazing going through corners.
After a few clutch kicks and transitions I can safely say these were exactly what I need to step up to the next level of competition. You can feel exactly where the rear is and control it so easy it's mind boggling. It's so predictable that in literally no time I was getting angle I never could get before just because of the limits of the springs I was on before along with how grippy my rear tires are. I can already tell these coilovers are going to be magical when I get to my next event.
Note: Due to the rear strut bar design on the Z, the only way I could find to adjust the rear coilovers was to take the wheel off and drop the coils. I might just have been having a super noob moment, but I couldn't find any other way because the top of the coils are enclosed in the strut bar. My fix for this was I drilled the hole in the strut that was right above the top of the coil out so that I could get a socket on an extension onto them. If you've installed coilovers on a Z before you probably are already aware of this, but if you are new to Z suspension like I am just a heads up. If theres a better way, please let me know.
Conclusion
Now like I said, these are still my very first impressions. So far though, I can safely say these things are DEFINITELY worth the $1500 I payed for them and just by driving on them a couple days I can already tell that this is going to be my favorite car to drift compared to all of the cars I've drifted and driven before. I'll continue updating as I drive the car more, unfortunately that might be a while though since I'm stuck in Virginia until December. However I'm going to try and fly back to Texas and drive the car back up here so that if I get any spare time I can try and get it out to VIR and do a proper test of these. Until then I hope I gave you guys a decent mini-first-impression-review and if you have any other questions feel free to ask them and I'll try and answer them to the best of my ability.
From MAX's website:
Unique Features:
~ TRUE coil-over-damper design gives way more adjustability and tuning to the rear suspension
~ 12/8 KG SWIFT Springs with mirror gold finish (A Parts Shop MAX exclusive)
~ CNC aluminum components double coated with pure copper, sealed with clear urethane
~ Pillowball uppers front and rear (teflon lined maintenance free)
~ Fine damper threads to resist loosening
~ Rebound Infinitely adjustable with 12 click tactile feedback ****.
~ Damping has more adjustability all on the soft end of the range to compliment the swift springs and big traction on high power cars.
~ Super low ride height ability
~ Lifetime warranty against manufacturer defects with 4 year free replacement in case of moving parts failure
~ TRUE coil-over-damper design gives way more adjustability and tuning to the rear suspension
~ 12/8 KG SWIFT Springs with mirror gold finish (A Parts Shop MAX exclusive)
~ CNC aluminum components double coated with pure copper, sealed with clear urethane
~ Pillowball uppers front and rear (teflon lined maintenance free)
~ Fine damper threads to resist loosening
~ Rebound Infinitely adjustable with 12 click tactile feedback ****.
~ Damping has more adjustability all on the soft end of the range to compliment the swift springs and big traction on high power cars.
~ Super low ride height ability
~ Lifetime warranty against manufacturer defects with 4 year free replacement in case of moving parts failure
As you can see from the pic above, the appearance of these things is insanity. An orgy of shiny things. Like most of us here, I like shiny things. These particular shiny things will create a $1500 black hole in your wallet/bank account, and so I am constantly trying to make sure that they are worth that $1500. When they arrived it wasn't in an amusingly designed box like their gen 2 coilovers, but was just a regular box with 4 other boxes inside which each contained a top notch bubble wrapped coilover. So, +1 on good packaging. Only negative was that after spending $1500 on these things, I didn't get a single PBM sticker.
-83752.724 there.The second you see these things it's pretty insane, I'll let this picture explain why:
So far, so good.
Installationizing
The installation was very straightforward and easy, had it knocked out in no time. Came with all of the hardware except for a stud/nut or bolt to hold the brake line to it's mount, but you can easily just zip tie that or find a bolt to use pretty easily. That's just me nitpicking though, everything else was easy as can be.
(have a picture of them on the car without the wheel on but can't find it at the moment)
Because my camber arms and such were taken by the guy that's been letting me use his shop to get the Z up and running for the past 6 months and just taken off my bill, I decided I was going to keep the coils at factory settings (doesn't look like they can even go much much higher than what they ship them out at, didn't check) so I wouldn't mess up anything too badly. Even so, they go pretty damn low at the height they shipped them out at.
Car on the lift before install:
Car on the lift After the install:
During the install I noticed these things are SUPER light and extremely well made. Just holding them and looking at them you can tell they were made without compromise, I cannot WAIT till I get back to the car with my suspension arms and everything and take it to a track.
After the install and we set it down on the ground, everyone's jaw dropped. These things are damn low at factory settings, it's absolutely mental. My friend (Dex-z33 on here I think) has D2 coils (I think), and I dunno what settings he's on but these on the factory settings are within millimeters of being as low as his are. I stupidly didn't get any good pictures other than this coming one of the rear because I got so busy with preparing to head out to Virginia after we got them installed, but here are some from my phone and friends phones.
Note: An obvious point, but I figured I'd make it anyway. ROLL YOUR GODDAMN FENDERS! I never worried about it with the springs I had (Hotchkis, very subtle drop and stiffer than stock) and couldn't find anyone in town that would do it for me before I had to leave for VA so I never got mine done.. Rubs a little on hard cornering but that's all, I just took my chances considering I had to leave 4 days later and my rears are already going so I figured what the hell, haha.
Yes, I know I need spacers. ^_^ It's pretty cool, when you look at the car straight from the side and look at the wheel you can see the copper shining behind, looks uber shiny. Like I said before, I like shiny. +1. And on another side note, these coils can go a LOT lower than what I have them set to. By looking at them and my conversations with PBM (Probably the best customer service of any company I've ever spoken to, just so you know), they can go all the way down to the frame. Insanity.
Dhey see me roooolliinnnnn
Now onto the drive. At first I drove the car on full soft in the front and rear, and it is so incredibly comfortable it's not even funny. After driving a 240 with the Gen 2's, I was a bit hesitant to buy these because I not only drift the car but I daily it as well. But after telling myself I don't care I want the most performance I can get and I can deal with the discomfort, I got these and good LORD am I happy that I did. Full soft they don't even feel like coilovers they're so comfy. Plus, even on the full soft when I did some tight corners to just get a feel for them I could take the corners much faster than I usually was able to and the coils didn't even feel like they were trying.
Driving hard
After fiddling with the settings a little bit and making it a little bit harder, it's (obviously) noticeably a stiffer ride, but still not that bad and still rather comfortable. Plus, dear lord does it handle like a dream. To quote my friend after he drove the car over to my house after getting wood to get it into my driveway (I couldn't get to Home Depot before I left for VA, haha): "Your suspension feels like sex." So to clarify, really good marks on comfort and from what I can tell from a "performance road" you might call it, it feels amazing going through corners.
After a few clutch kicks and transitions I can safely say these were exactly what I need to step up to the next level of competition. You can feel exactly where the rear is and control it so easy it's mind boggling. It's so predictable that in literally no time I was getting angle I never could get before just because of the limits of the springs I was on before along with how grippy my rear tires are. I can already tell these coilovers are going to be magical when I get to my next event.
Note: Due to the rear strut bar design on the Z, the only way I could find to adjust the rear coilovers was to take the wheel off and drop the coils. I might just have been having a super noob moment, but I couldn't find any other way because the top of the coils are enclosed in the strut bar. My fix for this was I drilled the hole in the strut that was right above the top of the coil out so that I could get a socket on an extension onto them. If you've installed coilovers on a Z before you probably are already aware of this, but if you are new to Z suspension like I am just a heads up. If theres a better way, please let me know.
Conclusion
Now like I said, these are still my very first impressions. So far though, I can safely say these things are DEFINITELY worth the $1500 I payed for them and just by driving on them a couple days I can already tell that this is going to be my favorite car to drift compared to all of the cars I've drifted and driven before. I'll continue updating as I drive the car more, unfortunately that might be a while though since I'm stuck in Virginia until December. However I'm going to try and fly back to Texas and drive the car back up here so that if I get any spare time I can try and get it out to VIR and do a proper test of these. Until then I hope I gave you guys a decent mini-first-impression-review and if you have any other questions feel free to ask them and I'll try and answer them to the best of my ability.
07-16-2011, 01:53 PM
#5
That's what I thought too, but these things are on an entirely other level than the Gen 2's. These are also the same coilovers Ryan Kado is using in his FD Z. You have to drive them to see why I'm convinced they're worth the $1500 so far. Who knows, my verdict might change after I put more miles on them and some more track time, but I doubt it.
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07-18-2011, 09:19 AM
#12
Super Moderator
MY350Z.COM
MY350Z.COM
iTrader: (8)
Search ad read about it , the arguably part he mentioned is true. Some people say its equal, some say inferiour, some say better.
IMO its equal, but i don't feel the mounting point is strong enought for the abuse. This is why extra bracing will be added to the back of my car with the roll cage.
IMO its equal, but i don't feel the mounting point is strong enought for the abuse. This is why extra bracing will be added to the back of my car with the roll cage.
07-18-2011, 09:37 AM
#13
Search ad read about it , the arguably part he mentioned is true. Some people say its equal, some say inferiour, some say better.
IMO its equal, but i don't feel the mounting point is strong enought for the abuse. This is why extra bracing will be added to the back of my car with the roll cage.
IMO its equal, but i don't feel the mounting point is strong enought for the abuse. This is why extra bracing will be added to the back of my car with the roll cage.
07-18-2011, 10:28 AM
#14
OEM rear setup > True Coilover rear setup
Its spelled out here:
https://my350z.com/forum/brakes-and-...er-or-not.html
There are also many other threads about it. In essence, a bunch of reasons not limited to but including: spindle location bushing not designed to carry weight of car, linear springs behaving progressive due to ark of damper travel, placing the spring on the shock creates bending loads on the shock and therefore friction and binding during its motion so now you have a coilover that has to overcome its internal friction before it can respond to suspension motion....list of issues goes on, hence true coilover for our platform is inferior
07-18-2011, 10:35 AM
#15
Search ad read about it , the arguably part he mentioned is true. Some people say its equal, some say inferiour, some say better.
IMO its equal, but i don't feel the mounting point is strong enought for the abuse. This is why extra bracing will be added to the back of my car with the roll cage.
IMO its equal, but i don't feel the mounting point is strong enought for the abuse. This is why extra bracing will be added to the back of my car with the roll cage.
07-18-2011, 11:19 AM
#16
Super Moderator
MY350Z.COM
MY350Z.COM
iTrader: (8)
My car has full SPL arms , full SPL monoball kit , swift spring thrust washers and i'm not running a cheap coilover that my upper spring mount is not dual purpose upper bearing mount. The spring mount and pivot point are seperated.
07-18-2011, 12:13 PM
#17
Neither have I, other than a small weight reduction.
OEM rear setup > True Coilover rear setup
Its spelled out here:
https://my350z.com/forum/brakes-and-...er-or-not.html
There are also many other threads about it. In essence, a bunch of reasons not limited to but including: spindle location bushing not designed to carry weight of car, linear springs behaving progressive due to ark of damper travel, placing the spring on the shock creates bending loads on the shock and therefore friction and binding during its motion so now you have a coilover that has to overcome its internal friction before it can respond to suspension motion....list of issues goes on, hence true coilover for our platform is inferior
OEM rear setup > True Coilover rear setup
Its spelled out here:
https://my350z.com/forum/brakes-and-...er-or-not.html
There are also many other threads about it. In essence, a bunch of reasons not limited to but including: spindle location bushing not designed to carry weight of car, linear springs behaving progressive due to ark of damper travel, placing the spring on the shock creates bending loads on the shock and therefore friction and binding during its motion so now you have a coilover that has to overcome its internal friction before it can respond to suspension motion....list of issues goes on, hence true coilover for our platform is inferior
And the modification's you would have to do to correct the issues are simply beyond the scope or will of any owner to date other then a few 350Z race cars being raced in Japan.
I totally agree with what SPL says and what member "Resolute" aka Wil, have said on the subject.
