dcains

iTrader: (15)

Exactly. My front end links are practically horizontal. They've gotten really noisy, too, so that's another reason why they need to be replaced.

Junkster

iTrader: (3)

So no one has really had too much experience with the circuit sports end links? I have purchased other CS stuff for another car of mine and have always liked their products...i just never tried their end links or anything of the like. The prices really make me wana give em a shot though!

dcains

iTrader: (15)

Well, I decided yesterday to order the links from CZP, mostly because of the price, honestly. But, I'm still concerned about the open design, so I'm going to use some of these seals (at an additional cost of ~$40 total):

http://pitstopusa.com/c-131804-rod-e...end-seals.html

I think the fronts are 1/2" and the rears are 3/8", but I'll wait to order until I receive the links tomorrow and can confirm the size.

Junkster

iTrader: (3)

^great find! But in all honesty i dont think there is THAT much movement to be concerened about. SPL's design is open as well as are alot of higher end joints like these. I plan on just greasing them up really well from time to time to avoid any noises. I really doubt you will have anything to worry about.

dcains

iTrader: (15)

Better safe than sorry, especially for the small cost. There's a lot of fine grit on the roads here in S. Florida, and it rains almost every day in Summer. I ended up ordering the seals from Aircraft Spruce, after Coz sent me the specs on the bolts. The bill was $41.10 shipped USPS or all 16 seals.

Junkster

iTrader: (3)

^i agree, i was actually born in clearwater so i know what your talking about haha...sand doesnt help either if your near the beach!

Keep us posted on how those seals work! I havent heard of anyone running those, maybe ill get some for my SPL outer ties that i just got!

dcains

iTrader: (15)

When I was doing the Google search for seals I found that lots of guys use them for off-road vehicles, ATV's, etc., and they got good reviews.

jerryd87

iTrader: (4)

considering i know a bunch of 4x4 guys who dont run seals and have no issues i doubt theres any need for them. if mud, dirt, rocks, water roots, ect. dont bother spherical ends then i doubt a little rain or a tiny bit of sand that might be on the road is going to be an issue. i dont even know anyone who even greases them since they are such a super fine micropolish.

dont get me wrong it makes sense if something scratch's the finish it would cause binding but ive never heard of anything hard enough to scratch the finish so im not gona ask questions.

AllstarE4

iTrader: (5)

^+1

I don't see the need in adding dust protection. These are rod ends that are typically teflon lined for self lubrication. They are designed for exposure and shouldn't be affected.

dcains

iTrader: (15)

One thing you guys might be missing is that 50K+ miles on a street car can be a much tougher challenge than let's say 500 miles in an off-road race. You'll never see a mass-production car come from the factory with non-sealed ball joints or tie rod ends, right? My wife used to have a Volvo T5, and it developed a tear in the boot on one of its 4 front CV joints. I noticed it while changing the oil, and saw that the boot was fiiled with grease and the tear was quite small, so I left it alone. A few months later that joint failed, which I don't think would have happened had I repaired the boot, as the other 3 joints lasted several years longer. Again, $40 for seals seems like awfully cheap insurance to me.

terrasmak

iTrader: (8)

A CV boot is a completely different animal, all that grease packed into them if for both cooling and lubrication. Without the seal, you lose the grease, without the grease you loose lubrication and cooling. Good bye joint.

dcains

iTrader: (15)

Agreed- not the best example, but you get the idea. Adding seals to the endlinks surely isn't going to hurt anything, as long as they're intact and don't actually serve to keep moisture and grit trapped inside the joint. If I'm going to be the guinea pig for the CZP endlinks, I might as well try the seals, as well, and go all in. Too bad I only put about 6K miles a year on the car, though, so it might take a long time to test the longevity of these new parts.

AllstarE4

iTrader: (5)

That was a horrible example actually. Two totally different types of joints to begin with. And the 50k+ argument is funny cause you're only driving 6k a year.

I probably sound like I'm trying to be an ***, but I'm not. Just razzing you a little. If it makes you more comfortable to add a seal then that's cool. It shouldn't hurt anything. Just trying to say that the rod end joints are a much better design.

jerryd87

iTrader: (4)

actually the abuse the off road vehicles see is massively more then what a street car sees. 500 miles on a nascar car? thats equivalent to about 150k on a street car hence why its rebuilt after every race. most of those 4x4 trucks running full solid suspensions with heim joints like that are making 600+ ft lbs of torque some as high as 1800 ft lbs of torque, with all kinds of forces trying to rip them apart of the nature your vehicle will NEVER see on the street. like has been said the purpose of boots on joints isnt to keep debris out its to keep grease in. theres no reason to grease a heim joint, might even hurt it but im not entirely sure ive never met anyone who tried it but i know greese is a petroleum product and i know what petroleum products do to teflon likes whats inside heim joints and its never good.

again its your decision but just trying to inform you its not needed. its kind of like adding a "tornado" to the intake or 8 oz of advance auto octane booster to boost your octane to a full tank of gas to make "105" octane. its one of those items some one was like "i can sell a cheap product that dosnt do anything but people will think it does simply because it sorta makes sense"

Junkster

iTrader: (3)

I think the main point is that its not going to hurt anything by getting the seals. And although open joints like these would most likely never have any issues WITHOUT the seals they will eventually start making noise due to contamination in the joints from DD’ing. That is another thing that most people don’t care about on cars that are track set or not DD. Im pretty sure the seals will prevent unwanted noise from the extra wear and tear of not having the joints sealed for a bit longer. I think it’s a good idea, and I cant see why it could create problems, so if he has the money for em why not get them??

dcains

iTrader: (15)

I can see this discussion may go on forever, and it seems silly to debate such a thing as a set of $40 seals, but so be it. I just filled the gas up at Chevron and spent $70, so the cost of the seals seems insignificant.

So, the USPS just dropped off the endlinks from CZP (arrived in just two days), and from what I'm seeing, they look to be nice enough. The joints and hardware appear to be high-quality (self-locking nuts are a nice touch), and the rod length is adjustable. Should be an easy install, but some of the seals are back-ordered from Aircraft Spruce, so I'll wait until they're all here at the same time to do the job. I don't plan on lubricating the joints, just want the seals to keep the grit out, so we'll see how that goes over time.

I'll take some pics of the install and post them in a new thread, so anyone else interested in these endlinks will have something to see.

13ino13

iTrader: (2)

I'm interested and can't wait for your review. I'm willing to spend money on those seals as you did.

jjaujou

iTrader: (1)

Just thought I'd weigh in here since there isn't much in the way of press about these links, even a year after the last post in this thread.

Back in June '12, I picked up these links not really knowing much about them, but feeling very very stretched after buying coilovers and sway bars. At half the price of other end links, I took the bait before knowing anything about Heim Joints or sealed boots or a great many other things. I installed everything with Entaille (is he even around this forum anymore?) and had the work checked and tuned by a very well regarded shop (Cantrell Motorsports). They gave the all-clear, but mentioned that one of the joints had a slight amount of play in it. Not a major concern, but something to be aware of and a noise maker.

Two track days, 10 months, xx,000 miles (I dunno, a normal-ish amount) later, and my suspension was doing low speed clunks so bad that I literally started to dislike my car. If a nice car rattles like a cheap piece of ****, it pretty much kills the enjoyment. Finally fed up, I had Cantrell replace them with some nice Powergrid end links I picked up from Chip Minich. I took a look at the CS links afterward and just shook my head. They'd both become so rusted out and crusty with grime that they'd seized up almost completely, and barely moved at all.

So, there you go, that's my experience with them. When they were new, they felt great, worked as advertised, performed on the track, etc, etc, etc. They were fine. They just wore out fast and got noisy. The Cantrell guys said that those kinds of joints are usually fine to run on a dedicated track car, when things are being taken apart and cleaned after every race, yadda yadda yadda. Sure, probably. Street driving sure beat the **** out of them, that's for sure.

I'll take my nice, booted Powergrids, lube 'em out when I change my oil, and call it good.

Watkins

iTrader: (1)

I've got it detailed in another thread, but the CZP endlinks leave a lot to be desired. I actually still have them, well, the center shaft, but beyond that they have been completely replaced with all new military grade parts. I ordered everything from McMaster-Carr but in the long run, the cost of the upgrade parts (Mil. Spec. Ball Joint Rod Ends) for the CZP endlinks have now dwarfed the cost of Powergrids. But, oh well. You live and learn.

K51

I've got a set on my '08, too, and they indeed worked well for a bit (as in maybe 1K miles), and now they're noisy and just horrible to drive with (now maybe 3K miles). Also had lots of issues trying to keep the nuts tight, until I used Loctite Red, and they've caused some damage to the holes in the Hotchkis bars.

Live and learn, I suppose, and BTW, mine are clean and shiny, and I even used those seals mentioned by the OP. They'll be in the trash soon, as I've got an alignment planned in the next few weeks and will replace them beforehand. Worst $150 I've spent on the Z.