Alberto

iTrader: (14)

60ft's and 1/8 et's were on par with both runs in winter/summer, Ive dissected the slips with no answer, Im simply providing my own experiences for me it hasnt been a big deal. Ive pulled 2.0 60ft's on 5 diff sets of tires NA, from 35 degree temps spinning easily to 100 degree temps.

My NA friends than can drive have the same experiences. Our recent track day-EVERYBODY was complaining they were running slow. Most NA Z's full bolt-ons were running mid 14's! Todd and 20+ Z owners as my witness. Only the good drivers ran good times-explain that? I ran 11.1, Aceman ran 13.3, My buddy ran his normal times. People OVERUSE the weather excuse IMO. You guys act like people dont run bad times in MD LMAO....

Yeah the top of the lists arenna be occupied with MD, NJ, FL times, thats the way it goes. If you guys are gonna start b!tching about where people live eventually you'll start adding corrections and the list will be garbage. People arent blind they can see where the top guys live...sounds like a bunch of Z owners with their panties in a bunch who want recognition. I know many of the guys on the list who arent top 5 can drive!

Fluid1

iTrader: (19)

Launching is one thing. It is juvenile to think or say that humidity and temperature don't effect power, and even moreso on a car with FI. Unless, of course, there is an additional map or tune for those conditions.

Alberto

iTrader: (14)

I do know turbo cars create their own atmosphere read my post above my friends who are ALL MOTOR arent affected as much as some of you guys claim. Perhaps its YOU guys who need to learn to cope with changing conditions, instead of complaining about the fact you dont live in states with fast tracks

Alberto

iTrader: (14)

It does affect you-by no more than about .2 tenths when you can drive, otherwise-and I know its hard to swallow for you guys its not as big a deal as you think-its YOU behind the wheel.

Why can my NA friends run 14.0 in fall and no slower than 14.2 in dead of summer? They lose about 1mph as well, but thats it.

On the flip side we have guys like DavidV-who run 13.3 in fall and couldnt even hit 13's on our track day-no offense to David but was he coping with track conditions? My guess is his 60ft was way off his good low 1.9's and he ran "avg" times. He's a perfect example IMO for your side of the argument...

Dave B

iTrader: (2)

Well, I agree that people overuse the weather excuse, especially people in southern Califorina. It's like listening to a broken record when it comes to the excuses as to why their times are much slower than most across the nation. Yes, I know the SOCAL tracks are usually slow. I get it. List your run and note the DA. Done deal.

DA needs to be posted when noting your run in a 1/4 mile database. It makes a difference with an NA car and you're absolutely kidding yourself if you think otherwise. Why in the world do you think drag race teams have elaborate weather stations and when you're watching an NHRA event on TV, they're constantly referencing track temps and DA? It is very important to the tuning of the car and how it influences the power levels. Why do you think the NHRA has correction factors for conditions?

Alberto

iTrader: (14)

Do you disagree that if you can drive, it will not affect you .5+ seconds like it affects 97% of the people on this forum? Guys running 13.4 in winter in MD and then having trouble running 13's in fall is a joke, I know many cases of that-they cant cope with track conditions, fudge up the launch and blame the weather.

My statement stands, if you can drive (I know, I know everybody can drive online) you wont see more than .2 MAYBE .3 difference at the same track from awesome conditions to bad conditions. This has been my experience AND my friends experiences FI AND All motor

dutchboy350Z

iTrader: (5)

I ran my Z for that track day and mostly agree with Alberto. The track conditions weren't the greatest (traction-wise), but I guess you learn to adapt with what you have.

I made 25 runs. Half of them were horrible (mis-shift, bogged out on the line, etc.) a quarter of them were ok (clutch started to slip, didn't have the cleanest shifts) and a handful of them I was fairly pleased with.

I would also point out that my fastest trap was on my last run. This was after 5+ consecutve runs back-to-back with no wait. You would have thought due to heat soak I would have had one of my slowest traps, but IMO I think I was just getting better at launching and using better shifting points.

For the most part Driver > track conditions.

S8ER95Z

I ran 13.4 @ 104mph and 13.5 @ 105mph on 2.1 60fts consistantly over the summer (I have over a dozen timeslips)... with great shifts (me not making retard mistakes). This was racing in 3000+ DA conditions....

I ran a 13.2 @ 107mph and a 13.1 @ 108mph just last weekend in the fall air (out of 3 attempts... 1 run was a 13.8 @ 106mph on a 2.4 60ft) and I tapped the speed limiter in 3 gears on the 13.2 run and tapped the limiter 1 time on the 13.1 pass. This was in PERFECT conditions and near -1000DA.

Anyone who says DA doesn't affect their performance 'much' is uneducated/confused. If you don't believe me take your 'awesome' driving skills up to Colorado and bring me back a timeslip if you get anything worthy of posting it would be a miracle.

You have either A) never experienced 3000+DA before or B) still believe the earth is flat.

Minor variations of DA (1000+/-) won't affect you by more than a tenth or two as you said... but not everyone has that priviledge. Where I live I can have a 2000+/- DA change within a few hours time and it's a much bigger chunk off my times than you are even entertaining.

If this still doesn't make sense to you ...go ask any pilot about DA. I work with 3 of them and we've had this conversation many times.

Dave B

iTrader: (2)

You really can't be this ignorant. I've been racing at KCIR since about 1996 and have raced at 3 other tracks over the years. I've probably made 500 1/4 passes in my 94 Z28, 96 Maxima, and G35 plus numerous friends Mustangs, Hondas, Subarus, and F-Bodies. I know for a fact that if I run on a 100 degree day vs a 50 degree day, my car will be .4 to .5 seconds slower with a reduction in MPH of about 3mph to 4mph.

You do realize that DA is very important to non-forced induced aircraft engines, correct? Without knowing the DA, you could potentially stall you plane in flight. There's a reason the turbo prop and jet engine are the benchmark. DA is not some hokey number calculator for those on crappy higher altitude tracks.

Here's a simple comparison between conditions on a hot Kansas day in the summer and a cool fall day.

8/24/06
Altitude: 1,100'
Temp: 95 degrees
Dew point: 68.0 degrees
Baro: 29.70

Calculated DA: 4,166'
Relative HP: 92.6%


11/6/07
Altitude: 1,100'
Temp: 47 degrees
Dew point: 19.9 degrees
Baro: 30.43

Calculated DA: 31'
Relative HP: 103%

Let's, which day would my NA car be faster. The day where the density of air is 93% or the day it's 103%. On a G35 like mine, that could mean the difference between having 210whp or 232whp. I think the answer is fairly obvious to most of us.

Alberto

iTrader: (14)

SE-Im talking temp changes, quote me where I said DA doesnt affect you? I know temp is a part of calculating DA. DA for my 11.1 run and for Aceman the night he was running LOW 13's compared to 14's for other mod'd Z's was 1966 IIRC

I wish I had started calculating DA sooner Id post my findings but I havent. Did you ever possibly think you simply got better at handling your car? 105mph for an LS1 is subpar, of course you being an awesome driver attribute it all to the weather?

Alberto

iTrader: (14)

Dave-you have your experiences, I have mine. You cant tell me Im wrong like I Cant tell you your wrong.

All I do know is my buddies (excluding myself) can run within a few tenths bewteen bad and good conditions. Most other people coudlnt run within .5 second in that same difference. What do you think the difference bewteen these 2 situations is then?

Peak350

iTrader: (6)

I'm seeing .1 second per 10 degrees same baro/humidity when I compare new/old slips. I can't say without a doubt its all weather, as I started with less miles and higher temps, and the car could just be getting faster with time (as parts wear in a bit better) so we'll see next year, but I see .4 - .5 as being reasonable for conditions changes going from one extreme to another. But I don't see that much change in the 330/660/ 1/8th mile times as reasonable....much much less should be expected.

Alberto

iTrader: (14)

Fair enough...everybody has different experiences. For you .5 maybe the norm, for me .2 may be the norm. Its funny the guys who see .5 or more think Im ignorant for posting my experiences...

ANother example

NA GREAT conditions-temp wise 13.13 @ 107

Horrible conditions-much hotter/humid same launches 13.3 @ 104mph

Obviously big diff in trap (btw my car NA melted the grounding strap to the plug after this track day for some reason-drove hom on 5 cyl), but ET was very close...I bet if the plugs hadnt been so crappy it would have been less of a difference/

S8ER95Z

Considering I consider my driving skills to be rather lacking I did consider it. Sadly I drove better over the summer than I did last weekend and I have 9 passes with missed 3rd gear shifts last weekend to show my lack of driving skill. My 60fts didn't change, it's the same car running 92 octane from the same station and the same tires that I ran on last time, same clutch, same air filter, etc.... If you do the DA calculations for my runs my times over the summer converted to a 12.9 @ 108mph at 0DA which is close but considering those calculations are not 100% accurate and other factors contribute to consistancy I would say it's a good indication of what to expect with extremes.

I apologize for jumping you regarding DA (i dont' see where you said DA, just temp) but you can't take one variable from an array and leave the rest constants. When the temp changes so do the other variables making up the DA.

Alberto

iTrader: (14)

I dont believe in DA or altitude corrections. Obviously they can both affect you significantly, but you when you start GUESSING times go out the window. Thats like correcting a Dyno Dynamics to read like a Dynojet. Only way to know what you'd really run at 0DA is to do it. Just my opinion Ive never corrected my times.

VeeTec

I've noticed that my clutch pressure has increased with cooler weather. That, and the car has been running stronger than ever. I also switched to BP 93, which seems to allow for the most timing.

Sooner or later I will have an opportunity to run on one of these very cool nights, and I expect some very surprising times, given how the car has been running. I think the trick is, with our 07's, to slip the clutch at 2,500 or so, for best results. Then hopefully the pressure will hold. The problem comes from doing a quick burn out, to heat up and clean off the tires. That will heat up the fluid. We'll see how it goes soon.

S8ER95Z

I've never corrected my times and presented them as proof...only as a 'what if'. They were not far off in that scenario but they were obviously not 100% accurate.

I completely agree with you on the guessing of times... but DA/Alt Corrections do show there is a significant difference when the air density changes... guys stuck at 3000FT tracks will never run what I can run at my track sitting at 614FT in the same weather. It's a fact. If there was a 100% way to correct for them I would (much like the corrections applied to dyno sheets all over the country ) Unfortunately people are ok with corrected dyno sheets based on standardized conditions but not corrected 1/4 times based on standardized conditions.

3hree5ive0ero

iTrader: (95)

@ Alberto's posts about how conditions don't matter then saying "quote me where I said DA doesn't matter" when backed into a corner. I'd say the members were using weather conditions and DA synonymously and not just talking about temperature, which you seem to be referring all of a sudden. It doesn't matter if you or your NA friends or whoever do not run times that greatly vary even though the climate changes are from 40 to 100 degrees. The fact of the matter is, DA is an important factor to consider when analyzing times, regardless of what you say/think.

I do agree that the weather shouldn't affect your times more than .5 second though, given that you're on the same track. Any bigger difference would make me wonder about the driver's abilities before DA.

BTW, have you considered that your "horrible conditions" aren't really all that horrible compared to those that some others experience when they say horrible? I don't post corrected times, neither. I do, however, see the actual vs corrected and compare it to my previous actual vs corrected times to see how much other factors contributed to the differences.


P.S. - Alberto, I don't really have anything against you. It was just funny, that's all. Ok, well you could be a little less boastful and condescending. Other than that, I do recognize you as one of the better drivers and I congratulate you on your achievements. After all, your posts were what got me drag racing and I looked up to you when I first started drag racing little over a year ago.

WalkerT

iTrader: (13)

VeeTec

I believe in posting the uncorrected times, but I will note the DA sometimes, as it shows just how good or bad the conditions were.

Posting corrected times is just speculation, for conversation. You ran what you ran.