3hree5ive0ero

iTrader: (95)

We could make a trip to HRP (5 hr drive) sometime in December and race there. Perhaps, setting a PB there (lower altitude) would be worth the trip.
+1

HDPDZO6

Isn't that one of the main reasons for the Top 25 list? You seem to fault those at high DA's for wanting recognition, yet condone those who race at good tracks...

That's why I used the example of the guy here in Vegas who just recently ran a ~13.7 (bolt-ons). Because the time is slower than any on the top 25, he receives no recognition from his peers, yet if you disect the slip info, you would see in fact he outdrove 90% of the Top 25. Up until his run (at LVMS), no one had succeeded in breaking into the 13's with an NA Z.

And regardless of what you believe, weather conditions (as well as DA) play a very large role in the performance output of a normally aspirated motor.

That's why imo, in regards to NA Z's, the Top 25 list is an indicator of only the performance of the 350Z itself at prime track locations. It's is not very accurate at all in regards to driver skill.

ma_sha1

iTrader: (1)

I don't think it's your experiences that's being challenged,
It's your conclusions.

For a car like yours, you have more hp than the tire could provide traction,
therefore, the temp. changes which did affect your hp is not translated into 1/4 mile slip variations. Because the hp isn't the rate limiting step in your set-up. In hot weather, you'll still have more hp than traction could handle, therefore, your time won't necessary be affected by Temp. Your potential has been maxied out by traction, more hp won't make it faster until you gain more traction first. If anything, the hot weather give better traction to your tires & may allow you to put more hp on the ground.

As for NA & S/C like mine with AWD, The rate limiting step is not traction, it's hp. I have not lost any traction at all, no tire spin at launch. My car is easily affected by temp. Besides running on the track, I time myself frequently with G-timer & over the years observed huge temp. dependence, both NA/ & S/C, which is inline with other's observe. 0.4-0.5 better when temp. going from 80F to 30F.

Sum it up:
You & the other group of people both are correct in terms of experiences,
but both are Not correct in terms of generalizing experiences to all cars with all set-ups.

Conclusion:
If your car is limited by traction, you slip may be less temp. dependent.
If your car is limited by hp, no tire spin at launch, you slip will be affected by temp, big time.

Also, drag radial tire is more sensitive to temp than stock all season, provide much more traction in hot days & not as good in cold days. Cars running on street All season tires provide better traction in cold days. This further complicates different set-up & vs. different observations given by different people.

SergEK

My home track for a few years was near 3000ft ASL...even if weather was perfect you would NEVER see a negative DA there whereas you will on MANY MANY east coast sea level tracks....those who live/track their cars at negative DA strips contend it doesnt matter yet the NHRA says it does....interesting

If the NHRA uses correction factors for TRACK LOCATIONS why cant the list?

SergEK

You do realize booted cars and NA cars are vastly different when it comes to DA?

DA is a factor of temps, baro AND elevation

How many 3000+ ASL tracks have you been to in the dead of summer with DAs at or ABOVE 7000? I doubt youve even spectated at at track with high elevation

Dave B

iTrader: (2)

Well, you're crazy if you disregard DA and it's impacts on a car's performance. I'm a terribly consistent driver. With my G35, I know after my first run what the car will be capable off simply by MPH because it will only vary .5mph over the entire day. My ETs are within .1 seconds and my 6 0foots are within .05 seconds unless I hit a slick spot on the 60 foot.

DA influences my runs so much that I've given up going to the track in temps over 70 degrees just because the impact is so significant. I race to get new bests and running in 1,500+' DAs won't get me there. I want all the power I can get.

DanielW

iTrader: (27)

Key to drag racing = Never Granny Shift and Always Double Clutch some bald guy taught me that

ACEMAN

iTrader: (29)

Hey Guys,

DA does come into play, but driving the car to its FULL potential makes more of a difference. Like Alberto was saying about our track day. Everyone there was having a hard time running good times and I was able to hit a 13.3. Shifting makes a big difference.

Also, when i ran my 13.0 i posted my DA and it was like running at over 1400 feet above sea lvl.

So you guys with tracks above or around 1000ft should still be able to hit low 13's

Here is the link and the post

https://my350z.com/forum/drag/309377-ran-a-few-more-13-0-s-all-motor.html


Still have not broken into the 12's But atleast im still getting close

TyWinter and I went over to Mason Dixon Dragway today and had a great time. He improved his time ( first time on slicks ) and i almost improved mine.

Mason Dixon is 550 feet above sea lvl.. I checked the Density Altitude for today and it was like running at 1421 feet above sea lvl. We had a temp of 71 degrees


Later
Todd

Dave B

iTrader: (2)

I couldn't agree more. I don't believe in posting corrected times at all. When I post my slips, I list the entire run down of the slip and then the DA conditions.

I use the DA and correction factors to equalize the runs and determine if a change I made to my car is working or not. It's not an exact science, but it does work with a high level of accuracy.

One thing that really rubs me the wrong way is when people say things like "my intake/UDP/etc improved my 1/4 mile by .3 second and 2mph" when in fact it was the better conditions and 60 foot. It irritates because most people don't know this and then all of sudden we have people saying things like intakes and UDPs are actually improving ET/MPH by technically 20whp.

SergEK

If you or anyone else truly think this I challenge them to run a 13 sec pass in a stock DE Z, in Denver, in the summer since driving matters more than DA

Oh by the way....you may see DA approaching 8-10K...have fun...I am sure youll all drive the wheels off

NHRA altitude correction factors
Below are the NHRA Altitude Correction formulas for all sportsman categories for NHRA member tracks that are classified as altitude facilities:

Convert to Sea Level Convert to Altitude
Track Name Alt ET MPH 1/2ET 1/2MPH ET MPH 1/2ET 1/2MPH
Denver, CO 5800 .9405 1.0563 .9702 1.0281 1.0633 .9467 1.0307 .9726

So a 13.6@101 run at sea level is considered a 14.46@95.6 at Denver just factoring in pure elevation......add 100* temps or more and you reall think driving ability (which 13.6@101 for a stock DE is not lacking) is going to drop you 6-7 tenths?

I really wanna see this

Said Z owner runs a 14.3 stock and the avg person wont even notice...call it slow...and wont make the top 25 even though converted its very good driving

Hell you could even have a non-corrected and corrected list if the corrections make that big a deal to you.....at least then people who race at the 24 tracks listed by the NHRA as elevation tracks have a chance to compare and showcase their results without have to drive 8-14 hours or more to hit a sea level track

ACEMAN

iTrader: (29)

Well, that is taking it to the extreme..

I totally agree with you in that case..

Im not say that DA does not make a difference, but someone is this thread said we are running these good times with a negative DA. And i posted the DA for the 13.0 that I ran and its over 1400ft.

Just post the temp and YOU guys do the work and find your DA for the day and post that with your slip.. Thats all i can do, im not doing the work for you. This list takes enough time to keep it updated.

Have fun out there guys and be safe.

Todd

SergEK

No I said the list will always comprise of drivers at tracks with negative DA ---- not that the fastest runs will always be negative DA conditions just that those living at these tracks have an opportunity of the absoloute best conditions -1000 is a dream to people in Denver whereas its a reality at Englishtown every year

Mod for mod the Z owner who races at englishtown will always post better PB slips than Denver even if the guy in Denver drives the wheels off....the conditions will NEVER allow him to come even close

So to say DA doesnt really matter.....rookie outlook, and why I posted the DA correction.....if it didnt matter the NHRA wouldnt recognize it or make it OFFICIAL

will a couple hundred feet of DA make a huge difference, of course not....but 3k+ DA will for sure and to pass it off like nothing to consider is a little near sighted....since those who are against corrections live on the east coast where the DA is damn near perfect compared to many tracks arcoss the country....seriously 600ft DA? That's 1/5 the natural elevation of most altitude tracks and 1/10 Denver....funny enough at 3000ft ASL you can expect to run about 5 tenths slower and in Denver you can expect to run a full second slower (on average, sometimes worse with higher temps)

But I am sure those super consisten drivers who are all within a tenth of eachother can knock off a full second just talking harshly to the Z while shifting

Just trying to open the minds a little

ACEMAN

iTrader: (29)

I know DA makes a difference.. Im not argueing that.

If i did not, then there would not be a link on the first page of the drag list to calculate it out.

For the guys that run at a high elevation track

1. Post your slip
2. Post your temp
3. Post the DA for that day

Then we as a comunity can see you are truely a good drag racer.

Todd

Alberto

iTrader: (14)

Elevation of course is a factor-once over about 2500 feet, its a larger factor. Anything under in my experience or DA's 2000 or under dont affect us much.

What Todd mentioned was true-the guys that drive their cars to their full potential dont see such dramatic changes as guys who cant-and the guys who cant are about 90% of these times IMO. The driver is the biggest factor-DA of -100 or 4000, altitude of 100ft or 10,000ft. Im sick of these guys complaining about not running 13's with DA's of "only" 2000 that is a joke. You guys can knit pick me all you want, I stand by my beliefs.

Yes it sucks that guys in CO wont get recognition like guys in MD, but if your gonna cry about everything you may as well start a complete drag race class like the current one by state---> and by then the list is a joke.

What was the point of this thread other than a rant? I also stil stand by my original reply-most racers on here dont know what DA is or how to get it, they wont post it or post about conditions. Having a newb or avg guy who drag races post conditions is worthless, UNLESS he is at an extreme of DA or elevation in which case the conditions will be more of a factor than his driving.

Alberto

iTrader: (14)

SergEK-this is a perfect example of a guy who would cry about his times. Why? Look at his sig...He beleives his bogus Church automotive dyno numbers. Known for very high #'s he'd go to the track run high 13's and complain about the weather. But hey-lets adjust the complete drag registry to show people that he really isnt that bad of a driver

I respect peoples opinions in here-ESPECIALLY those that run their cars. If you havent you shouldnt even post in this thread. Serg-have you even run your car?

HDPDZO6

So you could almost see the parallells between a Church Dyno # and a run at a sea level track that had a decent negative DA for that particular day?

Alberto

iTrader: (14)

No-numbers are numbers. You really cannot compare. Even between 2 diff tracks in MD they are off. Because of this, everybody cant be on the same page, its the way it goes. Guys in CO cant be compared to guys on the east coast. Church's crackhead dyno cant be compared to others. Him having that in his sig, and beleiving he has close to 280whp is like somebody in CO posting a corrected 1/4 time...just silly

3hree5ive0ero

iTrader: (95)

The whole point of the thread was to stop unnecessary commenting that seem to be "advices" when it's actually regurgitated crap that members who don't know much about drag racing just read on the forums.

dutchboy350Z

iTrader: (5)

Alberto I do think you're forgetting one thing. You and Tood were running on ET Streets, and Dan was on some form of a drag radial.

The rest of us where running on street tires. I remember talking to Louie at the track that day and he was commenting on the track not being very well prepped at all. I think there were some cars running that were losing traction in third (The black vortech G comes to mind, trapping 113).

My first time at a Drag strip (Capital, which appears to be much stickier) I cut a 2.15 60' not having a clue what I was doing, bone stock, and full weight.

At Mason Dixon that day my best 60' was 2.211 and that was with 20+ passes. Same street tires/wheels when I was at Capital. This time around I was About 100 lbs lighter (no cats, no spare, less 1/8 gas tank) and had about 10 whp (Plenun Spacer, TPs, Y-pipe).

So I think that came into play as to why the rest of the Z guys on street tires weren't getting stellar ETs.

I know davidv wouldn't want this known, but he didn't even break into the 13s on his street setup (He just recently got a PB of 13.3). Which in turn made me feel a lot better about my times.

HDPDZO6

I agree with you here 100%. There have been numerous posts which give out bad (and outright dangerous) advice in regards to racing tips, etc.