87mm TB Project
05-29-2013, 07:21 AM
#41
If the caddy TB works then any LSx TB with DBW should work. I know the Trailblazer SS has a Hitachi unit as well and those go from 90mm+ depending how deep your pockets are.
These are the types of threads that drive innovation for this aging platform. Most will fail but those that don't become legends. I remember when SG was told that the VQ was a dead end in NA tuning since so many before them had failed after trying 4+ liter strokers, massive cams and barely breaking 300rwhp. People told SG that the intake manifold plus a spacer was more than adequate for the displacement of the motors. 370rwhp and a few youtube vids with dynos later... and SG now became the godfather of NA power on my350z. Being on here for the last several years a few general trends keep coming up.
1. The cams on the non-revup are a major limiting factor. SG worked with Revups which have more aggressive cams (along with ******** exhaust valve timing thats probably only useful for emissions). Even in OEM form, both Revups and non-revups start tapering off above ~6500rpm.
2. The OEM coffin manifold is NOT sufficient in airflow. Another previously unknown 'failure' named Motordyne rocked the VQ community years ago with a cheap and effective spacer that helps with the air issue on minor bolton cars. The ancestor before him Crawford also found and addressed the same issue with a slightly more complete solution (cast manifold with larger neck). Even Nissan themselves acknowledged the issue with the newer Revup lower intake manifolds. All of these are bandaids for a much bigger problem that nobody has really addressed and mass produced.
3. A throttlebody alone will do nothing on an otherwise stock motor. I have an ancient Proflow ported TB that another company 350evo used to sell. It's pretty, but that's about all it's good for unless the manifold issue is addressed as well.
Keep this going guys. Before SG went ITB there was still quite a bit of room for power left on this motor with stock longblocks. The more people that do this, the more likely that I will drop my JZ project and dust off the old Z
These are the types of threads that drive innovation for this aging platform. Most will fail but those that don't become legends. I remember when SG was told that the VQ was a dead end in NA tuning since so many before them had failed after trying 4+ liter strokers, massive cams and barely breaking 300rwhp. People told SG that the intake manifold plus a spacer was more than adequate for the displacement of the motors. 370rwhp and a few youtube vids with dynos later... and SG now became the godfather of NA power on my350z. Being on here for the last several years a few general trends keep coming up.
1. The cams on the non-revup are a major limiting factor. SG worked with Revups which have more aggressive cams (along with ******** exhaust valve timing thats probably only useful for emissions). Even in OEM form, both Revups and non-revups start tapering off above ~6500rpm.
2. The OEM coffin manifold is NOT sufficient in airflow. Another previously unknown 'failure' named Motordyne rocked the VQ community years ago with a cheap and effective spacer that helps with the air issue on minor bolton cars. The ancestor before him Crawford also found and addressed the same issue with a slightly more complete solution (cast manifold with larger neck). Even Nissan themselves acknowledged the issue with the newer Revup lower intake manifolds. All of these are bandaids for a much bigger problem that nobody has really addressed and mass produced.
3. A throttlebody alone will do nothing on an otherwise stock motor. I have an ancient Proflow ported TB that another company 350evo used to sell. It's pretty, but that's about all it's good for unless the manifold issue is addressed as well.
Keep this going guys. Before SG went ITB there was still quite a bit of room for power left on this motor with stock longblocks. The more people that do this, the more likely that I will drop my JZ project and dust off the old Z
05-29-2013, 08:55 AM
#42
If the caddy TB works then any LSx TB with DBW should work. I know the Trailblazer SS has a Hitachi unit as well and those go from 90mm+ depending how deep your pockets are.
These are the types of threads that drive innovation for this aging platform. Most will fail but those that don't become legends. I remember when SG was told that the VQ was a dead end in NA tuning since so many before them had failed after trying 4+ liter strokers, massive cams and barely breaking 300rwhp. People told SG that the intake manifold plus a spacer was more than adequate for the displacement of the motors. 370rwhp and a few youtube vids with dynos later... and SG now became the godfather of NA power on my350z. Being on here for the last several years a few general trends keep coming up.
1. The cams on the non-revup are a major limiting factor. SG worked with Revups which have more aggressive cams (along with ******** exhaust valve timing thats probably only useful for emissions). Even in OEM form, both Revups and non-revups start tapering off above ~6500rpm.
2. The OEM coffin manifold is NOT sufficient in airflow. Another previously unknown 'failure' named Motordyne rocked the VQ community years ago with a cheap and effective spacer that helps with the air issue on minor bolton cars. The ancestor before him Crawford also found and addressed the same issue with a slightly more complete solution (cast manifold with larger neck). Even Nissan themselves acknowledged the issue with the newer Revup lower intake manifolds. All of these are bandaids for a much bigger problem that nobody has really addressed and mass produced.
3. A throttlebody alone will do nothing on an otherwise stock motor. I have an ancient Proflow ported TB that another company 350evo used to sell. It's pretty, but that's about all it's good for unless the manifold issue is addressed as well.
Keep this going guys. Before SG went ITB there was still quite a bit of room for power left on this motor with stock longblocks. The more people that do this, the more likely that I will drop my JZ project and dust off the old Z
These are the types of threads that drive innovation for this aging platform. Most will fail but those that don't become legends. I remember when SG was told that the VQ was a dead end in NA tuning since so many before them had failed after trying 4+ liter strokers, massive cams and barely breaking 300rwhp. People told SG that the intake manifold plus a spacer was more than adequate for the displacement of the motors. 370rwhp and a few youtube vids with dynos later... and SG now became the godfather of NA power on my350z. Being on here for the last several years a few general trends keep coming up.
1. The cams on the non-revup are a major limiting factor. SG worked with Revups which have more aggressive cams (along with ******** exhaust valve timing thats probably only useful for emissions). Even in OEM form, both Revups and non-revups start tapering off above ~6500rpm.
2. The OEM coffin manifold is NOT sufficient in airflow. Another previously unknown 'failure' named Motordyne rocked the VQ community years ago with a cheap and effective spacer that helps with the air issue on minor bolton cars. The ancestor before him Crawford also found and addressed the same issue with a slightly more complete solution (cast manifold with larger neck). Even Nissan themselves acknowledged the issue with the newer Revup lower intake manifolds. All of these are bandaids for a much bigger problem that nobody has really addressed and mass produced.
3. A throttlebody alone will do nothing on an otherwise stock motor. I have an ancient Proflow ported TB that another company 350evo used to sell. It's pretty, but that's about all it's good for unless the manifold issue is addressed as well.
Keep this going guys. Before SG went ITB there was still quite a bit of room for power left on this motor with stock longblocks. The more people that do this, the more likely that I will drop my JZ project and dust off the old Z
Nice write up, we are both commented to finishing this project. Mechanically and fabrication wont be the issue, electrically is where we might have are work cut out for us. We both understand that the TB might not due much, but its one of the few things you can not buy and just make work, so thats why we decided to tackle this first. Headers, cams, and engine builds are just deep pockets, this project will take some trial and error.
05-29-2013, 12:09 PM
#43
Nice little bit of history. I Agree too.
The priority right now is just getting this to work and function. Then comes headers and engine builds later. My goal is 330whp which is totally attainable. The reason 330whp is because that puts me in the ST3 class where I want to be and right at the top of power/weight.
If we end up having to fabricate an entire plenum, then so be it.
The priority right now is just getting this to work and function. Then comes headers and engine builds later. My goal is 330whp which is totally attainable. The reason 330whp is because that puts me in the ST3 class where I want to be and right at the top of power/weight.
If we end up having to fabricate an entire plenum, then so be it.
Last edited by Fixxxercask; 05-29-2013 at 12:12 PM.
05-29-2013, 02:34 PM
#44
Got most of the test fitting done this evening. Remember this is mostly temporary so I can get all the electrical portion working. You can see in the pics below, the TB adapter plates that mw9 made fit perfectly. He is more than doing his part on this.
I bought a 4" 45 degree pipe, the 4" MAF pipe, a straight 4" piece, 4" cone filter and (3) 4" couplers. The straight piece I have is 2ft long. I measured and I need an 8.5" piece cut off of it to complete the intake. I won't be able to get it cut until next week though because I want to take to my buddies shop and cut it with a band saw. Next week I will do the wire splicing and completely put the intake together. From there its all Uprev and then seeing if she fires up.
I bought a 4" 45 degree pipe, the 4" MAF pipe, a straight 4" piece, 4" cone filter and (3) 4" couplers. The straight piece I have is 2ft long. I measured and I need an 8.5" piece cut off of it to complete the intake. I won't be able to get it cut until next week though because I want to take to my buddies shop and cut it with a band saw. Next week I will do the wire splicing and completely put the intake together. From there its all Uprev and then seeing if she fires up.
05-30-2013, 08:56 AM
#48
Got most of the test fitting done this evening. Remember this is mostly temporary so I can get all the electrical portion working. You can see in the pics below, the TB adapter plates that mw9 made fit perfectly. He is more than doing his part on this.
I bought a 4" 45 degree pipe, the 4" MAF pipe, a straight 4" piece, 4" cone filter and (3) 4" couplers. The straight piece I have is 2ft long. I measured and I need an 8.5" piece cut off of it to complete the intake. I won't be able to get it cut until next week though because I want to take to my buddies shop and cut it with a band saw. Next week I will do the wire splicing and completely put the intake together. From there its all Uprev and then seeing if she fires up.
I bought a 4" 45 degree pipe, the 4" MAF pipe, a straight 4" piece, 4" cone filter and (3) 4" couplers. The straight piece I have is 2ft long. I measured and I need an 8.5" piece cut off of it to complete the intake. I won't be able to get it cut until next week though because I want to take to my buddies shop and cut it with a band saw. Next week I will do the wire splicing and completely put the intake together. From there its all Uprev and then seeing if she fires up.
06-06-2013, 02:43 PM
#51
OK. Got everything hooked up tonight and the car would not start. 
I didn't really have much time to t-shoot. I need to double check my wiring though. I was only getting one code and it was Throttle Body Control Motor1 or something along those lines. I apologize I did not write the code down. Unfortunately, I won't be able to get back at troubleshooting until next week. So far I changed the entire MAF table using this formula.
NewKvalue=(newmaf housing area)/(oldmaf housing area)*originalKvalue
Towards the end I hit 65535 which the max value. The last 6-7 entries that had to be this value so that is not good. Does this mean I need an aftermarket MAF? This was only at the top end voltages so that should not affect the car starting.
I have not changed any of the TB voltage fields in Uprev either. Based on what I read this TB should require little to no changes. I will need to look into that more.
Here are pics of it all hooked up.
I didn't really have much time to t-shoot. I need to double check my wiring though. I was only getting one code and it was Throttle Body Control Motor1 or something along those lines. I apologize I did not write the code down. Unfortunately, I won't be able to get back at troubleshooting until next week. So far I changed the entire MAF table using this formula.
NewKvalue=(newmaf housing area)/(oldmaf housing area)*originalKvalue
Towards the end I hit 65535 which the max value. The last 6-7 entries that had to be this value so that is not good. Does this mean I need an aftermarket MAF? This was only at the top end voltages so that should not affect the car starting.
I have not changed any of the TB voltage fields in Uprev either. Based on what I read this TB should require little to no changes. I will need to look into that more.
Here are pics of it all hooked up.
06-07-2013, 01:24 AM
#55
So far I changed the entire MAF table using this formula.
NewKvalue=(newmaf housing area)/(oldmaf housing area)*originalKvalue
Towards the end I hit 65535 which the max value. The last 6-7 entries that had to be this value so that is not good. Does this mean I need an aftermarket MAF? This was only at the top end voltages so that should not affect the car starting.
I have not changed any of the TB voltage fields in Uprev either. Based on what I read this TB should require little to no changes. I will need to look into that more.
NewKvalue=(newmaf housing area)/(oldmaf housing area)*originalKvalue
Towards the end I hit 65535 which the max value. The last 6-7 entries that had to be this value so that is not good. Does this mean I need an aftermarket MAF? This was only at the top end voltages so that should not affect the car starting.
I have not changed any of the TB voltage fields in Uprev either. Based on what I read this TB should require little to no changes. I will need to look into that more.
06-09-2013, 08:24 AM
#59
Wow! I like that!
On a side note, if you guys can get a LS TB to not only work but to also make cruise control work, with some plenum modification it could really open up some VQ's if I still had my 350z I would be on the edge of my seat watching this. I hated how limited NA was with the crappy of a selection we have for intake manifolds. Best of luck!
On a side note, if you guys can get a LS TB to not only work but to also make cruise control work, with some plenum modification it could really open up some VQ's if I still had my 350z I would be on the edge of my seat watching this. I hated how limited NA was with the crappy of a selection we have for intake manifolds. Best of luck!