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Old 03-04-2009, 06:04 PM   #21
welderz
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The exhaust cam is conventional not variable correct me if I'm wrong. So won't there be the possibility of changing exhaust cams.
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Old 03-05-2009, 10:52 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by welderz View Post
The exhaust cam is conventional not variable correct me if I'm wrong. So won't there be the possibility of changing exhaust cams.
That is true, but they exhaust cam is still adjustable. So gains should be viable without having to do $1500 in labor to swap the exhaust cams...
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Old 03-05-2009, 11:17 AM   #23
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Yes, it is very 'tunable'. You can turn off the VVEL system as well. The engineers were already messing with it and they are getting more response from the engine especially down low. Emissions does suffer of course.


If you damage the VVEL system, you will need to replace the head, hence the importance of the performace cut when oil temp climbs too high
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Old 03-05-2009, 04:08 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UpRev View Post
That is true, but they exhaust cam is still adjustable. So gains should be viable without having to do $1500 in labor to swap the exhaust cams...
Since the valves are still connected to round blanks perhaps you still have some room to create various "cams" that will help the VVEL in fine tuning certain areas of the powerband...fine tuning

Given duration and lift go up with the system Im sure the window of change is based on the size of the blanks that are spinning...I could be wrong but I am guessing the followers have an influence and if the blank they are follwing has a changed profile your VVEL manipulation changes for that area or lift/duration spec for that portion of the rotation

Someone had said 300* of duration possible on the standard blanks Thats a big step up from the tiny 03 cams...at least potential wise

Im not discounting it yet because being able to change the lift/duration specs on the fly is great but I was hoping for more adjustability in the levels ...independant increases in lift and or duration instead of joined at the hip changes.....

Still a good system but i-VTEC seems to be better still in some respects....50* of cam timing adj on top of 300*+ duration specs with 13+mm lift....I was hoping for that kind of system on the VQ...VVEL is still new from a manipulation of the cam standpoint but not as "tuner" friendly as I had hoped

I dont see turbos being a problem -- especially at lower boost levels --- its all in the tuning and parts selection --- an F20c motor which has high compression laid down 700whp on stock block/head etc...obviously on race gas with a huge turbo but considering the compression (stock) it was running 18-20psi on 11+:1 comp....pump gas 8-10 psi should be fine

Figure an 8-10% bump in power per psi and you have some pretty healthy numbers even on pump gas...it would just have to be tuned by a pro with a margin of safety

The biggest problem I see going turbo on the new is the high comp setup will like a long tube manifold and most if not all the "kits" today are using logs which wont jive well with the higher revs and comp of the new motor....couple that with the higher flow rates of the new new heads and VVEL and youll see that tuners will have to take a new approach

This type of equal length pulse manifold will be what these motors will want with boost more so than previous motors...it will be intersting to see how someone shoehorns a longtube equal length turbo mani in there...
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Old 03-05-2009, 04:25 PM   #25
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Technosquare and I are going to find out real soon.
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Old 03-06-2009, 09:50 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UMW350Z View Post
Yes, it is very 'tunable'. You can turn off the VVEL system as well. The engineers were already messing with it and they are getting more response from the engine especially down low. Emissions does suffer of course.


If you damage the VVEL system, you will need to replace the head, hence the importance of the performace cut when oil temp climbs too high
You cannot turn off the VVEL system, you would lose all throttle control. VVEL is not like Vtec. With VVEL the throttle bodies come wide open at start, and close when the motor is turned off. All throttle control is done with the lift control in VVEL.
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Old 03-06-2009, 09:57 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SergEK View Post
Since the valves are still connected to round blanks perhaps you still have some room to create various "cams" that will help the VVEL in fine tuning certain areas of the powerband...fine tuning

Given duration and lift go up with the system Im sure the window of change is based on the size of the blanks that are spinning...I could be wrong but I am guessing the followers have an influence and if the blank they are follwing has a changed profile your VVEL manipulation changes for that area or lift/duration spec for that portion of the rotation

Someone had said 300* of duration possible on the standard blanks Thats a big step up from the tiny 03 cams...at least potential wise

Im not discounting it yet because being able to change the lift/duration specs on the fly is great but I was hoping for more adjustability in the levels ...independant increases in lift and or duration instead of joined at the hip changes.....

Still a good system but i-VTEC seems to be better still in some respects....50* of cam timing adj on top of 300*+ duration specs with 13+mm lift....I was hoping for that kind of system on the VQ...VVEL is still new from a manipulation of the cam standpoint but not as "tuner" friendly as I had hoped

I dont see turbos being a problem -- especially at lower boost levels --- its all in the tuning and parts selection --- an F20c motor which has high compression laid down 700whp on stock block/head etc...obviously on race gas with a huge turbo but considering the compression (stock) it was running 18-20psi on 11+:1 comp....pump gas 8-10 psi should be fine

Figure an 8-10% bump in power per psi and you have some pretty healthy numbers even on pump gas...it would just have to be tuned by a pro with a margin of safety

The biggest problem I see going turbo on the new is the high comp setup will like a long tube manifold and most if not all the "kits" today are using logs which wont jive well with the higher revs and comp of the new motor....couple that with the higher flow rates of the new new heads and VVEL and youll see that tuners will have to take a new approach

This type of equal length pulse manifold will be what these motors will want with boost more so than previous motors...it will be intersting to see how someone shoehorns a longtube equal length turbo mani in there...

VVEL setup would need complete system adjustments if you changed the stock VVEL cam profile. There isn't a company out there that even has basic control knowledge of the VVEL system, and I seriously doubt any cam manufacturer is just going to pick it up and run with it.

They'd partner with a technology company like ours, but there has been no communication so far, I'm not going to hold my breath on that either. The R&D costs vs. product sales just aren't going to justify it for the most part. You might have some racing company that is willing to spend $200-$300k on software development but then those costs would have to be added to the selling price of the parts, putting a set of VVEL cams at $3-5k each, plus the software control that you'd have to add to adjust them.
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Old 03-06-2009, 10:23 AM   #28
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We have our VVEL cars running perfectly.... We have them fully under control.
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Old 03-06-2009, 10:54 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UpRev View Post
You cannot turn off the VVEL system, you would lose all throttle control. VVEL is not like Vtec. With VVEL the throttle bodies come wide open at start, and close when the motor is turned off. All throttle control is done with the lift control in VVEL.
You are right, that wasn't an accurate statement. The VVEL can be 'fooled' to affect valve lift though. just gotta disconnect one thing.

There is also not conclusive testing to say if it really helps performance as well. The key to stock 'tuning' will be to stay away from full retardation of cams or minimum valve opening.

Last edited by UMW350Z; 03-06-2009 at 12:17 PM.
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