Off the top of my head my answer is, I dont know. Id like to be able to see a copy of your final judgment, or mediated settlement agreement before I answered your question. Typically after lemon-lawing your car you agree to hold harmless or waive any legal rights against them (car producer).
~AJ.

 

"If something is "fixed" now, it means it was "broken" before, no? SO why not fix it for us?? WHat, at the end of 04 suddenly they learned how to align cars??"

i couldn't have put it better myself. slaponte makes a very precise point and i hope they raise that in court.

 

It amazes me that Nissan is being so hard headed over this issue

 

Point well taken! I agree with you 100%!
So ....Let's go Nissan - the '03/'04 Z owners are getting more than just a little anxious here.

 

Procedurally, I think Nissan must answer the Complaint (or file a motion to dismiss) before plaintiffs have to demonsrate that class certification is appropriate. If the case should be dismissed for some reason (and I'm not saying it should be) it doesn't make sense to go through all of the class certification briefing first?

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you are a member of the class by virtue of meeting the class definition, you don't have to register to "join" the suit. Typically I get notices that I am a member of a class, and that if I DON'T want to participate, I have to send in a document, otherwise I don't have to do a thing.

Why would there be a link to "register" for the class if this is the case?

On a related note, the Nismo suspension does not fix the problem. I tried that along with changing to pilot sports (with my own money) and still have the issue.

 

What did you get when you "lemon-lawed" the car? That usually means full buyback. So, if that's what happened, what more could you possibly be looking for?

 

I agree, since you settled out of the car throught the lemon law, you have been "compensated" and you are no longer an owner (unless you bought another one after that)...

 

Class action lawsuits as a whole are a joke. All they are good for is lining the pockets of law firms.

I have an early 03 Z and all I had to do was get one CORRECT alignment done (at no cost to me) and my feathering problem is completely gone. I'll be very surpised if they rule in favor of the plantiff's in this frivilous lawsuit.

 

BriGuy, even if we don't get the money, the tool does achieve something. Because I am sure Nissan would rather not have to pay (regardless of who gets the money), so fear of the suit should make them TRY to do the right thing.

If you expect the suit to get you $$$, then you will be disapointed. This is why I rather see a permamnent solution and not $10 for everybody...

I had alignment checked by Nissan (1 week after delivery) and later have had 3 more (paid by me). Only on this last one it seems feathering has delayed, at the cost of loose handleing on the car. So all the new thread and alignment is doing is hiding the problem (IMHO)

 

Nobody does the "right" thing in the business world..at least nobody that gets ahead does. Nissan will do whatever they predict will cost them LESS MONEY. Do you think the recent Toyota recall on trucks and SUVs was put out because Toyota is worried about their customer's safety and well being??? Hell no..they calculated the cost of the lawsuits from the front suspension falling apart against how much it would cost for them to fix the problem on all the vehicles that it affects and found fix to be more cost effective. The funny thing is...even if this lawsuit actually runs it's course, and there is either a settlement or a verdict..it will take a LONG time. Most of us won't even own our Z's anymore so any action to "fix" the supposed problem will be virtually useless to us. It's ugly, it's unfair, and it's sad..but it's the way the world works.

I don't ever expect any class action lawsuit to do ANYTHING for me. I don't even involve myself in them.

I'd additionally like to put a little focus on your statement about the decreased handling of the car with the alignment that doesn't feather tires as quickly. This is a SPORTS CAR we're talking about here...certain sacrafices have to be made at the expense of tire wear, ride, and overall suspension part life to make a car handle well. It happens with ALL sports cars to different degrees. It's just a fact of life. The inside edge of the rear tires on the Z wear much more quickly than the outside edge due to the camber setting from the factory which also lets the car handle much better. I don't hear anyone complaining about that. The toe setting on the front suspension, which is what causes feathering, is adjusted as such to allow the car to turn in more crisply and quickly. As you noticed..when you pull that toe out, you lose handling.

The fact of the matter is, you and everyone else with a Z bought a sports car, and a hell of a bargain of a sports car I might add. Tires on a sports car aren't going to last for 40K miles like they do on a Toyota Camry, and the ride will be hard and unsettling sometimes..and the car will make more drivetrain noise and parts will wear out quicker because they have much more stress applied to them.

 

Briguy, I'm happy for you that after the alignment your car is fine, and has no feathering. I thought initially all these owners were just beating the crap out of there cars and causing the feathering. That was until mine started happening. I have had the alignment on my 04'...twice...and been through the whole tire replacement deal. I'm praying that it does not have to go in again.

Many of these people who have 04' don't even get as far as I have. No dealer will touch it. They deny the problem is even affecting the 04's. I want the suit to go forward in hopes that Nissan will replace the defective parts or design with one that will work. This is my 4th sports car and the only one that has done this. Saying it's a sports car and you have to give up quality to own one is just wrong. You must work for Nissan.

 

Give me a break. You are going to give me this cr@p about the sports car that wears the tires faster also??? We are not complaining of inside edge wear due to excesive camber. We are complaining of an UNEVEN edge wear NOT due to camber, known as feathering. If the wear was due to excesive camber, even around the edge, then rotating them side to side WOULD do the trick and we would live with our choice in camber settings.

The problem (which you seem unfamiliar with) is feathering, not camber wear. And there are many a sports car out there who DO NOT do this to their tires evene WITH excesive camber.

Lets put it another way : do you think that [Porsche, Corvette, Mazda, BMW, fill any brand here] would sell many cars if they stated : for the car to handle properly you need to replace your tires every 8K miles??? Is that what Porches do? Eat tires every 8K miles? Do you know of ANY sports car that requires tires every 8K miles under normal city driving conditions??? I never expected or asked them to last 40K miles. If I could get 20K, or maybe 25K of a set I would be extremely happy. So far, my best is 12K on the rear set, 9K on the front set.

No business does "the right thing". But I do work on large company myself and fear of been sued is a powerfull motivator, trust me. Lawyers aren't cheap and these things last a long time. Plus your marketing department hates it. They spend millions making a "brand" name to have it destroyed and pay money to have it done. If doing the right thing is not a business motivator, then let the lawyers handle it.

If you have enough doe to pay $35K for a defective item and just let them keep your money and live with it, well, congratulations. But if we consumers don't stand for our rights, then we will end up buying $100K pieces of cr@p down the line.

 

I never said you have to give up QUALITY to own one. The FACT is...tires, brakes, clutches, suspension etc. will NOT last as long on a sports car compared to a normal passenger car. More agressive parts and settings make things wear out faster.

I work for the Federal Aviation Administration and have no vested interest in Nissans business practices. In fact...look up the 90-91 Acura NSX...it had the same "issue" with the tires and "fixing" it seriously degraded the handling of the car.

 

You obviously didn't read my last post very well...so I'll quote it for you.
I said "The toe setting on the front suspension, which is what causes feathering, is adjusted as such to allow the car to turn in more crisply and quickly. As you noticed..when you pull that toe out, you lose handling."

Excessive negative camber wears tires out MUCH more quickly than feathering. Futhermore, I never said that excessive negative camber caused feathering.

No they wouldn't...but the Z doesn't WEAR OUT tires every 8K miles. In fact...I'm running the same Bridgestone S-03 pole positions on the front of my car that I put on a month after I bought it when I had about 1,200 miles on the car. I went until 15K miles before I got my alignment re-done and my tires had a bit of feathering then...but they are still on my car today...and I now have 37K miles. (about 25K on the S-03s and 12K on snow tires) I've been through 3 sets of rear tires in that time . I don't think you should refer to the feathering as excessive wear as much as you should refer to it as a slightly annoying growl from the front tires especially at low speeds under braking. If the feathering issue on the Z actually WORE OUT the tires so that they were unusuable after 8K miles..then I could see it as an issue..but that's not what's going on here.

Still doesn't mean you'll ever see any kind of fix or reimbursment related to this issue. If it ever gets resolved, you probably won't own the car anymore, so it will be a non issue to you and most other current Z owners at that point.

There's the difference between you and me...you think it's "defective" and I don't. I think the issue was slightly annoying but not a result of a DEFECT.

 

I don't think you should refer to the feathering as excessive wear as much as you should refer to it as a slightly annoying growl from the front tires especially at low speeds under braking. If the feathering issue on the Z actually WORE OUT the tires so that they were unusuable after 8K miles..then I could see it as an issue..but that's not what's going on here.

It IS what is going on for some of us. Ok, they aren't "worn", they are damaged to the point that, at 8500 miles, NISSAN told me that flipping them side to side would not help and that NEW TIRES were required. Nissan said this, not me. And the noise is soo loud at most speeds under 40 that I don't want to drive the car.

And, by definition, if the car is doing something that it was not designed to do, damaging a part that shouldn't be, then it DOES have a defect.

Waste of time. You actually try to use the "sports car" logic to justify DAMAGE to the tires. Please. My choices per Nissan are : replace tires every 8 to 10K miles or loosen the alignment until the tires last longer and you can't drive the car the way you used to. So far I choose to replace the tires and try to reach a compromise between alignment and driveability all out of my pocket. WHen I get tired of it, I guess I will sell it and move on. In the meantime, I can complain because my car has a defect.

 

Nissan told me that installing an intake on my car would make my mass air flow sensor blow up. Honestly though...the only problem with feathering is that it makes noise. It doesn't affect the handling, braking, acceleration or ride...it just makes noise. It's not truely damaging anything more than negative camber does.

So the negative camber that nissan dialed into the rear suspension is a DEFECT too since it causes the tires to wear out prematurely. Yet you don't have a problem with that.

Great...the only way you're going to be happy is by selling the car and getting something that doesn't feather tires. So go for it.

 

I really think there's a great deal of difference between negative caber settings and tire wear and this issue. I also think that the majority of Z owners could live with "a little noise or growl" -but that isn't what some people are experiencing.

Quote slaponte: "And the noise is soo loud at most speeds under 40 that I don't want to drive the car."

I'm willing to bet that there aren't many enthusiasts (of any make and model sports car) that say that. I haven't driven his car, but I can assure you that if the noise was so loud that I didn't want to drive the car, it would be an issue. On the plus side, he could get a monster truck with huge mud tires and enjoy the quiet ride as compared to his sports car.

 

I've driven 10+ different Z's over the past almost 3 years...a couple, including mine had feathering on the front tires. NONE of them IMO made noise in such excess that I wouldn't want to drive the car. That's the key though...what makes one person refuse to drive a car doesn't even bother another person.

So number one..the problem is all about opinion and perception. Number two, not all Z's have the issue.

It's going to be really hard to go forward with a class action lawsuit about tires making too much noise.

 

It has to do with the conditions as well : I drive city a lot (under 50), a lot with my windows down to enjoy the ride. Lots of stoping and going (city driving). Many zones are 35 or 45, so even when you don't stop you travel with this constant "rur-rur-rur-rur" low level growl that gives you a headache after a while. Other people get in my car and go "what the heck is that??!!"...

As mentioned, my rears did wear out early. But evenly, just worn (no meat). So I live with that and don't expect Nissan to do anything about it. I just bought another set and went on with my life. It is hard to see the front tires DAMAGED when they still have meat on them and I could get more miles from them.

It is hard also to blame the tire. The feathering wear leaves bumps on the inside edge up and down. How could the tire design actually make some bumps stay up and others wear down?? Something ont he setup is making the bumps on the inside edge to wear un-evenly. I don't think is the tire. All they did with the new thread is reduce the noise. Is still wears unevenly and DAMAGES the tire over time.

So ok, reduce the Toe so they last longer. Well, they do. My last set seems to be lasting longer. But now, if I get on the hwy, after about 75 to 80 and up, the car feels "loose" on the lane. So I have to give up the sports car to save the tire? Interesting sports car...

No matter what King Tut says, me, a lot of owners, magazines, car experts, all believe this to be a defect. As stated, even Nissan does (indirectly) by their lame effort to HIDE it. They have blamed the "sports car" issue, the tires, the drivers, everybody. I can understand them to use camber to settle the car with a side effect of wear. This is not "wear". This is DAMAGE. A simple look at the tire makes it clear it is NOT normal.

When I get new tires on I can't wait to get in my car. I drive it everywhere, windows down, radio off to hear it and feel it on the road. I go to cruises with the club, etc. When the noise starts I know what is coming up.

When I get up in the morning, consider my choice, and CHOOSE to drive my Expedition to work, I know the Z needs new tires...