Track Vs. Touring performance differences
12-02-2002, 04:46 AM
#21
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 318
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Jrl, how the the weight issue lost? I gave you a lesson onNissan 350Z curb weights and you still had doubts. Then, Gendo Ikari reaffirmed my statistics. Just do yourself a favor and read the forums and try to learn a little bit about the car before you start acting like you are a Nissan engineer.
12-02-2002, 05:12 AM
#22
Guest
Posts: n/a
Last time and I'm done.
I do'nt care about what Nissan publishes what their respective weights are. In the real world, with all the added stuff, the weight will be more. And,my friend, manufactures are notorious about embellishing their stats for what ever purpose they with to acheive. I refuse to believe that the track is only 22 lbs lighter.
I do'nt care about what Nissan publishes what their respective weights are. In the real world, with all the added stuff, the weight will be more. And,my friend, manufactures are notorious about embellishing their stats for what ever purpose they with to acheive. I refuse to believe that the track is only 22 lbs lighter.
12-02-2002, 12:22 PM
#24
Guest
Posts: n/a
I'll post to the original question. Jrl is right on this item, it is not that uncommon to have .3 sec variation in runs especially if you are inexperienced with the car. Besides items that affect the car's performance noted above, launch technique, and shift points make a world of difference in a run, and if this was the first day these guys drove a Z, it's no wonder the touring was slower.
Also, the Brembo's are a larger diameter rotor, which I have read (sorry, couldn't find the source again) weigh more than the stock breaks. I doubt that there is a significant unsprung weight diff between the models. The Rays with Brembo's look sooo much better though.
If you read different mags, there will be at least that much difference in times for the SAME model. Get yours and take it to a track, compare against others. Thats the only way to be sure!
Also, the Brembo's are a larger diameter rotor, which I have read (sorry, couldn't find the source again) weigh more than the stock breaks. I doubt that there is a significant unsprung weight diff between the models. The Rays with Brembo's look sooo much better though.
If you read different mags, there will be at least that much difference in times for the SAME model. Get yours and take it to a track, compare against others. Thats the only way to be sure!
12-02-2002, 12:41 PM
#25
Registered User
to Turcoupe...
"Like I said, they are cleraly the best 2 models and are both fast and have awesome looks."
I disagree... it's safe to say the Z, in general is a truly awesome car compared to others, but I think the Performance model is clearly the best model!
I basically have a Track minus Brembos and Rays wheels (oh yeah, lets not forget the every important diffuser
). I deliberately ordered Performance figuring I can add better breaks later (maybe something better than a Brembo upgrade even) and if I want fancy light weight wheels, I'd pick out something I want, not the factory Rays.
Could do the same thing with Touring except I wanted to save that little bit of weight and didn't want leather. Had leather... gets hot in the summer down south.
to jrl...
If the comparisons were between other cars and the Z, I might agree with you Nissan "embellishing their stats"... I emphasize might agree. However, they have nothing to gain by embellishing stats against their own models. Wake up a smell the facts.
"Like I said, they are cleraly the best 2 models and are both fast and have awesome looks."
I disagree... it's safe to say the Z, in general is a truly awesome car compared to others, but I think the Performance model is clearly the best model!
I basically have a Track minus Brembos and Rays wheels (oh yeah, lets not forget the every important diffuser
). I deliberately ordered Performance figuring I can add better breaks later (maybe something better than a Brembo upgrade even) and if I want fancy light weight wheels, I'd pick out something I want, not the factory Rays.Could do the same thing with Touring except I wanted to save that little bit of weight and didn't want leather. Had leather... gets hot in the summer down south.
to jrl...
If the comparisons were between other cars and the Z, I might agree with you Nissan "embellishing their stats"... I emphasize might agree. However, they have nothing to gain by embellishing stats against their own models. Wake up a smell the facts.
12-03-2002, 05:53 AM
#26
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 318
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Uhhhhh, using that logic I basically have a track also, minu the diffuser, brembos, and rays. My touring is a 6MT and has everything the Performance model has...(ask JRL to lend you the brochure after he is done looking at it). Oh, I also have a Mclaren F1 minus the engine, body, wheels and frame. 
12-03-2002, 08:29 AM
#28
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Woodbridge, VA
Posts: 103
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
JRL you're not helping the situation any by your obvious attacks at another member either. Your "nemesis" is right about the weights, he countered with simple numbers from nissan. But you continued to tell him they were wrong even others helped back him up with facts. Mcduck is right, nissan might embelish numbers in their favor, but they wouldnt do so with weights on the same model car.. if they did, they would exxagerate it to look like a bigger difference so you'd buy the track.. not the other way around. Sure, a million and one things can factor into a time around a track, but the only thing Tucroupe was trying to tell you was that the weight difference is too small in this case to make any difference, yet you still tried to drag it on. We're all Z fans here, there is no reason to start board-warrioring.
The Z in general is a driver's car, no matter what the options are. Some people want the leather, some people want the heated seats or the bose.. others would rather have some cool rims with brembos and cloth. It's personal preference. I like the Z, I ordered an enthusiast, it weighs less than both the touring and the track, but has much less options. The weight isn't important though, I just planned on adding an aftermarket stereo, aftermarket rims, etc. So I didnt want to spend the money to pay for those from nissan when I wouldnt use them. It's my preference, which differs from other people. I like all the models, I like all the colors.. I'm just a Z fan all around.
The Z in general is a driver's car, no matter what the options are. Some people want the leather, some people want the heated seats or the bose.. others would rather have some cool rims with brembos and cloth. It's personal preference. I like the Z, I ordered an enthusiast, it weighs less than both the touring and the track, but has much less options. The weight isn't important though, I just planned on adding an aftermarket stereo, aftermarket rims, etc. So I didnt want to spend the money to pay for those from nissan when I wouldnt use them. It's my preference, which differs from other people. I like all the models, I like all the colors.. I'm just a Z fan all around.
Last edited by hokie350; 12-03-2002 at 08:33 AM.
12-03-2002, 08:39 AM
#29
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Boston
Posts: 97
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
FYI... .3 sec is quite a lot and I see two explanations:
1) driver difference
2) weight
Now I know you mentioned 22lbs difference but that's silly because each wheel is like 15lbs difference between the track and touring models. Now when you take rotational weight into account that comes out to much more. I'm not sure what the formula is but someone did a calculation once and the rotational weight for all the wheels turned out to be around 80lbs
So that coupled with the other weight difference is considerable.
I still chose the touring because of the leather seats and other goodies
1) driver difference
2) weight
Now I know you mentioned 22lbs difference but that's silly because each wheel is like 15lbs difference between the track and touring models. Now when you take rotational weight into account that comes out to much more. I'm not sure what the formula is but someone did a calculation once and the rotational weight for all the wheels turned out to be around 80lbs
So that coupled with the other weight difference is considerable.
I still chose the touring because of the leather seats and other goodies
12-03-2002, 08:48 AM
#30
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Boston
Posts: 97
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by Gendo Ikari
Brembos are very heavy...that somewhat offsets the weight loss from the Track wheels. These are the official curb weight #s:
Base: 3188
Enthusiast 6MT: 3197
Enthusiast 5AT: 3210
Performance: 3217
Touring 6MT: 3247
Touring 5AT: 3239
Track: 3225
Brembos are very heavy...that somewhat offsets the weight loss from the Track wheels. These are the official curb weight #s:
Base: 3188
Enthusiast 6MT: 3197
Enthusiast 5AT: 3210
Performance: 3217
Touring 6MT: 3247
Touring 5AT: 3239
Track: 3225
12-03-2002, 09:31 AM
#31
Guest
Posts: n/a
I agree, let's stop all the silly bickering but I do have a question for anyone here.
This has nothing to with the difference in accel times, that was answered , I think, to everyone's satisfaction.
How can there be only 22 lbs difference in these two cars?
Really, think about it.
I stated the obvious and the not so obvoius.
I know how side and top air bags are constructed.
I saw a Mercedes wreck and I've got to tell you that there is a lot that goes into the construction of these items. Sub woofers and amplifiers weigh a bit and the wheel difference alone must be a 5 to 7 lbs. a wheel.
I'm not starting an argument with anyone here except Nissan.
I believe it's IMPOSSIBLE to just have a 22 lb. difference. Please, someone, really prove me wrong.
JRL
This has nothing to with the difference in accel times, that was answered , I think, to everyone's satisfaction.
How can there be only 22 lbs difference in these two cars?
Really, think about it.
I stated the obvious and the not so obvoius.
I know how side and top air bags are constructed.
I saw a Mercedes wreck and I've got to tell you that there is a lot that goes into the construction of these items. Sub woofers and amplifiers weigh a bit and the wheel difference alone must be a 5 to 7 lbs. a wheel.
I'm not starting an argument with anyone here except Nissan.
I believe it's IMPOSSIBLE to just have a 22 lb. difference. Please, someone, really prove me wrong.
JRL
12-03-2002, 09:32 AM
#32
Charter Member #67
Join Date: May 2002
Location: FL
Posts: 327
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
One of the biggest performance differences between the Track and Touring is 100-0 ten times in a row.
Track will do it probably with very minimal brake fade.
Touring - ??? anybody want to try?
Track will do it probably with very minimal brake fade.
Touring - ??? anybody want to try?
12-03-2002, 09:37 AM
#33
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 1,025
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by jrl
How can there be only 22 lbs difference in these two cars?
I know how side and top air bags are constructed.
I saw a Mercedes wreck and I've got to tell you that there is a lot that goes into the construction of these items.
How can there be only 22 lbs difference in these two cars?
I know how side and top air bags are constructed.
I saw a Mercedes wreck and I've got to tell you that there is a lot that goes into the construction of these items.
12-03-2002, 09:47 AM
#34
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 237
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well if it's Canada where talking about the Touring only comes in Auto, the Performance is the lowest model we get, and the Track is the third and final choice in the 350 family. So if you guys want to bicker be my guest but just always remember, you got way more to choose from, for a lot less.
Which BTW always confuses me because we always see thousands of cars destined for the US in our ports, all the models and colors we don't get here, pass through our ports on their way to NE and NW US. You'd figure they'd offer the exact same stuff but not gonna happen. Looks like I'll just have to break in and steal one.
Which BTW always confuses me because we always see thousands of cars destined for the US in our ports, all the models and colors we don't get here, pass through our ports on their way to NE and NW US. You'd figure they'd offer the exact same stuff but not gonna happen. Looks like I'll just have to break in and steal one.
12-03-2002, 01:22 PM
#36
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There is only 59 lbs. difference between the lightest model and the heaviest! That's less than 2% of the lightest model's weight. That's less than a half a tank of gas. How more insignificant could the weight difference be
12-03-2002, 01:36 PM
#37
Registered User
Just to add a little fire to the debate. Guys, check your vehicle registration paper and tell me how much your car weighs. I looked at mine and it says 3330 lbs! That's ~ 100 more lbs than Nissan's official curb weight for the Track!
Now this could just mean the Track model fell into the <3500 lbs category for registration purposes, or that is my actual vehicular weight. It this were true, than the official curb weight that Nissan quoted are not correct!
Any thoughts?
Now this could just mean the Track model fell into the <3500 lbs category for registration purposes, or that is my actual vehicular weight. It this were true, than the official curb weight that Nissan quoted are not correct!
Any thoughts?
12-03-2002, 01:57 PM
#38
people have put their cars on corner scales and found they weight under what nissan says, which is to be expected since they weigh it with full tanks, while people do so with quarter tanks.
8lbs a gallon, thats 15gallons*8=120lbs lost in gas.
anyway, as for 22lbs difference, who knows, I dont remember there being a sure fire leather is heavier than cloth, I would expect some wieght from the heater and power seats. but then again lets not forget aero package on the track. also wider tires and rims, I think the weight loss is maybe 5lbs at best per tire. if you thought the rays on the track were super duper light weight rims, you were mistaken; yes they are light, about 18lbs a rim, but you can find rims around 15.
8lbs a gallon, thats 15gallons*8=120lbs lost in gas.
anyway, as for 22lbs difference, who knows, I dont remember there being a sure fire leather is heavier than cloth, I would expect some wieght from the heater and power seats. but then again lets not forget aero package on the track. also wider tires and rims, I think the weight loss is maybe 5lbs at best per tire. if you thought the rays on the track were super duper light weight rims, you were mistaken; yes they are light, about 18lbs a rim, but you can find rims around 15.
12-04-2002, 06:42 AM
#39
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Boston
Posts: 97
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by ares
people have put their cars on corner scales and found they weight under what nissan says, which is to be expected since they weigh it with full tanks, while people do so with quarter tanks.
8lbs a gallon, thats 15gallons*8=120lbs lost in gas.
anyway, as for 22lbs difference, who knows, I dont remember there being a sure fire leather is heavier than cloth, I would expect some wieght from the heater and power seats. but then again lets not forget aero package on the track. also wider tires and rims, I think the weight loss is maybe 5lbs at best per tire. if you thought the rays on the track were super duper light weight rims, you were mistaken; yes they are light, about 18lbs a rim, but you can find rims around 15.
people have put their cars on corner scales and found they weight under what nissan says, which is to be expected since they weigh it with full tanks, while people do so with quarter tanks.
8lbs a gallon, thats 15gallons*8=120lbs lost in gas.
anyway, as for 22lbs difference, who knows, I dont remember there being a sure fire leather is heavier than cloth, I would expect some wieght from the heater and power seats. but then again lets not forget aero package on the track. also wider tires and rims, I think the weight loss is maybe 5lbs at best per tire. if you thought the rays on the track were super duper light weight rims, you were mistaken; yes they are light, about 18lbs a rim, but you can find rims around 15.
When you consider the rotational weight i bet it's more than 100 lbs for the car during acceleration