Like I said, I can't even believe there is a comparison being made...

 

Can you video tape the race?

And make sure someone in the Tacoma is videotaping.

I'd hate to see a passenger in the Z have to stick their head out the window, after 100mph, to keep taping the Tacoma as it disappears into oblivion.

 

The Z will take over the Tacoma easily. The only concern would be is snow or off road, than I would give all hands down to the Tacoma. My only concern if racing a pick-up truck would be the Ford Lighting SVT. That truck is amazing!

 

Wow, I posted this link quite a while ago.

Bottom line in torque/ hp debate is.

"It is better to make torque at higher RPM than low RPM, because you can take advantage of *gearing*."

hp=((torque)(rpm))/5252

Without proper gearing you will not get the necessary velocity.

Using the equation above. You can have an obscene amount of torque which will give you high hp but if your rpm are low you will not get any velocity.

Let's say that your vehicle is putting out 26,000,000 ft-lbs @ 12 RPMS, your hp would be 59,406 hp. Those numbers look outstanding but lets say for each RPM your engine spins your wheels spin one RPM. 12 RPMS on 17" wheels is about 1 mph. You would have instaneous acceleration to 1 mph and top out in velocity. By using gearing you can adjust RPM thus adjusting the velocity. Of couse this is very basic because there are other factors that can affect torque, hp and velocity. But, this is the gist of it.

 

I say go out and spank his monkey ***....lmao

 

I heard this expression once. Horsepower sells cars, torque wins races. In this case though, the weight difference and especially the gearing is going to lead to the truck going down. Plus, it's not like he has 100 lb/ft more torque than you.

 

dude put money down... heck i would take a stock civic over due the weight

 

hp will tell you how fast you hit the brick wall...

tq will tell you how far through it you'll go

 

Wow, that would make one hell of a bulldozer/snow plow! Nothing would stop that puppy (except lack of traction).

Also what you're saying only applies for gear ratio = 1 right? Like if your gear ratio is 0.5 you could go 2mph etc?

 

Try convincing Juan Pablo he wins with max torque and not max HP.

 

Now were mixing apples and oranges. The wall is a factor of mass and velocity but I get it. Mass to torque as velocity is to HP. I like it.

 

If you were to survive the g-forces that were generated by the 0-1 mph sprint. You could plow your way through just about anything.

If you had a gear ratio change of 0.5, I don't think it would be a linear change. There is some formula to calculate the various changes but, I don't remember what it is. There would be some type of change. In the example you used, 0.5 would be a "taller gear ratio" which would have the opposite effect of what you were thinking of. A 1.5 gear ratio would be a "shorter gear ratio" and would produce an affect like you were thinking.

http://www.bodydynamicsracing.com/gearing.htm

http://www.datsuns.com/Tech/tech_dept.htm

Ideally, for performance driving you want to use gearing to keep the engine in its optimum torque band regardless of your vehicle's velocity.

 

Torque really does matter, but.....The length of this thread wore me out, so someone probably already made this point, but horsepower and torque aren't constants. To say that one car has X HP and Y torque, and another car has XX HP and YY torque doesn't tell the whole story. Those values are each peak values at a given RPM value. Both engines have 0 HP and 0 torque at 0 RPM. You really need to see the power curves for each engine to see how the HP and torque are distributed over the RPM band. If one engine has more HP (and therefore torque) at lower RPMs, but the other engine passes it in power at the upper end of the RPM band, then the first engine is still going to be better off the line, everything else being equal. Just to say that the Tacoma has more torque doesn't mean anything if you have to get way up in the RPM band to use it. You can't get to the RPM value that has the peak torque from a stop without going through the low end. Knowing at what RPM the peak HP and peak torque are for each engine can give you a clue about who has the better low end torque, but the curves would tell the whole story. So, you just can't go by peak numbers. And then there's still that major weight to HP issue in favor of the Z. If the Tacoma did have the better low end torque, it would still have to overcome the weight disadvantage. Eventually other things would come into play such as gearing, traction, etc.

 

first i have to say your co-workers are morons! some peoples kids, buy 'em books, take 'em to school, and still stupid!!

i have asked many engine builders and read articles on the relationship between tq and hp. they are different and the same at the same time. hp is more of a constant holding force with torque being the ability to reach that hp figure. as for the idea of less cylinders = more torque could not be less true. more cubic inches will ALWAYS net more torque no matter what!! more torque is to be had by having a longer stroke in relationship to the bore (better leverage on the crank to spin it) but a bigger bore in relationship to the stroke will result in a torque drop but boost mid to upper hp numbers. that example is for exact cubic inch motors in the same tune. torque is a hard number to easily boost without doing alot of homework, but hp increases are pretty easy to get. reason being, the larger cams, heads, exhaust all help the motor breath better at high rpm's for hp, but you lose a bit of velocity at lower rpm's which will affect the torque.
bottom line, 2 motors pushing the same hp but one has more torque, the latter will win (in the same car) but the motor having more hp and less torque compared to a motor with more torque and less hp (in the same car) hp will be the one humping the trophy girl that night my friends, lol. unless they are pulling trailers off idle!!!

 

I don't think it would be a linear change.


gears will always be a linear calculation, no matter what it is for or in.

 

tell him that a 18-wheeler or a fire truck will out run his Tacoma

 

Jason, try this. Torque is twisting force without motion. Like a torque wrench after the bolt stops turning. You can still apply torque but you don't produce HP until something moves. A very small amout of HP would be generated for the nut to tighten.

MEI, race on HP drive on torque. Car with more torque will feel faster because you don't have to high rev the motor to get HP. I test drove the s2000, didn't like it enough to ask questions but if the z accelerates faster it is because of more HP. If the s2000 is faster it's because it's lighter or geared lower to get the revs up faster.

 

You're right. I should have been more clear on my statement. Changing the gearing on a particular engine might affect the output torque curve on the engine so that it no longer matches the original torque curve thus making a linear comparison from the original curve to the new curve sometimes not possible.

 

Correction - 5.3 seconds
http://motortrend.com/roadtests/coup...ee/index7.html

 

LOL

Well it seems like he's backing out on the race now xP
I've read some great comments/info in the replies, thanks guys for the info!