350z better than m3 on track
10-20-2005, 11:05 AM
#21
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Originally Posted by zland
They are not equal, try buying a M3 for the same price as a Z 
Hence, I said track
10-20-2005, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by trojanZ
This is some info for those of you discussing whether the 350z or m3 is faster. The m3 is clearly faster than a 350z on the straightling. I think we all know that. if you think otherwise; you're probably in denial. As far as putting both cars on the track, the 350z out-performs the m3.
http://www.roadandtrack.com/article....article_id=469
here is an article on the road and track website that compares a track 350z to an smg m3, a 911 targa and a c5 corvette. The 350z is the second fastest car from the four, only being beaten by the vette. What can we learn from this: the 350z outhandles the m3. 287hp v. 333. the only other thing that can account for a the 350z getting a better lap time is handling. Read that article if you already haven't. it's interesting. and make sure to look at the last page of the article, it's got all the lap times and other specs.
http://www.roadandtrack.com/article....article_id=469
here is an article on the road and track website that compares a track 350z to an smg m3, a 911 targa and a c5 corvette. The 350z is the second fastest car from the four, only being beaten by the vette. What can we learn from this: the 350z outhandles the m3. 287hp v. 333. the only other thing that can account for a the 350z getting a better lap time is handling. Read that article if you already haven't. it's interesting. and make sure to look at the last page of the article, it's got all the lap times and other specs.
10-20-2005, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Armitage
I have the Best Motoring DVD where four professional drivers in a bone-stock 350z, M3, Boxster, and S2k square off.
The Z beats them all.
In the hands of a good driver, the Z is quite a capable car.
The Z beats them all.
In the hands of a good driver, the Z is quite a capable car.
10-20-2005, 07:05 PM
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THe Z is an Amazing car that offers allot for the money including feel, speed, looks etc.. But an M3 is an M3. Im sure most of the people here would trade their stock 350 Z for a Stock E46 M3 anyday if they had the chance of an even trade. The M3 offers more. I have experience with both.
10-20-2005, 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by ZlleH
Man, you just can't win around here.
If some guy posted this thread claiming in his experience with M3 on the track, that the Z handles better and is faster on the track. People will flame him for not offering facts and proof and just his personal experiences. Flaming him that he is bias, etc.
But if some guy comes here posting a link from an independent test on a track between the two cars with drivers who do this for a living and then give a huge page spread on their research and testing. People will come and flame him for not having personal experiences on the track.
It's like you can't win no matter what you do around here.
If some guy posted this thread claiming in his experience with M3 on the track, that the Z handles better and is faster on the track. People will flame him for not offering facts and proof and just his personal experiences. Flaming him that he is bias, etc.
But if some guy comes here posting a link from an independent test on a track between the two cars with drivers who do this for a living and then give a huge page spread on their research and testing. People will come and flame him for not having personal experiences on the track.
It's like you can't win no matter what you do around here.
10-20-2005, 08:40 PM
#28
Sure I'd take the M3 in this situation... then I'd sell the M3, buy my Z back and put in a twin turbo bulit engine in the Z with the profit. I'd rather have the look of the Z then the look of the M3. But that's my taste. Some people like the way the M3 looks. Just not my taste.
I'd rather buy a nice looking car (in my eyes) and put money into making it faster. Example, look at the 2004 STI, $55K, 320hp/310tq, but I would never buy it because I couldn't stand to be caught driving it.
I'd rather buy a nice looking car (in my eyes) and put money into making it faster. Example, look at the 2004 STI, $55K, 320hp/310tq, but I would never buy it because I couldn't stand to be caught driving it.
Originally Posted by DocCNader
THe Z is an Amazing car that offers allot for the money including feel, speed, looks etc.. But an M3 is an M3. Im sure most of the people here would trade their stock 350 Z for a Stock E46 M3 anyday if they had the chance of an even trade. The M3 offers more. I have experience with both.
10-20-2005, 08:50 PM
#29
I guess no one else thought of the fact that every track is different and id liek to see which track this M3 lost at. Certain cars are better at certain tracks. I still think the M3 is faster overall but those numbers are impressive. Never said the Z wasnt badass.
10-20-2005, 08:50 PM
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Originally Posted by ZlleH
Sure I'd take the M3 in this situation... then I'd sell the M3, buy my Z back and put in a twin turbo bulit engine in the Z with the profit. I'd rather have the look of the Z then the look of the M3. But that's my taste. Some people like the way the M3 looks. Just not my taste.
I'd rather buy a nice looking car (in my eyes) and put money into making it faster. Example, look at the 2004 STI, $55K, 320hp/310tq, but I would never buy it because I couldn't stand to be caught driving it.
I'd rather buy a nice looking car (in my eyes) and put money into making it faster. Example, look at the 2004 STI, $55K, 320hp/310tq, but I would never buy it because I couldn't stand to be caught driving it.
same here....as a matter of fact.....didn't the Subaru WRX STI recently made the top ten ugliest cars list?
10-20-2005, 10:44 PM
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This article is great... I used to be an e46 328i owner, and all i've ever heard from fellow BMW drivers is, "We'll take them in the twisties". I believe the same was said about the 350z when it first came out, and even now...
I have to admit, the 350z is a pretty good handler, but for normal driving, the e46 feels much more responsive/confident than the Z.... which feels more responsive/confident when pushed harder.
I dont get why a lot of members on the board put the e46 M3 up on a pedestal... its not THAT great. It handles worse than the e36 M3, has ****ty brakes, is really hard to mod/tune (like most bimmers)...
i think...
unskilled drivers in 350z and M3 = M3 winning.
skilled drivers in 350z and M3 = drivers race.
Upper hand --- M3...
I have to admit, the 350z is a pretty good handler, but for normal driving, the e46 feels much more responsive/confident than the Z.... which feels more responsive/confident when pushed harder.
I dont get why a lot of members on the board put the e46 M3 up on a pedestal... its not THAT great. It handles worse than the e36 M3, has ****ty brakes, is really hard to mod/tune (like most bimmers)...
i think...
unskilled drivers in 350z and M3 = M3 winning.
skilled drivers in 350z and M3 = drivers race.
Upper hand --- M3...
10-21-2005, 12:55 AM
#33
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Stats. I hate 'em.
At the end of the day, I'd still pick the Z over the E46 M3.
At the end of the day, I'd still pick the Z over the 400+ hp MONSTER E90 M3 that's set to be unleashed in 2007.
At the end of the day, the Z is still more...me.
At the end of the day, I'd still pick the Z over the E46 M3.
At the end of the day, I'd still pick the Z over the 400+ hp MONSTER E90 M3 that's set to be unleashed in 2007.
At the end of the day, the Z is still more...me.
10-21-2005, 06:37 AM
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The M3 is more balanced and has more power out of the box. It also feels as light (or heavy depending on who you talk to) as my old Z. On top of that, you get backseats, a larger trunk, and a more sumptuous interior.
And it's not just me that has these thoughts. Fellow track ***** droidekaus (the guy that started the tire feathering thread) echoes the same sentiments although the STi is more his style.
I've owned Z's for 9 years and the M3 is one car I don't need to mod. I do miss the Z whenever I see a Track model or a shiny Chrome Silver example, but I have no regrets moving to the M3.
///Michael.
And it's not just me that has these thoughts. Fellow track ***** droidekaus (the guy that started the tire feathering thread) echoes the same sentiments although the STi is more his style.
I've owned Z's for 9 years and the M3 is one car I don't need to mod. I do miss the Z whenever I see a Track model or a shiny Chrome Silver example, but I have no regrets moving to the M3.
///Michael.
10-21-2005, 06:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Armitage
I have the Best Motoring DVD where four professional drivers in a bone-stock 350z, M3, Boxster, and S2k square off.
The Z beats them all.
In the hands of a good driver, the Z is quite a capable car.
The Z beats them all.
In the hands of a good driver, the Z is quite a capable car.
10-21-2005, 07:01 AM
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There is one thing that the Z is, and the M3 will never be.
A sports cars.
The M3 is nice, and fast, but there is something about being in a purpose built 2 seater.
I felt the same way when I had my FD. It's just different.
A sports cars.
The M3 is nice, and fast, but there is something about being in a purpose built 2 seater.
I felt the same way when I had my FD. It's just different.
10-21-2005, 07:11 AM
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Anyone criticizing the testing done in Road and Track should know this. First the testing was done a Buttonwillow which has a good balance of long straights and slow/med/fast corners. Second, I know Kim Wolfkill (who wrote the article) and he is a very good driver, has a lot of racing experience (has done the Daytona 24hrs several times, in Porsche 911RSR's, and has raced in SCCA World Challenge, American Lemans and GrandAm) so his driving ability should not be in question.
As someone who drives E46 M3s on almost a daily basis, and who has raced a E36 M3 in the past and currently races a 350Z I think I can give a fair assesment of both cars. Stock to Stock, their performance is very close.
The E46 M3 suffers from poor brakes (the front brakes are no bigger than those on the E36 M3 and it weights aprox 350lbs more!), heavy weight and severe understeer. Its strenghts against the 350Z is that it is definately faster in a straight line.
The 350 also suffers from understeer but not as bad as the M3, it definately lacks the power of the M3 (but a T/S reflash makes a huge difference in power delivery and engine flexibility), the brakes have crappy ABS in comparison to the M3 but overall stopping power is good.
Race car to Racecar they are both very close. In Touring 2 both cars are very similar in spec, however the M3 does weight a little more and the 350Z is allowed shocks, springs and swaybars whereas the M3 is only allowed shocks. The M3 will pull the 350Z on long straights, but not by a lot. The 350Z definately will outhandle the M3 in the corners. Braking is comparable in both cars, distances are similar but the M3 with its better ABS allows you to trail brake deap into a corner, whereas the 350Z with its crappy ABS only likes to brake in a straight line unless the pavement is billiard table smooth.
Personally, IMHO, I love the looks of the M3 and think its a great car, but for $50k+ I think it is overpriced (in comparision to what else is out there under $50k, EVO, STI, 350Z, Lotus Elise, C7 Corvette), also my biggest complaint about the car is that it is severely OVERWEIGHT. If it was 300lbs lighter my opinion would be completely different.
As someone who drives E46 M3s on almost a daily basis, and who has raced a E36 M3 in the past and currently races a 350Z I think I can give a fair assesment of both cars. Stock to Stock, their performance is very close.
The E46 M3 suffers from poor brakes (the front brakes are no bigger than those on the E36 M3 and it weights aprox 350lbs more!), heavy weight and severe understeer. Its strenghts against the 350Z is that it is definately faster in a straight line.
The 350 also suffers from understeer but not as bad as the M3, it definately lacks the power of the M3 (but a T/S reflash makes a huge difference in power delivery and engine flexibility), the brakes have crappy ABS in comparison to the M3 but overall stopping power is good.
Race car to Racecar they are both very close. In Touring 2 both cars are very similar in spec, however the M3 does weight a little more and the 350Z is allowed shocks, springs and swaybars whereas the M3 is only allowed shocks. The M3 will pull the 350Z on long straights, but not by a lot. The 350Z definately will outhandle the M3 in the corners. Braking is comparable in both cars, distances are similar but the M3 with its better ABS allows you to trail brake deap into a corner, whereas the 350Z with its crappy ABS only likes to brake in a straight line unless the pavement is billiard table smooth.
Personally, IMHO, I love the looks of the M3 and think its a great car, but for $50k+ I think it is overpriced (in comparision to what else is out there under $50k, EVO, STI, 350Z, Lotus Elise, C7 Corvette), also my biggest complaint about the car is that it is severely OVERWEIGHT. If it was 300lbs lighter my opinion would be completely different.
10-21-2005, 07:22 AM
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well one thing i think we can all agree on is that the Z sounds a HELL of a lot better than the M3 stock because if you like the stock raspy-ness of the e46 m3 over the sweet sound of the Z, you need some serious help.
derek
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10-21-2005, 08:02 AM
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Originally Posted by lukesnyder
The Z barely edged out the M3.. but I believe they are pretty much equal on a track but not drag racing. Stock to Stock.
10-21-2005, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by DJ SMITTY
well one thing i think we can all agree on is that the Z sounds a HELL of a lot better than the M3 stock because if you like the stock raspy-ness of the e46 m3 over the sweet sound of the Z, you need some serious help.
derek
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I thought I was the only one that felt that way....The first time I raced one on the highway I couldnt believe my ears...Talk about ricy sounding...If I owned one it would not leave the dealership without an aftermarket exhaust...The Z & G own the M3 in that aspect...I turn off my music just to hear the Z's exhaust from time to time...Wouldnt dream of doing that in the E46 M3...