What I mean by jack of all trades and the master of none is:
it's a well rounded sports car. It has OK power, OK handling, 6spd, an OK interior, etc, etc, but it doesn't lead the pack in any category. There are lighter cars, more powerfull cars, faster cars, better handling cars, etc.

Yes, but to get a car that is lighter and faster and better handling and better looking, you will have to spend significantly more money.

And yes, I did drive the car off the lot thinking it isn't all that fast, but the fact that it looked good, had a 6spd, RWD, was a two seater, had some heritage, and was in the price range I was willing to pay were a lot of the reason behind the purchase. The longer I owned the car, the more I began to realize how much the car was lacking.

Funny, the longer I owned the car, the more I liked it. People will always want to mod their cars. Doesn't mean anything is lacking. There is just this tendency to always want more/different.

That's not to say I don't like the car, but just that it needs a little help reaching it's potential.

A cars "potential" has to do with one thing and one thing alone.....MONEY. A Civic DX has a lot of potential if you have a spare $60,000 sitting around.

Let's face it, any car can be made into anything with enough money put into it. The only meaningful comparisons have to factor in cost and reliability. For under $40,000, you can't buy a better sports car.

Finally, having owned a modded car previously with monstrous acceleration (twin turbo motor with 25lbs boost and all-wheel drive) I can tell you that such a car is simply too fast for the street. It gains velocity so fast that you are moving so much faster than 98% of the traffic around you, that the car is outright dangerous for a public roadway. The Z is the perfect street sports car. And....if I wanted a $90,000 car, I would have bought an M5.

 

i think if u strip all plastic, a/c, radio everything out u can make a pretty decent sized difference...
stripping off those doesnt cost much money
i think weight wise... the Z def have room to improve on...
with about 10 grand u can get a fairly light Z
...
2grand (SSR 17s+ tires)
2grand (light weight CF seats)
2grand (ti exhaust)
4grand (light weight dry carbon parts)
that should set you at around 2900 at most including strip interior, no spare, no carpets..
then ur car can take on some serious competition

 

People who don't know what "fast" feels like don't know when they are going "fast" in a "fast" car. I think "fast" is referring to acceleration, and the Z has plenty of it. The first time I drove the Z climbing onto the freeway (on a test drive right before I bought it) I was thinking like my little 2003 EP3. I could leave that Honda in 3rd gear and take it all the way to redline to feel like I was accelerating "fast." With the Z, I did the same thing, then shifted into 4th, and by the time I looked down at the tach, I was doing 105mph. Didn't feel fast because I didn't know what fast felt like. Now that I have been driving my Z for a year, I get back into a Honda that I remember as feeling "fast" and now it feels slow.
People who don't know what "fast" feels like wouldn't recognize it if it kicked them in the @$$.

 

heh...small world man....i traded in my 04 A4 Goat a month ago for an 03 track....i agree completely...the gto threw you back in your seat but the z is a real sports car......looks, handling, etc...

 

Your arguements are valid, however the potential of a civic compared to the potential of the Z is a little extreme. The aftermarkets may be close in terms of companies that have products. What sets the Z above most others IMO is APS. IMO, no other aftermarket company compares to them. The fact that I can get, what is IMO, a better than oem quality TT setup for my Z that puts me at 400+whp out of box for around $7500 = great potential to me.

 

That's a broad statement considering the Cosworth, AMG (until Recently when they were brought into MB), Calloway, Dinan, Konsigg, Hennessy, etc.

 

Maybe a bit more broad than I intended, yet most the companies that you named have prices that equate to purchasing another vehicle.

Car and driver just had the hennessy TT ram in last months issue. That setup was like 30K!

 

Speaking of the APS TT review. Anybody knows how the ST kit faired out?

 

from my readings, the ST is a good setup, but kind of finicky. Home installers were having issues getting the actuators/wastegates to work properly. they were having issues with boost tapering; loosing too much boost towards redline. APS has also revised the check valve, supposedly replacing it with a new electronic solenoid which connects directly to the scavenge pump.

Beyond this, the kit seems to be great from those that I have talked to in person. I see the biggest drawback of the kit being the way it feeds into stock exhaust. APS has a tappered adapter to match up with the stock b-pipe. The adapter IMO really looks like it will restrict the exhaust, not that that means much if you are pairing the ST with stock exhaust. It works with the APS ST exhaust, which is probably the best exhaust for this kit, but I know, not everyone wants to run that. Beyond that, you would need custom exhaust work for it to match up with an exhaust like borla or injen.

In terms of performance, I have not ridden in a ST car, but spoken to a couple ST owners how it compared to the TT. In short, they basically said, it feels similar, just more lag.

 

^^^ thanks alot Zivman. Im considering in doing the ST conversion once i find a place that installs the kit. Who knows, i might go to TT instead.

 

I just want to add that manufacturers are well aware of "the feeling of speed" and can do lots of tricks to make you feel like you're accelerating hard.

Automatics have a throttle tip in, which is the minimum amount of throttle applied off idle. To make it feel faster they use a higher throttle percentage making the car lunge off the line.

Rear end squat– I think Pontiac did this a lot, they'd set the suspension with less anti-squat so under acceleration the rear end had lots of downward movement greatly exaggerating the Gs off the line and "throwing" you back in the seat.

There are lots of tricks to make you think you're going faster than you are...and they use them.


If at any point you feel like the Z is "slow" drive another car for a week and go back.

 

I wonder if the Lotus Elise feels fast...

190 hp... but can out drag our cars easily.. =O

 

I've always thought my car was quick and fun to drive, but I had never been in the passenger seat until about a month ago, and holy crap!!!!!! Not knowing when the shifts were coming and not being able to compensate for the cars moves and stuff, it felt like it was a ROCKET!!!!!!!! Oh man!!!! So now I need to get a ride every now and then!!! haha

 

I bet it does - What does that car weigh? Like 1200 lbs.

Seriously though, HP hardly tells the whole story in terms of performance or the feel of the car.

The new IS350 with 306 BHP has identical 0-60 times as the BMW 330i that has a meare 255 bhp

 

I'm going to be honest with you guys my Z doesn't feel all that fast....but maybe that's because my other car is an IHRA top sportsman car, that runs 7.00's at 198 in the 1/4 and 4.50's in the 1/8 with 1.03 60ft's. After driving something like that nothing is going to feel fast, but i still love my Z.......

 

Go drive an LS1 F-body. You will swear the thing is twice as fast as the Z because it just screams. In reality it is barely faster. This is mainly due to a much larger amount of low end torque. The same can be said if you drive an S2000 or RX-8 and then drive the Z. The Z will feel so much faster but it really isn't.

 

Done 12 got it exactly right: When power comes on equally throughout the power band, you don’t have much of a surge anywhere, which is common amongst most cars. Generally speaking, it’s this sudden surge that gives most people the feeling of the car being “fast” or quick.

 

yes, z has very large low end torgue, if compare to same price range sport car. That's good for daily driving. not like other cars, must push the rpm high to get power out.

 

When I first bought my G35C, the pull felt ok. My passengers really didn't think it felt fast either. Definitely nothing impressive but I think perception has a little something to do with "feeling" fast.

After i bolted on some parts...popcharger/plenum/cats/exhaust, This things screams to redline. Albeit, it doesn't feel like FI fast, but it sure sounds faster. My passengers now definitely think it's a whole lot faster though, but I know in my head it's only several tenths faster in a quarter mile, somewhat negligible. Perception plays tricks on you.

 

i was very close to purchasing one, and although i didnt- i can tell you that from the many test drives i did with it, the car feels like a go kart of Xtasy... Its amazing weaving through traffic with that little monster. Even better if you install the ForcedFed Turbo kit to it.