So many variations on this, hit Skip Barber Car Control class and you will never have to worry about good/bad advice again on this subject. That is all that specific course is about. The pat answer "steer into the direction of the slide" isn't going to work for you in a variety of situations. Saying NEVER even tap the brake is also missing out on a technique drivers consistently use to take a higher speed into a corner, brake late, hard, and briefly, induce throttle oversteer but use that power to their advantage on exit as traction returns to all 4 tires. Watch people on a tight track when they are not in traffic - the fastest line is rarely that nice arc on paper of outside-apex-outside; there is a distinct turn-in point that is best, and the result is not some graceful arc of a curve.

You have to break it down, in all cases you've lost traction - and answer is IT DEPENDS WHY - bumpy track in the pavement? Unexpected off camber transition? Crap in an otherwise clean road? In all cases you are a) going too fast for the conditions and/or b) have a transition in traction of the surface you weren't expecting. Believe it or not, the stock car is very close to neutral but IMHO has a bit of understeer stock when pushed hard. Could be the smaller front contact patch; it's not sways as body roll is not the issue when I find understeer.

Any weather, any paved road surface (wet/dry) - rear kicks out some and you are losing some front traction too. You are simply likely going TOO fast. Car is plowing a bit and starting to turn on itself. NO BRAKES, countersteer and ease off the throttle, hope you have room to recover. This is the most common case; you are going for a ride and all you can do is minimize how bad the consequences may be.

The track or a closed course is a great place to learn how your car handles by progressively pushing it a little harder with someone telling you all your mistakes (and I don't care who you are, 99% of us make PLENTY of mistakes on any track). You will find the pat "steer into the slide" isn't all there is to recovering a car when you pass the limits of rear wheel traction. Once you learn how to handle the car closer to the limits you will likely lose some desire to push it on public roads quite so far knowing how limited your choices can be once you pass the line of "TOO FAST".

What you really want to learn for PUBLIC road driving is how to handle the car in extreme situations where you have NO choice but to do something radical (like someone pulls into your path, Bambi fills up the fast line you thought you were going to take, someone in front of you crashes). Those are the situations you want to really think about because they tend to help keep you alive and unhurt vs. stiff-armed and braking straight into a wreck. I have several times had to pitch a car somewhere I rather would not have gone to avoid the greater of two problems like these.

Highly recommended:
http://www.skipbarber.com/driving_sc...hp_school.aspx

 

Never throw poop at a fan.

 

I forgot to answer the question: point the wheels where you want the car to go. The car will follow.

 

Agree. Ounce the car is perpendicular to the intended line, the game is over. You are out of control. Lock the brakes, close your eyes and pray.

 

Make sure you're checking tire pressure with a decent guage with cold (not driven for a few hours at least) tires - you may be running the tires higher than recommended. Guessing 35 cold is on the door, that may be a little too high - 33 cold will give you a little better contact. Low profile tires are lower volume and more affected by temp changes and any loss in air than larger tires you may be used to - checking weekly is not too ****.

Your description indicates that even though 30 mph seems slow, ramps are notorious for oil and other slick junk dropped by cars, after a while and a fresh rain it's like driving on ice - and would you take the corner at 30 mph with the same tires on ice? When I hear back/side/front damage on the same side, that maybe started with a rear kick out but after that you were just going for a ride on wet, slick pavement. Probably too tight to recover - ramps have a nasty habit of a decreasing radius away from the highway.(gets progressively tighter on off-ramps, opposite onto on-ramps) What you describe is less a fishtail with high potential for spin than an abrupt loss of MOST of whatever traction you had. Sorry to hear about the damage.

Lost most of a side of an old car very similar way - exiting a freeway, ramp closed down suddenly to one very narrow lane at the worst place, slid the sucker straight into the underside of the freeway supports - raining, night, hadn't rained for awhile, too fast - thankfully it was a 1967 Chevy Caprice (Impala) I paid $450 bucks for - an inexpensive lesson although I didn't appreciate it at the time

 

I am taking you with me to Summit Point, WV in the spring of 2007 (if you live that long).

 

That was not a very nice thing to say.


[It is true however ]

 

C'mon man, what about the e-brake? When you are out of control, you will eventually regain control - either by severely arrested motion (not recommended), or maybe a little practice and lots of luck you can get control back the good way - if there is enough road and not unavoidable speed-arresting devices (trees, guardrails, telephone poles...). I agree most of the time in tight quarters the game is over, but sometimes not. The game is only over when you give up or something forces the issue for you (see last sentence).

Nothing to lose at that point and if you are damn lucky (and headed the right direction) you may just plant enough rear tire to swing back to less than perpendicular! Better than stomping on the fronts (which is what effectively happens with stomping on the pedal) and losing ALL steering control, plus it won't likely slow you down much.

Had a guy pull right out in front of me with me at ~ 35 mph on 3-4" of snow w/o any chance of missing him (he ran the stop). Pitched the car sideways rather than hit him at close to 45-60 deg and hopefully bleed some speed (on purpose, hard steering), came around way more than intended, past 90 deg to direction of travel. Rather than do 360's or worse, tried the only trick know to salvage it - grabbed the e-brake and hit the throttle (FWD, not RWD). Rear grabbed briefly (snow tires), front pulled me back in the general direction of desired travel, after that it was manageable to stop in a reasonably controlled manner. Any oncoming traffic, I we both would have been toast if I just hit the brake pedal.

I went all the way back the other direction a good 45 degrees, then did a series of fishtails in ever-smaller degree getting the car to a stop. Then I sat. For awhile. A LONG while.

I later found out the guy lived on the side road for years. He NEVER stopped at the stop sign, his reason "people drive too fast and need to slow down; if they can't slow down for me they're driving too fast" - strangely enough he's not around anymore, but it has been about 8 years since then

It's freak things like that where I think car control school is so much better than "race school" to learn the things cars can do (but maybe almost never should) that could keep you in once piece when the "feces hit the fan"

(DON'T try this at home)

 

Seriously... sell the Z before you kill yourself or somebody else. PLEASE!

 

ever watch tokyo drift?

 

Thanks for the tips SteveZ.

Davidv...smart@ss as always! :P. Summit Point it is come '07. Yes, I will be alive. Don't plan to drive the Z in the winter. Hell F%%king no.


BTW all, just came back from from having a few runs in an empty parking lot. it was still raining a bit today so the lot was pretty wet. As non ideal conditions I could get so I let the Z loose. I kept the car in 2nd gear mostly and I just did mostly figure 8s where ever I could and then hard turns. Many times it was really hard to get the Z's back end loose, and other times it wasn't. Another thing is I am not seeing my SLIP light come on when I loose traction. I am not sure if I just missed it and too focused on the area in front of me, but I am pretty sure I didn't see the SLIP light. There were a few good sliding turns I was able to turn my wheels into (via countersteering) to get back in the direction I wanted to go. I hate to admit it.....I was having fun. The lot was empty and the only risks were two light poles which I made sure I stayed far from when I tried my sharp turns.


Thank you for the most insightful feedback since you missed the point of this thread
.

 

Read the link post #1 to hitting guardrail - can happen to anyone, IMHO short of crawling through the corner like it's a skating rink, just 30 mph was likely too fast.
The ones who should sell their Z are the people who a) don't know the answer to this question, and b) don't have the ***** to knowingly invite abuse by asking.
At least half the 5 liter mustang drivers would have to sell their rides if you apply that criteria

 

More than welcome, ask the questions, live and learn.

And BTW you may be missing out on a grand experience, but that may be good (for now) - I put about 7k miles on last October to April here in Connecticut There was a time when 4WD was on pickups and FWD was next to non-existent - and 90% RWD passenger cars were the rule, not 10%...back when I learned to drive (ok, not legally, but Dad was cool)

See SNOWz

Drove about 90 miles the day this pic was taken, one of many interesting days:

 

^^you got ***** to drive in weather like that man. I am just glad to have a DD for weather like that. CT weather is mad cold. I remember last year or the year before you or MA (maybe both) got like a huge snow storm.

 

A little bit of snow is no big deal in the Z. I've been thru 2 winters (on the RE040's, mind you) and I've seen my fair share of snow and ICE. It's the ice that will gitchya.

BTW, a wet parking lot is a great place to learn.

 

Well its finally nice to see someone who asks for advice and actually takes it. Decided to go and practice learning how the Z handles in emergency situations. No save some money for performance driving school if you still feel uncomfortable about anything. Or ask one of the Z guys that lives near you if they wouldn't mind helping you out.

Good luck with learning

 

Happened to me today! I was making a right turn and was on the gas around the turn and the back end whipped right out but then VDC came on and saved my ***!

Thank you VDC

 

In fairness driving a RWD car when you have been driving FWD all your life is an eye opener... It's an entirely different beast... With FWD the car just pushes forward when you enter a corner to fast so its a lot easier to recover compared to RWD where the backend will come out on you..

Doesnt help either if your used to 160 HP FWD cars then jump into the seat of a 300 HP RWD car... I think people under estimate RWD cars, they require a lot more skill to drive then FWD or AWD vehicles...

 

High performance driving course... enough said

 

Watch the second half of this vid:
http://www.dpccars.com/car-movies/10...semi-truck.htm