Z or M3?
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It depends. The Z and the M3 both achieve their purpose 100%.
Z - A young, aggressively styled tuner 2-seater, great value.
M3 - A more mature, stylish but understated, fast euro with impeccable build quality.
Speed / Engine / Handling wise, the M3 is superior stock (but it danm well better be for double the money new for new) but 350z is better bang for buck, stock or tuned.
(edit)
ps. The M3 engine is a high-compression, high revving six. If you want to buy it second-hand be aware it might not last more than 100 - 150k miles and if pieces need replacing you're up for big biscuits.
Z - A young, aggressively styled tuner 2-seater, great value.
M3 - A more mature, stylish but understated, fast euro with impeccable build quality.
Speed / Engine / Handling wise, the M3 is superior stock (but it danm well better be for double the money new for new) but 350z is better bang for buck, stock or tuned.
(edit)
ps. The M3 engine is a high-compression, high revving six. If you want to buy it second-hand be aware it might not last more than 100 - 150k miles and if pieces need replacing you're up for big biscuits.
Last edited by tienlo; Nov 26, 2006 at 02:21 PM.
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 573
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From: California
My Z is at 15k+ & not a SINGLE problem..no interior problems nothing, U need to take better care of her
Originally Posted by jrod1014
I am actually in the process of selling my '05 Z in favor of an '03.5-'04 M3... Besides my love for the E46 M3 since they were released, other things factor into my decision...
Firstly, every car has it's issues... A number of problems plagued the early E46 M3's as well as the early Z33's. The Z suffered from feathering, faulty transmissions, defective stereos, etc... The M3 had a defect in the motor causing them to blow up under stress among other things... One key difference between the two companies is service. I think everyone here can collectively agree that Nissan service does not exist.
Sure the M3 has issues, but lets discuss the issues with my 12,400mi Z33. At this mileage, my interior already looks spent. The dye of my burnt orange seats is cracking off and basically wearing away, the upholstery is separating, and one of the TPMS sensors has gone bad... I went to the dealer to have some of the issues services under warranty and each time I go it's like I have to fist fight the service advisers and managers to get something done. All that happens when you try to get service is get excuses as to why the issues are your fault and not covered under warranty. Granted, issues with the interior might be considered wear and tear, but at less than 9,000mi (when I first started reporting the issues) some of these problems shouldn't happen. I can assure everyone on this forum that I treat my car with utmost care and still, the car comes apart. I managed to have a section of leather replaced in my car and I made the decision to sell it. A real shame because I really love the car.
I have a friend with an '05 M3 with Competition Pkg., It's at 30k miles and has had a number of problems since its delivery. His rear diff. clunks and has had to be replaced at least 3 times that I've heard. The drive shaft came off on a trip to Orlando and it has had at least one instance where the transmission was replaced. The difference? Each and every time the car went into the shop for major mechanical warranty work, there was no question asked and he was given a loaner and his car repaired within the week.
I may be comparing apples to oranges here... After all, the M3 can easily be a 60k car versus a maxed out Z at 40k...You pay a price for BMW and a Nissan is just a "Nissan". But I don't see it that way, my Z stickered at 38k and for that kind of money, I expect better. I can only imagine what is to become of the GTR... Imagine paying upwards of 70k for a car that might fall apart and still get treated like **** by the service dept. It's an issue that's been discussed over and over. Even the low end 325i's get the same stellar service that can be had on the high end models whereas my top of the line (Touring) Z doesn't get the time of day and looks and lately feels cheap... just cheap...
I am probably partial to the M3 but I think we can all agree that in almost all areas, E46 M3 > Z. Even used vs. new...
Firstly, every car has it's issues... A number of problems plagued the early E46 M3's as well as the early Z33's. The Z suffered from feathering, faulty transmissions, defective stereos, etc... The M3 had a defect in the motor causing them to blow up under stress among other things... One key difference between the two companies is service. I think everyone here can collectively agree that Nissan service does not exist.
Sure the M3 has issues, but lets discuss the issues with my 12,400mi Z33. At this mileage, my interior already looks spent. The dye of my burnt orange seats is cracking off and basically wearing away, the upholstery is separating, and one of the TPMS sensors has gone bad... I went to the dealer to have some of the issues services under warranty and each time I go it's like I have to fist fight the service advisers and managers to get something done. All that happens when you try to get service is get excuses as to why the issues are your fault and not covered under warranty. Granted, issues with the interior might be considered wear and tear, but at less than 9,000mi (when I first started reporting the issues) some of these problems shouldn't happen. I can assure everyone on this forum that I treat my car with utmost care and still, the car comes apart. I managed to have a section of leather replaced in my car and I made the decision to sell it. A real shame because I really love the car.
I have a friend with an '05 M3 with Competition Pkg., It's at 30k miles and has had a number of problems since its delivery. His rear diff. clunks and has had to be replaced at least 3 times that I've heard. The drive shaft came off on a trip to Orlando and it has had at least one instance where the transmission was replaced. The difference? Each and every time the car went into the shop for major mechanical warranty work, there was no question asked and he was given a loaner and his car repaired within the week.
I may be comparing apples to oranges here... After all, the M3 can easily be a 60k car versus a maxed out Z at 40k...You pay a price for BMW and a Nissan is just a "Nissan". But I don't see it that way, my Z stickered at 38k and for that kind of money, I expect better. I can only imagine what is to become of the GTR... Imagine paying upwards of 70k for a car that might fall apart and still get treated like **** by the service dept. It's an issue that's been discussed over and over. Even the low end 325i's get the same stellar service that can be had on the high end models whereas my top of the line (Touring) Z doesn't get the time of day and looks and lately feels cheap... just cheap...
I am probably partial to the M3 but I think we can all agree that in almost all areas, E46 M3 > Z. Even used vs. new...
M3 FTW!
Yeah, if you can afford an M3, go for it. Wife and I both needed new cars at the same time. I could have got a used E46 M3, but decided I wanted new and so did my wife, so we bought Z's. If I only had to pay for one new car, it would have been an M3!
The Z is a bargain for the money, but the level of refinement on the z is obvious, after owning/driving an E36 M3 for 6 years.
I bought my 97 M3 with 60k miles on it. Now it has 220k miles on it. Original EVERYTHING. No major work has been done or needs to be done yet. Well, the factory clutch went at 181k miles! Just got a compression test done this month and all 6 cylinders are within 5% of eachother. Also just passed smog again with flying colors.
The z's performance is on par with the E36 M3 (Even though the e36m3 is rated at 240HP 236lb/ft of torque and the Z is rated at 300 hp and 260lb/ft of torque. German horses must be bigger and stronger! The E46 M3 is in another league as far as acceleration is concerned. I think the Z has the upper hand in handling (on a track), but throw in some bumps and uneven pavement onto that corner and the Z will start to falter and the M3 will hold it's line.
Customer service. I take in the Z and they argue with me about noises I hear and that I am not used to the car or not driving it right. Or, if they can reproduce the noise or even comprehend what I am talking about, then they say it's normal. Bastards! They assume you're an uneducated idiot.
Every time I took in the M3, they would apologize for the inconvenience, pretty much kiss my a$$, and were ALWAYS able to deplicate and correct the problem. This was not very often mind you. Once for a crank-position senor gone bad (they even reimbursed my towing) and once for a problem with the power window. There were other minor things that I forget.
I'd be a lot happier about the Z if it could be purchased and maintained through BMW.
True, the EARLY E46 M3's had some engine issues, but BMW handled it with grace and offers a 100k mile warranty on the engine. The cars with the engine problem normally had it early on... within 30k miles. The newer ones do not have the problem, but BMW still offers the warranty just to ease the minds of it's customers.
Yeah, if you can afford an M3, go for it. Wife and I both needed new cars at the same time. I could have got a used E46 M3, but decided I wanted new and so did my wife, so we bought Z's. If I only had to pay for one new car, it would have been an M3!
The Z is a bargain for the money, but the level of refinement on the z is obvious, after owning/driving an E36 M3 for 6 years.
I bought my 97 M3 with 60k miles on it. Now it has 220k miles on it. Original EVERYTHING. No major work has been done or needs to be done yet. Well, the factory clutch went at 181k miles! Just got a compression test done this month and all 6 cylinders are within 5% of eachother. Also just passed smog again with flying colors.
The z's performance is on par with the E36 M3 (Even though the e36m3 is rated at 240HP 236lb/ft of torque and the Z is rated at 300 hp and 260lb/ft of torque. German horses must be bigger and stronger! The E46 M3 is in another league as far as acceleration is concerned. I think the Z has the upper hand in handling (on a track), but throw in some bumps and uneven pavement onto that corner and the Z will start to falter and the M3 will hold it's line.
Customer service. I take in the Z and they argue with me about noises I hear and that I am not used to the car or not driving it right. Or, if they can reproduce the noise or even comprehend what I am talking about, then they say it's normal. Bastards! They assume you're an uneducated idiot.
Every time I took in the M3, they would apologize for the inconvenience, pretty much kiss my a$$, and were ALWAYS able to deplicate and correct the problem. This was not very often mind you. Once for a crank-position senor gone bad (they even reimbursed my towing) and once for a problem with the power window. There were other minor things that I forget.
I'd be a lot happier about the Z if it could be purchased and maintained through BMW.
True, the EARLY E46 M3's had some engine issues, but BMW handled it with grace and offers a 100k mile warranty on the engine. The cars with the engine problem normally had it early on... within 30k miles. The newer ones do not have the problem, but BMW still offers the warranty just to ease the minds of it's customers.
Oh... The good about the z...
I used to have a heavily modified 91 CRX. I just loved the feel of that car, the ergonomics, the intimacy of the 2-seater cockpit. Only problem is that it had no power; even modified (NA)
The 350z has that same intimate, wonderfuly ergonimoc interior as the CRX, but with ball$! HA HA!
Really, everything is in the exact-right place and hands fall naturally to any of the controls.
M3 seats are more comfy, but the Z seats do a great job of holding onto you in the corners (compared to M3). The driving position is different too.
Nice short-throw shifter (except for the vibration) (M3, in comparison, feels like you are rowing a boat!)
The biggest disappointment for me is that the tranny in my Z really crunches into 2nd gear during a 1-2 shift. I can feel it through the entire drivetrain and it is heard outside of the car. Nissan says "It's normal". BS! My wife's does not do this, so mine shouldn't. I could friggin strangle Nissan service. What a bunch of losers.
I used to have a heavily modified 91 CRX. I just loved the feel of that car, the ergonomics, the intimacy of the 2-seater cockpit. Only problem is that it had no power; even modified (NA)
The 350z has that same intimate, wonderfuly ergonimoc interior as the CRX, but with ball$! HA HA!
Really, everything is in the exact-right place and hands fall naturally to any of the controls.
M3 seats are more comfy, but the Z seats do a great job of holding onto you in the corners (compared to M3). The driving position is different too.
Nice short-throw shifter (except for the vibration) (M3, in comparison, feels like you are rowing a boat!)
The biggest disappointment for me is that the tranny in my Z really crunches into 2nd gear during a 1-2 shift. I can feel it through the entire drivetrain and it is heard outside of the car. Nissan says "It's normal". BS! My wife's does not do this, so mine shouldn't. I could friggin strangle Nissan service. What a bunch of losers.
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 102
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From: Miami, Florida
Originally Posted by wildone_106
My Z is at 15k+ & not a SINGLE problem..no interior problems nothing, U need to take better care of her
Regarding other replies thus far: Don't get me wrong about the car. I love it. I have fought tooth and nail defending it on the Maxima forums talking about it's role and target audience. It is understood on my end that the Z is a blend of key attributes that excel in other cars at a more than fair starting price. I'm not trying to start an M3 vs Z war here but in MY own opinion, the M3 is a superior car in all areas that matter to me. I formulate my opinion having had substantial seat time in both vehicles.
As I spend money on my cars, some things begin to matter less and others take precedent. Service being one of them. Sure, BMW and Merc. may have their bad apples... But on average, you'll receive far better treatment at any one of their dealers over any given Nissan dealer.
Additionally, perception, whether we chose to admit it or not plays a heavy role in the purchase of a car. We want to be seen driving cool, expensive cars to impress girls, your high school enemy, or whoever... Both cars have negative stigma associated with them and the as$hole, d1ckheaddedness associated with the BMW has made me think at least twice before deciding it's what I wanted. I've gone as far as asking random people what they would think if they saw me driving the car because their opinions matter. The M3 would represent a long time love for the car as well as the benefit of right financial decisions on my part. Nothing more... I also wouldn't drive it as described by some in this forum just like I don't drive my Z like it rules the road.
Both cars have their strong points and their niche in the market. I still feel comparing them is like comparing apples and oranges as they aren't the same car. But for all intents and purposes, the M3 is a better vehicle all around (of course, it costs a lot more money): Looks are subjective but I find that those around me feel the M3 is a better looking car, it is faster stock, interior feels and is more refined, better leather, better service and it just has a better feel.
If you have the financial means to get one, I would. Even used vs. new...
Hey guys, thanks for all the input, this forum is great and I can't believe how many pages this thread has reached. I test drove an 06' Z today after driving a friend's E46 just yesterday, and I will say this... the M3 is hands down a better car. No brainer right? Well the M3 wasn't stock, it had many suspension mods done to it (mostly DINAN) and I was taking it up to 140 on a windy backroad.
Even though I wasn't able to push the Z like I did with the M3 (I was able to drive it in the rain though
) I will say this; I feel the Z was a better car when I weigh in the car costs and potential maintenance costs. I know the M3 is going going to break my bank, I'm not apt to buy a new one when the 08' model is just around the corner with most used M3's lacking a warranty. I've actually looked into getting the new 335i for 40k but then I think about how BMW used two turbos to make 300HP on a 6 and I shudder at the idea.
I've pretty much got my heart set on a Z, but I don't plan on purchasing one until March. I'll likely be getting a used 06' or new 07' so I can avoid some of the issues that the older models seem to have. Hopefully the 07' model will go up for sale soon (anyone know when??) so the demand for those will drop and so will the book value on the 06
Even though I wasn't able to push the Z like I did with the M3 (I was able to drive it in the rain though
) I will say this; I feel the Z was a better car when I weigh in the car costs and potential maintenance costs. I know the M3 is going going to break my bank, I'm not apt to buy a new one when the 08' model is just around the corner with most used M3's lacking a warranty. I've actually looked into getting the new 335i for 40k but then I think about how BMW used two turbos to make 300HP on a 6 and I shudder at the idea.I've pretty much got my heart set on a Z, but I don't plan on purchasing one until March. I'll likely be getting a used 06' or new 07' so I can avoid some of the issues that the older models seem to have. Hopefully the 07' model will go up for sale soon (anyone know when??) so the demand for those will drop and so will the book value on the 06
Last edited by fairtex; Nov 26, 2006 at 06:32 PM.
Everytime I hear "should I buy an M3?" I answer with, if you can't afford to buy a new one, don't buy a used one. Because frankly, the maintenance on those cars are very expensive, so if you do buy a used one most likely it won't have free maintenance and you're fu^ked.
Originally Posted by 97supratt
Everytime I hear "should I buy an M3?" I answer with, if you can't afford to buy a new one, don't buy a used one. Because frankly, the maintenance on those cars are very expensive, so if you do buy a used one most likely it won't have free maintenance and you're fu^ked.
Originally Posted by BeyJer
exactly why i got rid of mine...once the warranty expires, the engine is like a ticking time bomb for a 10k+ repair (1st one went at 22k).
here's your answer, parts for an m3 are twice as much, as is maintenance as is alot of other things... and it's not much faster.. intake and some downpipes/testpipes/ypipes on a Z and you'll take an M3 by a bus... they're for 50 yr old men or people with alot of money who just want something nice.
Originally Posted by kayfuNk
intake and some downpipes/testpipes/ypipes on a Z and you'll take an M3 by a bus...
You need just about every bolt-on to beat a properly driven M3.
Originally Posted by fairtex
yes... the car is awesome and is finely tuned, however the late peak power is not appealing to me, i plan on racing from a stop not from a roll 
Originally Posted by njsho
If you want a car for drag racing why dont you just get a mustang.
Originally Posted by fairtex
Because American cars are pure sh*t and I plan on using the car as a DD. Gas prices in California are off the charts, so a V8 GT is out of the question.
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 2,170
Likes: 1
From: NYC Area
Originally Posted by jrod1014
I am actually in the process of selling my '05 Z in favor of an '03.5-'04 M3... Besides my love for the E46 M3 since they were released, other things factor into my decision...
Firstly, every car has it's issues... A number of problems plagued the early E46 M3's as well as the early Z33's. The Z suffered from feathering, faulty transmissions, defective stereos, etc... The M3 had a defect in the motor causing them to blow up under stress among other things... One key difference between the two companies is service. I think everyone here can collectively agree that Nissan service does not exist.
Sure the M3 has issues, but lets discuss the issues with my 12,400mi Z33. At this mileage, my interior already looks spent. The dye of my burnt orange seats is cracking off and basically wearing away, the upholstery is separating, and one of the TPMS sensors has gone bad... I went to the dealer to have some of the issues services under warranty and each time I go it's like I have to fist fight the service advisers and managers to get something done. All that happens when you try to get service is get excuses as to why the issues are your fault and not covered under warranty. Granted, issues with the interior might be considered wear and tear, but at less than 9,000mi (when I first started reporting the issues) some of these problems shouldn't happen. I can assure everyone on this forum that I treat my car with utmost care and still, the car comes apart. I managed to have a section of leather replaced in my car and I made the decision to sell it. A real shame because I really love the car.
I have a friend with an '05 M3 with Competition Pkg., It's at 30k miles and has had a number of problems since its delivery. His rear diff. clunks and has had to be replaced at least 3 times that I've heard. The drive shaft came off on a trip to Orlando and it has had at least one instance where the transmission was replaced. The difference? Each and every time the car went into the shop for major mechanical warranty work, there was no question asked and he was given a loaner and his car repaired within the week.
I may be comparing apples to oranges here... After all, the M3 can easily be a 60k car versus a maxed out Z at 40k...You pay a price for BMW and a Nissan is just a "Nissan". But I don't see it that way, my Z stickered at 38k and for that kind of money, I expect better. I can only imagine what is to become of the GTR... Imagine paying upwards of 70k for a car that might fall apart and still get treated like **** by the service dept. It's an issue that's been discussed over and over. Even the low end 325i's get the same stellar service that can be had on the high end models whereas my top of the line (Touring) Z doesn't get the time of day and looks and lately feels cheap... just cheap...
I am probably partial to the M3 but I think we can all agree that in almost all areas, E46 M3 > Z. Even used vs. new...
Firstly, every car has it's issues... A number of problems plagued the early E46 M3's as well as the early Z33's. The Z suffered from feathering, faulty transmissions, defective stereos, etc... The M3 had a defect in the motor causing them to blow up under stress among other things... One key difference between the two companies is service. I think everyone here can collectively agree that Nissan service does not exist.
Sure the M3 has issues, but lets discuss the issues with my 12,400mi Z33. At this mileage, my interior already looks spent. The dye of my burnt orange seats is cracking off and basically wearing away, the upholstery is separating, and one of the TPMS sensors has gone bad... I went to the dealer to have some of the issues services under warranty and each time I go it's like I have to fist fight the service advisers and managers to get something done. All that happens when you try to get service is get excuses as to why the issues are your fault and not covered under warranty. Granted, issues with the interior might be considered wear and tear, but at less than 9,000mi (when I first started reporting the issues) some of these problems shouldn't happen. I can assure everyone on this forum that I treat my car with utmost care and still, the car comes apart. I managed to have a section of leather replaced in my car and I made the decision to sell it. A real shame because I really love the car.
I have a friend with an '05 M3 with Competition Pkg., It's at 30k miles and has had a number of problems since its delivery. His rear diff. clunks and has had to be replaced at least 3 times that I've heard. The drive shaft came off on a trip to Orlando and it has had at least one instance where the transmission was replaced. The difference? Each and every time the car went into the shop for major mechanical warranty work, there was no question asked and he was given a loaner and his car repaired within the week.
I may be comparing apples to oranges here... After all, the M3 can easily be a 60k car versus a maxed out Z at 40k...You pay a price for BMW and a Nissan is just a "Nissan". But I don't see it that way, my Z stickered at 38k and for that kind of money, I expect better. I can only imagine what is to become of the GTR... Imagine paying upwards of 70k for a car that might fall apart and still get treated like **** by the service dept. It's an issue that's been discussed over and over. Even the low end 325i's get the same stellar service that can be had on the high end models whereas my top of the line (Touring) Z doesn't get the time of day and looks and lately feels cheap... just cheap...
I am probably partial to the M3 but I think we can all agree that in almost all areas, E46 M3 > Z. Even used vs. new...
I purchased my Z on Nov 2002, now has 33k miles. The interior still looks new even the leather. It depends how you take care of it. It had minor warranty issues. But never broke down.