How fast have you driven in a car?
05-14-2002, 01:20 AM
#21
Charter Member #35
Originally posted by tbcz
Driving motor vehicles at high speed is inherently dangerous, be it on a highway or a racetrack. If you consider all activities that risk bodily harm to self as idiotic, well, that's a long list, and it includes driving cars on racetracks.
You infer that I would not be an idiot if I was doing 120 MPH on a racetrack as opposed to a deserted highway. So what is the real difference if it isn't the possibility of injuring others? Do they use a special kind of tarmac at racetracks that makes me less likely to lose control? Do I become a better driver simply by entering a racetrack? I understand that what you're saying is more about attitude and education...these can still be used outside of a racing venue. I just don't consider a little speed in the presence of only myself and the almighty in a capable automobile as a completely idiotic act.
Driving motor vehicles at high speed is inherently dangerous, be it on a highway or a racetrack. If you consider all activities that risk bodily harm to self as idiotic, well, that's a long list, and it includes driving cars on racetracks.
You infer that I would not be an idiot if I was doing 120 MPH on a racetrack as opposed to a deserted highway. So what is the real difference if it isn't the possibility of injuring others? Do they use a special kind of tarmac at racetracks that makes me less likely to lose control? Do I become a better driver simply by entering a racetrack? I understand that what you're saying is more about attitude and education...these can still be used outside of a racing venue. I just don't consider a little speed in the presence of only myself and the almighty in a capable automobile as a completely idiotic act.
Here is why:
1. Your chances of hitting a pothole or some other debris is much greater on a public road than on a racetrack (particularly in the Northeast where roadsalt often damages the road). A bump at 65 mph could turn into a disaster at 120+ The track has workers at major turns that are keeing their eye out for this kind of thing, and alerting everyone if there is a major hazard.
2. Most events require vehical safety inspections prior to driving (of course the condition of your car is still typically your responsability, so this isn't a major reason...). Unless of course you're driving a driver's school car....
3. If there are other cars on the track, the DIFFERENCE in speed between the track cars vs. highway cars is much less. Flying along at 120, you're probably not going to run into someone doing 75 in the straights (and if so, they'll probably yield- this leads me to the next point...)
4. No, you don't become a better driver by entering a racetrack. However, the instructional track event that I attended required that instructors ride in the car with all participants, at all times. The guy I rode with had been doing this stuff for about 20+ years-I defintely became a better, faster (and safer) driver with his guidance. These guys are really good at keeping us young guys from doing stupid stuff...
5. Tracks are designed with many safety features. For example, braking zones are typically identified at the end of long straights on the track- giving you ample time to slow down (its harder to judge stopping distances if you're not used to the speed). Another example is the considerable run-off that you'll find bordering the track. Even if you run off the road, you'll either slide into a giant, tree-free field, or worst case, smack your car against a barrier of tires. While you can still do considerable damage to your car, track barriers tend to be more forgiving than telephone poles.... In addition, you're defintely going to be wearing a seatbelt, with a helmet, and your car must be clear of all loose objects inside...
6. On a public road, you can never be 100% certain that you're the only person out there (this argument probably holds up better in New Jersey than other parts of the country...). At 120mph plus, when the time you have to react is reduced considerably, this is VERY important. At least on the track (at least the event that I particpated in), people are looking out for each other, and slower cars (with "encouragement" from instructors) are MUCH more likely to yield for faster ones...
7. If you're in an accident on the track, there are always emergency crews that are standing by that will get to your car in 1 minute... Smack your car up at 3AM on the highway in the middle of nowhere, and it might be a different story....
The bottom line, is that the controled environment of the track was designed for high speed (120+) driving, while the highways were not. Beyond that, participants in educational track events tend to be much more focused on safety and learning...as opposed to folks on the highway that are playing around....
Ethan
05-14-2002, 02:20 AM
#25
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sorry, but californians are slow drivers
compared to the expressways here in Atlanta! We've lived in both, and used to think californians were fast. My wife just spent a week in socal with her family and she was passing everyone before she realized that people dont drive as fast there. The big difference though, is that california drivers aren't idiots like the people here in atlanta. I drive 75-85 on the highways here, and constantly get passed by much faster drivers. The police just don't enforce traffic laws here, other than carpool lane violations.
05-14-2002, 02:22 AM
#26
One Three Zero
I Gotta type as many Z's as poZZible, sorry
I got a good run in my Lotus +2 off the Carousel at Road America, and cruised at 130 for a bit before braking for Canada Corner.
Ditto in my '97 Vento GLX.......damn governor's.
I also backed it up with a blast on "The Loneliest Highway in America" in Nevada.
Heck, I also saw 130 on my 88 Honda Hurricane!
Must have been my plattoe(sp).
Can't wait to see.....
153.....
in the Z
I got a good run in my Lotus +2 off the Carousel at Road America, and cruised at 130 for a bit before braking for Canada Corner.
Ditto in my '97 Vento GLX.......damn governor's.
I also backed it up with a blast on "The Loneliest Highway in America" in Nevada.
Heck, I also saw 130 on my 88 Honda Hurricane!
Must have been my plattoe(sp).
Can't wait to see.....
153.....
in the Z
05-14-2002, 03:16 AM
#28
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Originally posted by ZGiRL
i've only been tempted to go over 100...went 110 once. lol...i know, i'm a wimp!
i've only been tempted to go over 100...went 110 once. lol...i know, i'm a wimp!
05-14-2002, 03:38 AM
#29
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Ethan,
Thanks for your thoughts. I would never argue that it isn't safer (i.e. lessidiotic ) to drive at speed in a place designed for that purpose. And the public roadways would be a much safer place if everyone took the time to better educate themselves about driving as you have. I don't want you to think I condone excessive speeding or aggressive driving, because I absolutely do not. Rest assured though, that while I may occasionallybreak 80 or 90 on a public highway, neither you nor anyone else is going to see me do it!
Thanks for your thoughts. I would never argue that it isn't safer (i.e. lessidiotic
) to drive at speed in a place designed for that purpose. And the public roadways would be a much safer place if everyone took the time to better educate themselves about driving as you have. I don't want you to think I condone excessive speeding or aggressive driving, because I absolutely do not. Rest assured though, that while I may occasionallybreak 80 or 90 on a public highway, neither you nor anyone else is going to see me do it!
05-14-2002, 07:22 AM
#31
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Originally posted by Zay
125 mph heading north on 395 onto the 14th street bridge (for those that are familiar with DC) in a j30t, late one night on my home from work.
125 mph heading north on 395 onto the 14th street bridge (for those that are familiar with DC) in a j30t, late one night on my home from work.
05-14-2002, 07:41 AM
#33
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Originally posted by brackethead
Hopefully BEFORE you got to the Pentagon! It gets pretty twisty (for an Interstate) from Pentagon City and then over the bridge.
Hopefully BEFORE you got to the Pentagon! It gets pretty twisty (for an Interstate) from Pentagon City and then over the bridge.
05-15-2002, 08:36 AM
#34
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fastest speed for me
The fastest I personally have driven is 130+mph im my 90 300zx very early on a sunday morning while going eastbound on highway2 right after the crest of stevens pass..downhill it was scary and exciting...I felt like I was floating and out of control at the same time, came to my senses before a bend in the road, but it felt good....probably will not go that fast in my new Z..or at least not until it is broken in really broken in and there is not another soul on the road
05-15-2002, 09:16 PM
#36
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Can I level with you?
Ethan, c'mon...
I don't think we all needed a lecture as to why racetracks are safer than highways. Are they? Three words. Of course, yes!
Do people buy performance cars to hit the racetracks? Not many.
Let's be realistic here for a moment.
People who buy performance cars enjoy performance driving (usually). I will drive fast in the Z. Period. And so will most of us on this forum from time to time. Is there a difference between safe and unsafe driving? Yes. I would hope that most of us are responsible enough with a performance car like the Z to make correct choices while behind the wheel. Things like: When is it safe to drive at higher speeds? Where can I open it up and see how the car truly performs? At what speed should/can I pass?
I can tell you I won't be heading to the track to find answers to these questions. Most of us won't. Granted, there are ways to be safe while driving a performance vehicle. While incorporating these thoughts of safety for myself and for the people around me, I'm gonna find an open road and giggle right before I hit it hard and fast. It's the nature of the pure driver.
No track doesn't mean no speed. And when you claim beyond 80-90 MPH to be fast or "idiotic" on a public road or highway? I say come to CA and take the Z up the 405 on a sunny Saturday afternoon... then tell me how you feel.
I don't think we all needed a lecture as to why racetracks are safer than highways. Are they? Three words. Of course, yes!
Do people buy performance cars to hit the racetracks? Not many.
Let's be realistic here for a moment.
People who buy performance cars enjoy performance driving (usually). I will drive fast in the Z. Period. And so will most of us on this forum from time to time. Is there a difference between safe and unsafe driving? Yes. I would hope that most of us are responsible enough with a performance car like the Z to make correct choices while behind the wheel. Things like: When is it safe to drive at higher speeds? Where can I open it up and see how the car truly performs? At what speed should/can I pass?
I can tell you I won't be heading to the track to find answers to these questions. Most of us won't. Granted, there are ways to be safe while driving a performance vehicle. While incorporating these thoughts of safety for myself and for the people around me, I'm gonna find an open road and giggle right before I hit it hard and fast. It's the nature of the pure driver.
No track doesn't mean no speed. And when you claim beyond 80-90 MPH to be fast or "idiotic" on a public road or highway? I say come to CA and take the Z up the 405 on a sunny Saturday afternoon... then tell me how you feel.
05-15-2002, 09:51 PM
#37
Charter Member #35
Re: Can I level with you?
Sorry KraZy, I wasn't trying to give everyone a lecture. I was specifically responding to TBCZ who asked "So what is the real difference (between the racetrack and a deserted highway) if it isn't the possibility of injuring others?"
I agree with you that most people who buy performance cars do not take them on a racetrack. Much like most people with SUVs never go offroad. This is a shame. I believe that if you take your car to an educational (non competitive) track event, you'll develop an entirely new definition of <B>performance</B> driving. At least that was the case for me... Especially with a car like the 350Z, it will be very hard to reach the limits of that car on any public road...
Why won't you take your car to the track?
I'm not sure what you're talking about when you say "pure driver" I've never heard of that term before. Perhaps you could elaborate on what you mean by that...?
I've driven on the 405 several times. I could never get about 20 mph with all of that damn traffic! This was both during the week and on weekends.
Ethan
I agree with you that most people who buy performance cars do not take them on a racetrack. Much like most people with SUVs never go offroad. This is a shame. I believe that if you take your car to an educational (non competitive) track event, you'll develop an entirely new definition of <B>performance</B> driving. At least that was the case for me... Especially with a car like the 350Z, it will be very hard to reach the limits of that car on any public road...
Why won't you take your car to the track?
I'm not sure what you're talking about when you say "pure driver" I've never heard of that term before. Perhaps you could elaborate on what you mean by that...?
I've driven on the 405 several times. I could never get about 20 mph with all of that damn traffic! This was both during the week and on weekends.
Ethan
Last edited by ethan84ae; 05-15-2002 at 09:53 PM.
05-15-2002, 11:34 PM
#38
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I don't understand. Why is it "ashame" that people who buy performance cars don't take them to the track?
The fun of driving to me is on an open road, not a closed track. I can understand (and would be very interested) in taking a driving course to learn every nuance of performance driving. But, it's a track? I don't want to be limited to an oval or something to that effect. I want to find a back road, an open stretch of highway or I-15 en route to Vegas, ya know? To me, that's where it's at. I don't want to be confined. Open road, baby.
By "pure driver" I mean someone who just absolutely loves to drive. Pretty simple. No, not a professional or course-educated know-it-all. Simply, a driving enthusiast like myself. I want to get in... and GO. Drive. Who cares where... just the love of driving and feeling the car. I'm not a freaking racecar driver, for God's sake! I'm just someone who wants the luxury of performance at my hands and feet with the Z...
I'm on the 405 EVERYDAY, Ethan. 20 mph is hardly the norm. This freeway is ripping with speedy drivers all day long, any day of the week. Sure, there are traffic times as with any metropolitan area. But, trust me. This freeway is a mecca for speed and littered with Z bait: BMW, Porsche, Audi, etc. It's just the nature of the Orange County. $$$
The fun of driving to me is on an open road, not a closed track. I can understand (and would be very interested) in taking a driving course to learn every nuance of performance driving. But, it's a track? I don't want to be limited to an oval or something to that effect. I want to find a back road, an open stretch of highway or I-15 en route to Vegas, ya know? To me, that's where it's at. I don't want to be confined. Open road, baby.
By "pure driver" I mean someone who just absolutely loves to drive. Pretty simple. No, not a professional or course-educated know-it-all. Simply, a driving enthusiast like myself. I want to get in... and GO. Drive. Who cares where... just the love of driving and feeling the car. I'm not a freaking racecar driver, for God's sake! I'm just someone who wants the luxury of performance at my hands and feet with the Z...
I'm on the 405 EVERYDAY, Ethan. 20 mph is hardly the norm. This freeway is ripping with speedy drivers all day long, any day of the week. Sure, there are traffic times as with any metropolitan area. But, trust me. This freeway is a mecca for speed and littered with Z bait: BMW, Porsche, Audi, etc. It's just the nature of the Orange County. $$$
05-15-2002, 11:57 PM
#39
Charter Member #35
Well you can't understand until you give track driving a shot!!!
Don't get me wrong- I totally agree that getting your car out on the open road, and going fast (within reason) is cool. I plan on doing plenty of that. But if you consider driving to be a skill, and you want to be a bit more serious about it, keep reading. If not, that's fine with me- I'm sure you'll still enjoy your Z (and I hope you do!). I guess you'll just never know what you're missing right...?
I drove my '84 Z Turbo at an education event at Virginia International Raceway (www.virclub.com) and it was kickass! I'm not talking about an oval track- this course has 21+ turns and 2 straights. The various elements and elevation changes on a track challenge you in ways that you just don't get on regular roads. The idea is to follow a "racing line" - which allows you to carry as much speed as possible through the turns. This isn't as easy as you might think, but when you get it right, there is nothing more exciting.... I can't wait to hammer my new Z around those turns. Just look at the pics below and tell me that you would have zero desire to give it a shot yourself...!?!?!
Here is a map of the track: http://www.virclub.com/pages/Laps/trackmap.html
And some shots of a few parts of the track:
<IMG SRC="http://www.virclub.com/pages/Laps/esses2.jpg">
<IMG SRC="http://www.virclub.com/pages/Laps/oaktree_approach.jpg">
<IMG SRC="http://www.virclub.com/pages/Laps/oaktree.jpg">
<IMG SRC="http://www.virclub.com/pages/Laps/backstraight.jpg">
<IMG SRC="http://www.virclub.com/pages/Laps/rollercoaster_approach.jpg">
<IMG SRC="http://www.virclub.com/pages/Laps/rollercoaster.jpg">
Don't get me wrong- I totally agree that getting your car out on the open road, and going fast (within reason) is cool. I plan on doing plenty of that. But if you consider driving to be a skill, and you want to be a bit more serious about it, keep reading. If not, that's fine with me- I'm sure you'll still enjoy your Z (and I hope you do!). I guess you'll just never know what you're missing right...?
I drove my '84 Z Turbo at an education event at Virginia International Raceway (www.virclub.com) and it was kickass! I'm not talking about an oval track- this course has 21+ turns and 2 straights. The various elements and elevation changes on a track challenge you in ways that you just don't get on regular roads. The idea is to follow a "racing line" - which allows you to carry as much speed as possible through the turns. This isn't as easy as you might think, but when you get it right, there is nothing more exciting.... I can't wait to hammer my new Z around those turns. Just look at the pics below and tell me that you would have zero desire to give it a shot yourself...!?!?!
Here is a map of the track: http://www.virclub.com/pages/Laps/trackmap.html
And some shots of a few parts of the track:
<IMG SRC="http://www.virclub.com/pages/Laps/esses2.jpg">
<IMG SRC="http://www.virclub.com/pages/Laps/oaktree_approach.jpg">
<IMG SRC="http://www.virclub.com/pages/Laps/oaktree.jpg">
<IMG SRC="http://www.virclub.com/pages/Laps/backstraight.jpg">
<IMG SRC="http://www.virclub.com/pages/Laps/rollercoaster_approach.jpg">
<IMG SRC="http://www.virclub.com/pages/Laps/rollercoaster.jpg">
Last edited by ethan84ae; 05-16-2002 at 12:16 AM.
05-16-2002, 01:07 AM
#40
Road Racing Rules
Ethan,
I have to agree with you. Taking turn one flat-out(no lift) at Indianapolis Raceway Park was an all time high for ME! 4 wheel drift at 120MPH, in my GP Spitfire. I've raced or driven about 1/3 of the Road Courses in the USA. Damn, I still gotta get on Mid Ohio! And by the looks of VIR, would love to try that also. How new is it?
Heck, my dad drove a few of the Mid-Western tracks as a Mercedes Benz Club member, in his retirement. Not very fast, but he had a ball!
Track time is an excellent place to find limits, the vehicle's, and one's self. I won't mention all the "landscaping" I've done 
Very hard to find limits without exceeding them. It's not really possible to do that on the street.
KraZy, I also understand you're position, but I think you would enjoy driving on a Road Coarse. Just for grins & giggles.
As a fellow racer (BP Corvette)once told me, Road Racing is nothing but a bunch of Drag Races, interupted by turns!
I have to agree with you. Taking turn one flat-out(no lift) at Indianapolis Raceway Park was an all time high for ME! 4 wheel drift at 120MPH, in my GP Spitfire. I've raced or driven about 1/3 of the Road Courses in the USA. Damn, I still gotta get on Mid Ohio! And by the looks of VIR, would love to try that also. How new is it?
Heck, my dad drove a few of the Mid-Western tracks as a Mercedes Benz Club member, in his retirement. Not very fast, but he had a ball!
Track time is an excellent place to find limits, the vehicle's, and one's self. I won't mention all the "landscaping" I've done
Very hard to find limits without exceeding them. It's not really possible to do that on the street.
KraZy, I also understand you're position, but I think you would enjoy driving on a Road Coarse. Just for grins & giggles.
As a fellow racer (BP Corvette)once told me, Road Racing is nothing but a bunch of Drag Races, interupted by turns!