I need to vent and I need some advice.

Here is the general summary on my problem. (Link to my previous thread for more detail: https://my350z.com/forum/showthread....steering+wheel) My alignment is perfect (confirmed by me and the dealer) but my steering wheel is slightly offset to the left. This is noticeable regardless of where I am as far as the road crown goes. This offset is not very large. As a matter of fact, a person who’s a lot less **** than I am would probably never notice it. But dammit, if I pay 30K for a car it has to be perfect . . . for at least 12,000 miles. I decided to bring up this issue when scheduling my 3000-mile service appointment today. As far as I can tell, pulling the steering wheel and reattaching it correctly should solve my problem. This is exactly what I suggested to the guy on the phone. I can’t tell you exactly what was said but if you have ever seen Abbott and Costello’s “Who’s on First?” you’ll know exactly how I felt.

My dealer is giving me one option only. They will screw with my alignment, which by the way is absolutely perfect, in an attempt to straighten my steering wheel. According to this guy, they will still have to do the alignment even if they pull the steering wheel. WTF?!

I have tried to explain that I do not wish to trade one small problem for a more serious problem. Apparently I was talking to someone with an IQ of my spare tire and have completely wasted 15 minutes of my life.

On my drive from work I had a chance to reflect on this whole thing. I have three options:

A. Forget about the whole thing and never go to that dealer again. After all, small offset in the steering wheel is not the end of the world especially considering that my Z is running perfect – minus 6 rattles it developed (I’ll save that for another post).

B. Call Nissan and push on my dealer to have this problem fixed. This could potentially get complicated – creating more problems than it is solving.

C. Find a new dealer. No reputable dealers near me.


Any input on this would be appreciated.

For those of you who already have the service manual (I ordered mine today): does the car really need to be aligned after adjusting the steering wheel?

I live in northern NJ. I will drive 50, hell, I will drive 100 miles just to talk to a mechanic who can tell his head from his ***. So, for all of you that live near by (NJ, NY, PA) let me know if you know a competent mechanic.

Thanks,

Dmitry

P.S. At this point I would have to advise against taking (or buying for that matter) your car to East Coast Nissan in Plainfield NJ.

 

I have the same problem.

I have been dealing with Nissan for 3 weeks. They have been no help. I have had the car in 3 times.

You will not have any luck with Nissan, I guarantee it.

Please keep me informed. I will be taking my car back to the dealer to have it looked at yet again.

It does not sound like they are doing a 4 wheel alignment on your car or on mine. If the rear wheels are out of alignment this will cause the exact problem you are describing.

The front alignment can be perfect, yet the rear wheels will throw the steering wheel out of wack, because they are not aligned to the front wheels.

I have the factory service manual, and you can move the steering wheel up to 2 (two) notches on the steering column without adjusting the tie-rods. Thus, your dealer is not telling you the entire story.

The other issue to take note of is that when adjusting the alignment of the car, your dealer MUST RESET THE VDC steering shaft sensor. Are you making sure that this is being done?

If not, you will have grounds for a major complaint with Nissan as this is a Major safety issue. My dealer did not do this and I will be in touch with Nissan Customer Care tomorrow.

I am also thinking of just pulling the steering wheel and doing the work myself, though this is a pain. It requires airbag removal, which requires a special tool to remove the security bolt.

I also am wondering if Nissan has built this "tilt" into the alignment of the car. I have been researching the topic and have found that this is actually common practice. That is, many companies align the wheel off to the left to compensate for road crown.

All the 350z's that I drove had steering wheels off to the left. It was not just mine, so there may be some truth to it. I am positive nearly all the 350z's on this forum have similiar symptoms, but most would never notice, or care if they did.

Lets see if we can get to the bottom of it.

Let me know what you come up with, I'll post what Nissan has to say. Perhaps if we both contact the same advisor? I am in contact with a woman by the name of Lisa, she has been very unfriendly and has been no help.

Eric

 

They probably think you're crazy because you're talking about pulling the steering wheel.

When they align your car they set the steering wheel centered and align to that. So basically your car is just out of alignment, your steering wheel is probably installed correctly, lol.

 

You should try Acme Nissan in South Brunswick, NJ. www.acmenissan.com
THat is where I bought my car and where I have it repaired. They have done 2 transmissions, rebuilt my rear axles, fixed my window grease problem(sort of) and ordered me a new seat, without question. The head mechanic is Kevin and he does all the work on my car. They have not questioned me once on all the problems I've been having with my car, even with the mods.... You can email or PM me if you have any questions.....

 

Just a word of advice on moving the steering wheel. The splines on most steering columns I have seen are fairly coarse. If your wheel is just a little off to one side then moving the wheel even one single spline might just make it a little off to the other side.

Don't ask me how I know this.

If you count the number of splines you can find out how many degrees each spline is good for.

degrees changed for moving one spline = (360 / #splines)

Good luck.

 

Find a reputable alignment place in your region that specializes only in alignments and take the car there. If you don't know one, check with what the local good race shops reccomend. One that does alignments on sports cars and for people who track their cars. A dealer will just get the car "within spec" they won't match side to side and so on...

Go to this alignment place and make sure before pulling the steering or doing something more drastic.

good luck.

 

Try putting a couple extra pounds air pressure in the tires on one side of the car.

 

A car that is properly aligned has the steering wheel straight, end of statement. DO NOT let this delaer off the hook. If they do not get it right, contact Nissan themselves. They have reps that will insure your car is done right. I know this because my brother was the Master Tech for Southern Calif, Az, and Nv. He handled all problems other Nissan dealers could not fix. this happened after the reps got involved. My point has two issues:

1. The reps will get your car done right. Fixing your car by yourslef may vold the warranty in that area and part of what you paid for with a new car is the warranty.

2. Nissan needs to know what dealers are not doing quality work. If you just go to another dealer without documenting and complainning, then that dealer is off the hook. Trust me, dealers love work AFTER warranty much more than warranty work. The techs get paid more per hous for one so Warranty work sucks for them so if they can get you to not get it fixed, that is ok for them if you do not take action.

Good luck, Jeff

 

Remember, a dealer is not Nissan, they might represent Nissan but they are not Nissan. If you read Mr K's book, you will see that Nissan was founded in America on quality service after the sale. Nissan itself is very good at taking care of problems. The issue is, give you dealer a chance to fix the problem, document what they did and said, and if not happy, contact a Nissan rep!

From listening to my brother tell me stories of him working with Nissan Reps, they will do anything in their power to fix a car and if they can't fix it, give you a new car. One story he told me delt with a Maxima, it got delivered to his dealer after another dealers tech's could not fix it. He worked on this problem for 2 weeks without success. Nisaan flew in an Engineer from Japan. This was the actual guy that designed the ECU. They could not fix the car so Nissan replaced it.

If Nissan will fly an Engineer accross the world to fix one car, they do care to get it right. Again, document your work done at the dealer, then call the rep.

BTW, many dealers are opting to hire non trained techs instead of paying master Tech's more. There is only one Master Tech left in San Diego county at the dealers, all the rest left and open their own shops due to low pay (including my brother). so, make sure a master tech ceritified by Nissan is working on your car and not a hack. You might not even have a master tech at that dealer, if that is the case, you have no chance of getting it fixed right. The serice writers know who is good and not as techs. Insist you get the best one.

good luck, Jeff

 

No,

I have been on the phone with nissan over 10 time, been to the dealer 3 times, and complained to both of them more times than I care to recount.

NISSAN HAS BEEN ZERO HELP! They told me my steering wheel is straight, end of story. They were not willing to look into it or help any further.

I even threatened them with a lemon suit and they didnt care.

I work in the legal profession and a law office so I know my options and have an entire staff at my disposal. I used every legal term in the book, when speaking with Nissan. I put things in writing, etc. I am telling you Nissan could care less. It will cost me a great deal of time to fix this issue.

If they wont fix alignment, I cant help but wonder what else they wont fix. I really feel for the guys having tranny and tire issues. I think the only course of action for them is a class action suit.

I have not had time to pursue this over the last 7 days, but I will be on a mission starting this afternoon as soon as I clear my work schedule.

I agree if the steering wheel is not straight the car is not aligned, end of story. However, the trouble is you cant take the car to just any alignment shop.

As stated before the VDC must be reset, each time the car is aligned. This requires the consult II computer that Nissan Dealers use. Is this the same as the OBD computer? I am not sure of this.

In any event, I am convinced the specs being given to dealers are out of wack. This is a simple affair, I'll continue to inform. However, it looks like we are fighting an uphill battle.

Eric

BTW this is my 3rd Nissan in as many years, this is the norm, customer service is a joke.

 

If their customer service is a joke:

1. Then it changed in past 3 years since my brother was at the dealers. I am not discounting your experiences , I am sure they are valid. I am sorryy to hear of your continued problems, it must be frustrating. Remember, 3rd time on the same repair = lemon law time.

2. If that is true, then why did you buy a 3rd Nissan?

3. After owning a Ford, GM, and Dodge, Japenese cars are so far beyond them it is amazing. On my Dogde Ram truck, it had rear brakes that is a technical service buletin where described as too small but Dodge would not replace them. The list goes on and on. If you think their is a better car than a Nissan, then I suggest you trade your Z in on it. Life is too short to be unhappy. Actually, I bought my Z because it was a Nissan. Before anyone says Toyota, let me just say V6 in thier trucks.

Good luck, let us know how it ends up!

 

CAll 1-800-nissan1.... .. press what ever buttons to get to consumer affairs, then dial ext 3857, his name is David. He has been very helpful to me with all my problems, and he has even given me a free 100k full warranty on my car.... good luck....

 

Good news,

Nissan assigned an engineer to check out the problem on June 3rd. So I will drop the car off for the day and see what the story is.

FYI to achieve this result required 4 weeks of calling, 4 trips to the dealer, and endless frustration.

Eric

 

If I was a dealer dealing with some peckerhead throwing a fit because his steering wheel was slightly off, and when I aligned it the wheel was straight on the test drive and the guy kept coming back, I would just pull the wheel that distance in the opposite direction when I did the alignment, and align it to that. Either that or start flipping tires.

I don't understand why the dealer won't do something to shut you up, there should be a simple solution, an alignment is just an adjustment. Must be a bunch of ********.

 

Ralphus,

Alignment is actually a complicated affair. I did not believe it either, at first.

This is the reason so many people are having trouble with tire feathering. It is very hard to know if it is related to the alignment or the suspension!

The problem at hand is the alignment machine each dealer uses must be calibrated. This calibration only holds so long, before it must be calibrated again. In theory it is to be calibrated after each and every car is aligned. (This is proper procedure, though rarely done)

Then there is the fact that each car is slightly out of spec, as it is being built from the factory.

You are also dealing with calibration figures given to you by Nissan which are generated using a perfectly square vehicle or generated by the computer programs that helped design the car.

They are also generated on cars that have square suspension, perfect weight distribution, etc.

We have no idea if the factory alignment specs were generated with a person siting in the car, etc. What weight driver did they intend to sit in the vehicle?

The Factory service manual says that alignment must be taken with the car in an "unladen state" (feel free to correct my spelling).

This means that the car must be filled with gas, have no suspension bind and have the steering wheel turned to the left, turned to the right, with the ignition on. Then the car must be turned off, and turned back on, and then the procedure repeated, twice.

Do you think the dealers really do this before an alignment? I doubt it! When was the last time your dealer made sure your gas tank was full before aligning your car?

Thus if you add all the variables together you can get a HUGE error, when one goes to align a car.

Thus, if one has an issue such as ours in which the steering wheel is in the neutral postion, and the car is still out of alignment, making the steering wheel straight would not fix the issue.

It would only hide it. The wheels would still be pointing a different direction, in order to achieve a straight and forward motion.

The issue is: our steering wheels are straight, however they must be turned to the left to drive our cars in a straight line.

If our wheels are straight, we very quickly will turn to the right lane- in my case within 50 feet.

Hope this helps, for anyone else having the same issue.
Eric

P.S. I agree my dealer is not doing the right thing, maybe the Nissan engineer will.

 

Thanks for all the input.

I guess I was wrong in thinking that adjusting the steering wheel would solve my problem. I’ll agree with Eric – adjusting the steering wheel would only mask the problem.

I decided to take the following approach with the dealer: baby steps. I won’t expect them to fix a problem right away. After all, who takes their car to the dealer and expects it to be fixed on the first try?! (I am being sarcastic here) Soooo, last time they told me my alignment was perfect and it was probably the road crown. This time I can tell them it is definitely not the road crown so they will have to give me a different reason. Like I said – baby steps. I guess my ultimate goal is to have some kind of paper trail in case my tires will feather in the next couple thousand miles. That way I can take them to Bridgestone and say “hey look my tires are #$%^ but my dealer says my alignment is perfect”. Or the other way around: tell my dealer “my tires are %^&* but you told me my alignment is perfect” (I have a final tomorrow and things have been super hectic at work so my logic may be a little off).

Anyway, my car will be in on Monday and I will keep you guys posted. Honestly, I don’t think they will do anything useful besides changing my oil.

On a side note, I just realized that not only is my steering wheel offset to the right but it also might be crooked ->https://my350z.com/forum/showthread....threadid=29302

lol

Dmitry

 

Ok, but all I'm saying is, when they align your car, they set the steering wheel to what looks straight, clamp it, and then proceed to do the alignment.

Now if every time I aligned it, the customer came back saying the steering wheel was offset, I would simpley just drive it, or have him drive it and look at it, and then I would eye how far it was off.

Now lets say the wheel when driving was about 1/12 a turn to the right. I would do the alignment, and instead of centering the wheel, I would do it with the wheel 1/12 to the left.

Seems like the easiest solution.

 

Ralphus,

I agree with you 100%. Why they cant seem to accomplish this is beyond me!

It is almost comical, save for the fact I have to drive the car each day!


Still a great car, It will be corrected one way or another I am sure.
Eric

 

Amazing,

I went to the dealership yesterday and got the old "We can't duplicate the problem, there is nothing wrong with your car"

I think if the wheels fell off the car in the dealership, they would still look at me and tell me: "There is nothing wrong with your car"

GRRRR.

The funny thing is- the offset is so small I probably would have told them to leave it alone anyway-don't want them messing my car up for no good reason.

Oh well, I will have to figure out if it will be worth my time and effort to beat this thing to death. It is bothering me less and less and I am pretty much inclined to leave it alone for now.

Thanks for all the input.

Dmitry

 

He is right on this! Leave the steering wheel alone and you'll save yourself a lot of headache later. I know first hand about this regarding a previously owned automobile.