Its been a few days and I have been contemplating this one issue. First off I think the 350z is a beautiful car. The performance is good as well. What I do not understand is why it is slower then the new evolution 8 and the Sti. I know those engines are 4bangers and turbo charged, but they are tuned from the factory and I have found people state that they are reliable cars from reliable companies which produce them. The 350z has 287hp and 276tq and weighs in between 3200-3300 pounds. The 0-60 is 5.4 at best and ¼ mile is 13.9 at best. The VQ35DE is used in most of nissan’s vehicles, and yet the aftermarket parts are expensive. I have read posts about how this engine is one of the best engines in the world. Then I hear that a N/A car can not be turbo charged and if it can be turbo charged it will not be reliable. All this information has put me into a state of confusion between for the choice of my next car.

My questions are the following:

Why does the 350Z weigh so much? (the rx-8 seems to have a similar body dimensions and can seat 4 but still weighs less about 100-200pounds)

Why is the same power plant used in the 350Z as the other Nissan vehicles?
(Is this not supposed to be a special race car so shouldn’t it have a special power plant)

In a non bias approach to this question … What do you believe will remain a faster car with aftermarket support out of these three 350Z EVO8 or the STI?

 

Hope you have your flame suit on!

1. Nissan is desprately trying to make every model as profitable as possible. So platform/engine sharing is inevitable. I would love to see a ~300hp 3.2L straight 6 that revs to 8000rpm ala M3, but that would we wayyy too expensive. Giving the Z the VQ35 helps them put the car in a more attractive pricepoint.

2. The FM platform is heavy because it was designed for not only the 350Z and G35, but the FX series as well. So additional beefing was necessary. Upside is the Z gets an exceptionally rigid overbuilt chassis, but the downside is weight. Nissan tried to make other parts of the car lighter, but most of its heft are from areas you can't remove.

3. The "new" breed of AWD cars are redefining the book on bang/buck. Most people on this board are quick to call them cheap glorified econoboxes. Say what you want, they're kicking some serious butt on the street/track.

 

why does it weigh so much?.... The 350 is pretty light considering all the frame reinforcements ( probably on par with skyline frame) plus the 350 got 5 stars on crash test ratings. I'm sure we can make the car lighter but who knows how rigid the frame will be after that.

the vq35 is the same block used on alot of nissan cars because it is a proven motor that performs. just because they all share the same block doesn't mean the internals and other engine components are the same.

although the evo and sti are great cars with a good following they don't have the same racing heritage and history of the Z. The Z is all motor ( in my opinion more refined and keeps linear power) plus how can you even compare the looks of the Z to the wrx and lancer. they are all sports cars but also very different. different demographics I would say ..... those with taste and those without...

 

1) im sure a large contributing factor is the motor, a rotary is not as large as a large V6 like in the Z which could easily make up the 100lb difference, along with the fact that Mazda is very innovative with saving weight (look at the last RX-7)

2) cost, Nissan wanted this Z to be more affordable than the 300ZX of late. Using a common motor and just souping it up made it more cost effective and met their pricing/performance goals. this Z is faster than a stock 300ZXTT.

3) the EVO8 and STI will obviously be more able with simple bolt on parts, but they are pretty heavily turbo'd, so to get more serious performance gains without spending some major dollars will be harder for those cars. Aftermarket support will likely follow the EVO and STI more than the 350Z as those cars already have tons and tons of parts available in Japan. I think the aftermarket has responded pretty well to the 350Z so far, and I think in another year or two many many more products will be available. However, I used to own a Honda....i think the aftermarket support for all three cars is pretty low compared to what i was used to before. I could get a performance part for anything on my car that wasnt too expensive, and i could choose from numerous companies. i could only wish the 350Z had that kind of aftermarket support, but fortunately/unfortunately there wont be since there wont be as many 350Z's on the road, and im sure a large number that are on the road wont be looking to modify their cars. lots of older men driving them just to have cause they thought the car looked hot, the kind of guy that would go into the dealer and pick up an automatic touring model.

 

even though the Z has been around for a long time as a model, you cant bag on the racing heritage of the EVO or the STI. You must not watch WRC rally or know much of it. Those cars have a huge following with a lot of heritage in that series. Even though only 10 years old or so, every car has to get a start somewhere. I would also question why you would say someone that would buy an STI would lack taste? Look at what you get for $30k, i would say its a better bargain than the Z.

 

faster out of the box, and even short run mods are going to the turbo 4 bangers, one thing to remember is they have AWD, this gives them launch advantages, too bad if you plan on racing from a stop, they should all have V8s. I4s and V6 are better suited to track racing, which AWD isnt going to help much with, itll help some, but no where near how it would on a launch.


anyway, the evo is at 18psi, who knows how much it can take. more tha 18 probably, but not a whole lot more... it would likely top out at 500hp give or take, barring engine swaps and what not. wrx is slightly larger displacement, and less stock boost, so maybe itll see 600hp? this is my best guess at the most hp your going to realisticly see. Im sure others will disagree, but thats my opinion.

the Z will see 800-1000hp, realisticly. the Z is a tighter frame, with more structure to it. hence the extra weight.

both are great cars, similair power, and performance, with VERY VERY VERY different ways of getting there.

If I lived in the north with snow, I would have considered them much more.

 

Weight is always an issue.

The 350z runs with the BMW E36, but we have 50 more HP. I'd guess the weight of the Z, not the gearing, is why its not much faster than a car down in HP...

The Z seems to have decent gearing, although the shift to 2nd, does drop the car back. It should a little lower in gearing there if you look at the 0-30, 0-40, etc... The car slows at shift.


Still Love it, just giving some facts !

 

It seems like people on this forum have a reality-check problem. Evo's and Sti's are faster than the Z. It's actually nowhere close in stock forms.

Yes, you get much more bang for the buck with those two cars, compared to the Z.

Yes, they seat four people and have four doors. Some people like that; others don't.

Yes, they have more aftermarket support.

Yes, the parts are cheaper.

People who say Z's will max out at 800-1000rwhp, remember that this ain't a Supra.

I don't know why people crap on the Evo/Sti so much on this forum. I own a Z, but I still think those two cars are awesome--they're just different. Just accept the truth that those two others cars are faster...your Z's not the fatest car in the world.

 

Just Kidding.

Those aren't some bad questions lets see if we can answer.

1. Yeah the Z is a little porky for a sports car compared to say the 911 and others. However it is not too bad. I think that Nissan wanted to make a body that was extremely rigid and could be used on multiple platforms (i.e. FX45, G35C, etc.) I would have liked to see the weight around 3000-3100lbs. I think some of the extra pork is crash protection, large wheels, thick glass, and lots of interior goodies. For sure this is not a stripped down car, it has plenty of creature comforts and such. The Z did get very good crash test rating so the extra weight pays off in the body.

2. Power plant. Well it is a special power plant. Yes the block is essentially the same but the engine has been extensively tuned to produce more HP and torque. If you look at most car companies you will find the same type of thing going on. Toyota Supra inline 6 was used in their trucks, BMW shares their engines and tunes them for each application, even the Subaru and Mitsubishi engines are used in various forms across multiple platforms. I think the better question would be to ask why doesn't the Z have more power? COST. The goal was to produce a low cost true blue sports car and they succeeded. Adding a turbo or tossing in a V8 would have pushed the car over $40 and I could not afford to buy one like many others. As it is you can buy a darn well equiped enthusiast version for less than $30k. Screamin deal.

Personally I would have a harder time paying $30-35K for a WRX or EVO. They just seem too much like econo boxes with lots of power. I know that is not fair but when you compare the Z to these cars the Z has much more luxury and tech features in it to make everyday life with the Z enjoyable.

Don't forget the WRX and EVO get screamin 0-60 times due to AWD. But take them from a roll or on the race track and things change a bit where bottom end torque come more into play.

3. What car will be the faster? Whomever spends the most money. In "semi stock" form the turbos will be easier and cheaper to make fast. However if you add low compression pistons and turbo to the Z watch out. The bigger displacement engine with forced induction nearly always wins unless there is some major design flaw in the power train that can handle the power or be upgraded.

ok that my $0.02

 

LMFAO, are you serious?

 

my comment about taste was kind of a joke..... but really can you even compare the appearance of the Z to the sti and evo. just doesn't look as good in my book. I'm not saying the sti and evo are bad cars... on the contrary. I feel they are just a glimpse of what is coming on to our roads. The Z on the other hand feels like it could be a classic design. My biased opinion though

 

the EVO in this country looks a little pep-boys style, yes. But the STI while still a hopped up economyish car, does look serious. It may not be a super looker but it was more function over form.

 

The STI and the EVO are much quicker cars, plain and simple. However the people that would buy those cars, are very different then those who would buy a Z. If your looking for a car that's all about performance, don't buy the Z. I for one, wouldn't be caught dead in one of those 2 cars. They are ugly little boxes, FULL of power. I get more looks in one day from driving the Z, then you will get in a lifetime over those cars. Not to mention there are enough toys inside to make any drive, a fun one. Oh, it has a few ponies to plant you in your seat. It's all about taste, 10 years ago when I was 16, I would have jumped on the EVO, but now, forget it.

 

ask import life, I believe he is the one whos Z is going to undergo a custom TT workup for 17000$ bringing him to 800-1000HP. that is my source, and my reasoning, if he lied, owell, but I dont think he did. Im sure you can read all about his car when its done.

and no, its not a supra, its a 3.5liter engine, not 3.2, it also has 287hp NA compared to supras 220hp NA version, oh and it weighs about 200lbs less, and can handle significantly better. thanks for pointing that out. supra was and is an incredable car, with massive performance and potential, but that doesnt change the fact that the engine is from the early 90s. meaning the Z atleast has the potential for more power than even the supra, tho of course it will not be as easily tapped. any questions of whether a new engine can make more hp than an old one, ask the guy that built a 1500hp acura 3.2L V6 TT motor.

and evo and STI are right next to the Z in hp and performance from anything but a stop. that is the truth, not opinion, Id take them both on at a roll, and I bet I dont fall back to more than their bumper. from a stop, I wouldnt mess with their AWD potential, but if its so great, explain why F1, and nascar doesnt use it? only some very limited classes of lemans racing uses 4wd cars, and rally racing.

I dont think the Z is the best fastest car out there, I know that a sti or evo could beat me in any form of race, tho I dont think its by the buslengths that magazines would like us to believe. I also think that with 5grand into both cars, their lead would only lenthen. but 10grand, we come closer, 15, even closer, and 20, we are ahead and pulling strong. the Z is not the out of the box winner, no way. but it will always have displacement, and there is no replacement for displacement.

 

You said it!

Although the Evo and Sti are both superior in the 0-60 and quarter mile and they are both excellent cars. However, I am not sure how much more a 2.0 litre and a 2.5 litre that are boosted to 18 psi can take. On the other hand, I'd like to see a Z with 354rwhp (claimed) by Greddy's Twin Turbo go up against either of those cars.

Plus I'd rather be seen in a smooth sexy car like the Z than something than came out of the fast and the furious. (just my bias opinion)

 

it's not a matter of how new the engine is...it's how the engine is built. everyone knows the potential of the supra block with stock internals. compared to that, the VQ engine doesn't seem to be as easy to modify. sure, it's a nice engine, but upside doesn't seem as bright.

 

nope, the 2jz was bullet proof, solid engine through and through, but I dont think it had any notion of variable timing or anything like that. which would give the 3.5vq an edge, tho it will undoubtably be far more difficult(read as: more expensive) to tap that hp.

but its there just the same. the 3.5vq is the first of a new generation of sports car engines. the new rotory will be one, and the new honda S2200 that I hear of, if it does indeed exist will be another. Im sure toyota will toss its hat into the ring as well.

one thing is for sure, wrx has 227hp from a turbo charged I4. with the same displacement N/A the rsx is only 27hp behind. hell even dodge managed to pull around 270hp out of its turbo I4. just showing that the build and hp from the subby and evo are not some sort of ungodly engine builds. their just a new notion of factory modified sports sedans. a notion that has not ever been tried in quite this way before. not a bad idea, infact a brilliant idea.

 

Here's my stab at answering your questions:

1. As has been stated before, the FM platform is used across a wide range of vehicles, from a sportscar to an SUV. Also, the sportscar was planned from the start to be a convertible, so extra bracing was added from the outset. The Z already has underbody frame reinforcements, and the shock braces on the front and rear. With that said, 3200 lbs is not too much heavier than many of the other cars in its class, but it would have been nice if it were a bit lighter.

2. Nissan was saved from bankruptcy by Renault, and an immediate step towards cost savings was to begin standardizing on a few platforms and engines to reduce costs. Nissan now has the 2.5 liter 4, 3.5 V6, 4.5 V8, and the 5.X V8 that will be in their full size truck. The 2.5 liter four is used in the sentra, sentra ser, and altima, and the 4.5 is used in muliple vehicles as well, so it's not surprising that the 3.5 is shared. Practically every car manufacturer does this. I personally would rather have a 280 HP VQ35 in a 30K car, than a 350 HP special motor in a 50K car. Now, if we could just get that 350 HP motor into a 30K car I'd be satisfied.

3. STI and EVO will have excellent aftermarked support, and will be easy to gain <75HP compared to the Z. I think that once you start trying to add >100HP, the benefits of the larger Z engine will start to show. Basically, you are looking at at least 5K to add about 75HP to the Z (except for nitrous). I'm guessing that it would be quite a bit cheaper to get that in either the STI or EVO, but I don't know how far those cars are pushed already.

Since the Z was as fast around the racetrack as the 911, and M3, I don't think it will be too far behind the STI or EVO, but I don't know for sure. All the cars are damn fun, though.

-D'oh!

 

Thank you all for responding.
I have a few more questions:

What do you mean that the engine block is the same but the engine is not the same?

I thought importlife was re-building the engine almost completely with stronger components for turbo charging. I would believe for 17-20k you could just buy a supra engine or a rb26dett and make that go 800hp - 1000hp.

Is he re-building the engine completely?

Are their any examples of the VQ35DE being tuned right now from any aftermarket tuners?
(I know about top secret )

I hope in a few years when i plan to mod i can make my 350Z to about 400hp N/A or with minimal turbo lag, I would want to spend anywhere from 5-7k not 17k, do you guys believe it will be possible to do so in the future?
I plan to autox as much as possible with this car in the next few years that’s where all my questions are coming from thx for your help!

 

for your purposes I would reccomend going the supercharged route, stillen just released theres, not sure of the price, but Id guess around 5000$ give or take a grand. they are boasting 390hp at the crank(estimated) I think it was like 350 to the wheels? memory fails me.

that is stock internals.