The Z is more eyecatching right now because it is newer on the market. Wait 1 to 2 more years, and I'm sure we'll see many more Z than M3's. Once that happens, the M3 will regain it's eye-candy superiority. In fact, I think I see more Z's now than I see the latest generation of M3's!?!?

Because I'm a engineering grunt, I look at the best bang for the buck that I can find, so the Z wins bar none. If I made quarter mil per year as a sales executive, and needed an image and brand reputation (but still wanted performance), I would have gone with a M3 convertible. Go figure...the amount of disposable income sure changes many things.

As for the Boxster S, magazine tests state lateral acceleration at 0.93g, whereas the Z gets 0.88g. Now, I don't know what and how exactly a 200ft skidpad tests, but to me, it seems like it indicates the Boxster "may" be designed to handle more centrifugal force in a controlled setting, which boils down to its ability to take corners at higher speeds. The EVO8 gets 0.98g, and that probably explains why it gets phenominal remarks on handling though twisties. Anyone care to explain the how skidpad test are performed and measured?

 

I agree that maybe in 2 yrs the curb appeal will have diminished more. But even then the M3 will be hard for many people to distinguish from a rehular 3-series making it still less noticable in my eyes.

 

I think one thing ppl are overlooking is the fact that you can by a Z for $27,000 and drop in some new tires, bolt-ons, suspension and other mods to bring down the weight a bit. Then compare these cars. You simply have to compare apples to apples and one way to do that is to use dollars spent. When you pay more for a Boxster, BMW and even the S2K is more than an enthusiast Z, then bring the Z up closer to their price points with a few aftermarket alterations, the picture becomes very clear in my mind. The Z with new tread and suspension will handle the twisties so much better, plus with the added power from an exhaust and lets say crawford plenum, you will pull away from the others with ease. When you compare cars as "stock" it really doesn't mean a whole lot if the price differences are significant. I think the Z starts with the best platform and price, then allows you to make it want you want.

 

m3 would be more eye catching if it didn't share so much of its exterior with the entire 3-series. it doesn't stand out to me until i see those little slits on the side. what i'm most curious about of all these rankings is 350z vs evo vs sti from a roll. 5mph, 60mph.

 

i say for the twistys and the strait the only cars are the s2k and the z. in a strait ( with equal drivers they are pretty much even, slight advantage to the z) on the twistys they are also even. the extend on the topic further in the twistys; the s2k can take turns a bit better than the z. but with the 9,000 rpm range they will have to constently down shift and not have as much power(torque) comeing out of the apex. the z is not as nimble but the handling is there and with all the low end torque will eat the s2k out of the turn. the boxter is ugly in my opinion and does not have the power or handling to keep up(not the s verison) , i.e. refer to the best motoring video. The Sti is deff a faster car from a stand. up high we might be a bit closer. the Evo is not as fast as it was suposed to be before it was realesed. i have seen evos run constent 14's at the track. on the street the evo will prob pull from the stand but the z will catch up. around the twistys the evo and sti will have an advantage , but it also depends on the road and road conditions.

 

I think a lot of people are over estimating the abilities of the STi & EVO 8 in the corners. These cars have a longer wheel base and higher curb weight compared to the S2K, but similar to the Z.
The STi suffers from understeer in the corners, I am not as familiar with the EVO 8, so I cannot comment.
Anyways I think you should give the Z & S2K more respect in that category

 

Compared to most of you guys on here I know diddly-squat about cars but I describe the Zzzz as 2/3s sport car & 1/3 American muscle car ( with 3/3s great looks.Ha!). The Zzz isn't as fast as some & not as good thru the twisties as others. But take power & twisties together & the Z does terrific.

By the way, if you compare the size of the Zzz (length, width, wheelbase, weight) the Zzzz is closest to a Vette.

 

I have tracked both an s2k and Evo8. Actually the first day I had my Evo8, after getting a litttle comfortable, I took an exit ramp at like 65 or 70 mph and I just starting laughing with a smile from ear to ear. My s2k would have slid off into the guardrail at that speed at that particular exit ramp's radius. The amount of grip in the turns in the Evo8 is sick. Plus with AWD you can plant the gas much earlier exiting a turn. If you lift a little in the turn, the car does not suddenly whip around, it just starts to rotate in a controlled manner. Once the car is where you want it you can plant the gas early and let the grip pull you out of the turn. If you enter the turn at the ideal speed and keep the gas planted, its amazing how much grip you can maintain in a flat turn too. The s2k handled well in quick transitions, but on a big road course that usually is not a large factor. In the s2k, the rear end could rotate very quickly, so I was always making adjustments to keep it inline. The other tough aspect of the s2k is keeping it above 6000 rpms. It took a lot of work and in some turns you just couldn't do it without slipping the clutch. It seemed the s2k would lose a lot of time to other cars climbing out of tight turns, especially when a big straight away followed. The suspension in the Evo is also a bit stiffer, not much. The brakes in the S2k I thought were excellent at the time. I was able to brake much later then many other cars on the track a gain what I lost in the straights. But then I got a taste of the Evo8's brakes and I just laughed when I braked after the front straight away, it was ridiculus. By the end of the HPDE school, I was just getting to the point where I was comforatble braking so late. I was hitting the brakes from about 130mph at the 300 ft sign entering turn 1. It was fun .

I got rid of the s2k because many tracks require SCCA approved rollbars for convertables. Any solution was going to be very costly both from the custom rollbar fabrication ($2k quote) and the fact that the interior had no room for one without drilling some big holes. Plus the bar still was not going to be 2 inches above my head with a helmet on while keeping the convertable top functional. So I looked into lowering the seat too, blah, blah, blah....you can see where that was going, so I dumped it and got an Evo8. I still miss the s2k, but the Evo8 is all business and I love it...

smanders

 

A few more comments on the Mustang Cobra would be appreciated. Almost bought one but went for the Z because it was a bit more more reasonable and I liked driving it more. Plus, after test driving the Cobra it was almost too fast for me.

Regarding the Cobra, the thing is a true American Muscle Car and very fast.

I am not an expert but it seems so many on this board ignore American Cars and I wonder why. For example, is the Cobra so different from the Z, BMW, EVO, etc. that there is no point in comparing.

If that is the case, the only thing I can think of is the Cobra handles so much worst and isn't as fun to drive.

Feedback from you folks would be appreciated.

 

I can tell you what I think about Mustangs....

First off. I live in Los Angeles. Mustang capital of the world. I see so many of them that I basically just lump them into the Honda Accord category (ok maybe not THAT bad). One day out of curiousity, I took out the time to count the number of Mustangs during my 17 mile commute home from work. I counted 23 of them. No joke. I think my next count will be 325i's or TT's. I expect about as many. Don't get me wrong, the Mustang is ok for being a Ford. I would never make payments for 5 years on a car everyone and their mom has. Reason #1 not to buy one.

The SVT Cobra is the only exception to what I said above. Only because it is a V8 with 390 supercharged horses. I've only seen one that I know of. The reason I noticed it was that it was Chrome Illusion blue with a hot babe driving it. For all I know I seen 100 more of them and never noticed. Since they basically look the same as the GT minus the little SVT emblem, they are easy to not pay attention to. Even with my window down, it sounded no meaner than a stock GT. Therefore my $35k car is mistaken all to often for a $20k model . Reason #2 not to buy one.

No offense to anyone, but I have never liked a single Ford product since 1979 when they decided to put a V-8 in an Escort and call it a Mustang. When I think "Ford", I think of my buddy's old '77 rust bucket pickup we used to cruise in as teens. If you all think the Z's interior is cheap, "have you seen Ford lately"? Now I did like my buddy's '64 1/2 until his mom totalled it. . Ford=outdated, old, rusty, etc. Reason #3 to avoid Mustang.

A large majority of the Mustang's I see are driven by women (usually atractive ones ) . I can't remember the last time I seen a V-6 coupe or convertible driven by a guy. Now this isn't bad because I can almost guarantee if I see no dual exhaust, I'll look over to see a girl. In fact, I make little bets in my head and I am correct almost all of the time. GT coupes are about 50/50 male/female with a good majority of the guys having a shaved head and/or a visible tatoo. Reason #4 not to buy one. I have long hair and no tatts so I sure as hell don't want other guys panting at me through the tint thinking I'm a chick.

I think the Z coupe is WAY heavy for being a 2-seater. I'm sure it is because of all the extra installed bracing. The SVT weighs almost a whopping 500 lbs more than the Z and the topless passing 600. The GT frame was built for comfort/convenience in mind, not performance. Even with the extra stiffening and wider tires the SVT has, she is still underneath a cheap "family car" and handles like one. Cars with body roll make me motion sick. This the the 5th and final reason not to buy in my book.

The reason TO buy a Cobra SVT is pure god-like accelleration from the last of the muscle cars. I'm sure with probably very inexpensive domestic mods, that sucker would easily crank over 500hp and do 11sec 1/4's. Even a Procharged Z wouldn't stand a chance.

So to me there is no comparison. Its 1 pro to 5 cons.

I can see the fire coming my way already from all the 'Stang owners.