dammit...its snowing and im at work!!
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Joined: Nov 2002
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From: The Nasty Nati (Cincinnati)
I was in MS last week for Thanksgiving. *ahhhhh*I miss that Lovely southern winter weather! 
now im back in Cincinnati....snow is in the forecast for tonight and tomorrow
I garaged the Z last night after i picked her up from her oil change. The Blazer is in the shop now, and I'll pick it up tomorrow sometime I guess.
now im back in Cincinnati....snow is in the forecast for tonight and tomorrow
I garaged the Z last night after i picked her up from her oil change. The Blazer is in the shop now, and I'll pick it up tomorrow sometime I guess.
Banned
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,996
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From: boston
Originally posted by Rxramon
I know how you guys feel... Its terrible outside!
Im going to have to contemplate rolling my windows up. Darn, I wore shorts and sandals to work….
Currently: 56º Fair
I know how you guys feel... Its terrible outside!
Im going to have to contemplate rolling my windows up. Darn, I wore shorts and sandals to work….
Currently: 56º Fair
hopefully the weather will be nice in dallas in a few weeks. i'll be there from the 22nd to the 28th!
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,308
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From: Somewhere...
Originally posted by djkern
it won't take them that long to do it all (especially if the stuff they are looking for isn't broken). but, it's definitely worth a try.
and the civic....it's my sisters. she lives in paris now...so, i'm driving it around. i have no idea what i'll do next year when she's back in the states (i guess get a beater!!). cause, i like driving the car...not SLEDDING!
it won't take them that long to do it all (especially if the stuff they are looking for isn't broken). but, it's definitely worth a try.
and the civic....it's my sisters. she lives in paris now...so, i'm driving it around. i have no idea what i'll do next year when she's back in the states (i guess get a beater!!). cause, i like driving the car...not SLEDDING!
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Joined: Jan 2003
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From: boston
Originally posted by CelticPride2
Looks like I put my Blizzaks on at just the right time....now if I could just find a way to mount a plow in the front I'd be in business.
Looks like I put my Blizzaks on at just the right time....now if I could just find a way to mount a plow in the front I'd be in business.
just put a serious drop on the car...get a fugly bumper...and you're in business!
Charter Member #40
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 312
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From: Seattle, WA
Strangely enough it seems that the two separate snow fronts are going to just "touch" Rochester, staying just South of I90, so we might be spared from the worst. Just watch out for the punk-asses driving Hummers, and you will be fine.
My driving tips:
In the snow, drive like a little-old lady and assume that everyone around you in a 2-3 Ton SUV is out to kill you.
Keep a GENEROUS following distance because even with snow tires there will be slippage, and ABS systems can let you roll further than you believe you will before stopping.
If an someone in an SUV/truck/ricer wants to pass you, then let them pass if safe and give them some room. Most likely you will seem that person flipped over in a ditch later on the day.
Driving in the winter is not a race for speed, it's a race to prevent having to pay your repair deductable.
My snow training tips:
Since it is snowing now, after the traffic jams are done, a good thing to do is to learn how to deal with the snow. Find an unplowed parking lot and see how fast/tight you can go in a circle to determine the limit of traction. Another good test is to find a long parking lot and do 0-40-0 MPH runs to get a feel for slippage during accelleration and decelleration. Of course check first to find any "hidden prizes" like concrete parking blocks fixed with steel poles and storm drains that dip down.
General thoughts:
The more traction the better. I think that if I could have found soft-compound snow-tires that were studdable, I would have purchased them instead of the Blizzaks.
The louder the snowtire the better. I have friends who find the "hum" of their snowtires very reassuring.
Specific thoughts on Blizzak WS-50's:
Commong belief:
Z's with RE-040's suck in the snow, and many have proven by example (crunch crunch) that better tires are needed. Blizzak WS-50's are what I chose to deal with the winter.
My winter-driving credentials:
I have driven both FWD and RWD vehicles (never AWD) in the Rochester/New England winters with and without snow tires since 1988 (except for the five years I was in Los Angeles). I have gone through two separate sets of Blizzaks (WS-15's and MZ-01's) on my previous car, and this is my first set of snows on my 350Z (WS-50's).
Test Conditions:
I performed testing on both real local roads and highways as well as parking-lots. In the cold on dry roads, the Blizzaks perform as expected with good traction. In packed snow, the WS-50's handled about as well as my old WS-15's, as the aggressive tire pattern kept the treads free of packed snow. There is still slippage, but the TCS and a steady right foot help keep things under control.
My biggest concern so-far has been transition snow. If you are driving on a dry road, suddenly a patch of drifting snow can blanket the roads. The change in traction has been enough to cause some lateral drift and set off the TCS system. Without something like wet to create slush, the powder snow seems the most slippery so-far. Neither the microcell compound flat nor the treads can get traction on the powder.
I haven't tried driving on pure ice yet.
We 350Z's have too-much power:
With the TCS turned-on I was still able to break the rear-end loose (just a bit) in the coldest weather. Without TCS enabled, the rear end is too-lively for my tastes except in the parking-lot tests. To drive in the winter with TCS turned-off is asking for an insurance rate adjustment. I have no idea how the SC-ed 350Z's will run in the winter even with snow tires.
Temperature considerations:
When the weather is 50 degrees plus, the WS-50's feel very soft and springy. This is very common with these studless snow tires, while it seems that the soft compounds can still maintain good grip, the tires flex quite a bit. That flex makes snow tires seem less "reponsive" in turns. When the temperature is low enough for the "Icy conditions" warning light, the WS-50's feel very good. In the cold weather, the snow tires behave more like regular passenger tires in warm weather.
A solution that I have used in the past with snowtires when travelling interstate when the temperature increases is to add 10+PSI to each tire to give it some firmness for the highway. Having driven my first set of snow tires through one summer, I can say for sure that these tires should not be driven in 80 degrees or higher. I still have a mental picture of a #2 pencil's eraser disintegrating when driving snow tires at high temperature.
For the reverse, if you do not have snow tires and are stuck in bad snow and unplowed roads, then you may consider dropping your tire pressure slightly to allow the stock tires to deform a little to get a little more "bite". I have found this deflation trick has allowed me to get a little more traction in some bad snow conditions when caught with summer tires installed. My FWD PGT would slide sideways at 5MPH when trying to go straight with the Goodyear Eagle Gatorbacks.
Things I still wonder about:
Does a limited slip differential help/hurt driving in snow?
If we assume a theoretical case, if the rear right wheel slips, power is transferred to the left rear wheel via our viscuous LSD.
If you are at a stoplight trying to accelerate, then the LSD will help keep the car going forward straight. If stopped at an intersection while making a left turn in good weather, this is a great feature to ensure that power is applied to help you get out of the way of an incoming truck.
What happens when you are driving on a curve under less-than optimal conditions? If we are making a sweeping curve going to the left, the right side of the car has to travel a little further than the left side of the car. With a LSD, the difference in speed might lead to additional power applied to the inside left rear wheel. If the outside right-rear wheel lost traction due to a patch of ice, additional power would be given to the left-rear wheel.
What if the surface under the left-rear wheel is not optimal. You now have a car with one outside rear wheel without traction, but now additional power is being directed to the inside rear-wheel that is spinning slower. With 1/2 load the left-rear wheel will maintain the contact with the road but with 3/4 or more of the load, perhaps that same wheel will lose traction as well. At this point both wheels could lose traction and both of the rear wheels would spin fast enough to break forces related to static/kinetic friction. If you had a standard rear differential, then only one wheel would be spinning aimlessly while the other would continue to track the correct path of the car (matching the non-powered front wheels).
Maybe I will sit down and go through the physics equations to figure this one out later, but hopefully someone has a good answer regarding the LSD.
My driving tips:
In the snow, drive like a little-old lady and assume that everyone around you in a 2-3 Ton SUV is out to kill you.
Keep a GENEROUS following distance because even with snow tires there will be slippage, and ABS systems can let you roll further than you believe you will before stopping.
If an someone in an SUV/truck/ricer wants to pass you, then let them pass if safe and give them some room. Most likely you will seem that person flipped over in a ditch later on the day.
Driving in the winter is not a race for speed, it's a race to prevent having to pay your repair deductable.
My snow training tips:
Since it is snowing now, after the traffic jams are done, a good thing to do is to learn how to deal with the snow. Find an unplowed parking lot and see how fast/tight you can go in a circle to determine the limit of traction. Another good test is to find a long parking lot and do 0-40-0 MPH runs to get a feel for slippage during accelleration and decelleration. Of course check first to find any "hidden prizes" like concrete parking blocks fixed with steel poles and storm drains that dip down.
General thoughts:
The more traction the better. I think that if I could have found soft-compound snow-tires that were studdable, I would have purchased them instead of the Blizzaks.
The louder the snowtire the better. I have friends who find the "hum" of their snowtires very reassuring.
Specific thoughts on Blizzak WS-50's:
Commong belief:
Z's with RE-040's suck in the snow, and many have proven by example (crunch crunch) that better tires are needed. Blizzak WS-50's are what I chose to deal with the winter.
My winter-driving credentials:
I have driven both FWD and RWD vehicles (never AWD) in the Rochester/New England winters with and without snow tires since 1988 (except for the five years I was in Los Angeles). I have gone through two separate sets of Blizzaks (WS-15's and MZ-01's) on my previous car, and this is my first set of snows on my 350Z (WS-50's).
Test Conditions:
I performed testing on both real local roads and highways as well as parking-lots. In the cold on dry roads, the Blizzaks perform as expected with good traction. In packed snow, the WS-50's handled about as well as my old WS-15's, as the aggressive tire pattern kept the treads free of packed snow. There is still slippage, but the TCS and a steady right foot help keep things under control.
My biggest concern so-far has been transition snow. If you are driving on a dry road, suddenly a patch of drifting snow can blanket the roads. The change in traction has been enough to cause some lateral drift and set off the TCS system. Without something like wet to create slush, the powder snow seems the most slippery so-far. Neither the microcell compound flat nor the treads can get traction on the powder.
I haven't tried driving on pure ice yet.
We 350Z's have too-much power:
With the TCS turned-on I was still able to break the rear-end loose (just a bit) in the coldest weather. Without TCS enabled, the rear end is too-lively for my tastes except in the parking-lot tests.
To drive in the winter with TCS turned-off is asking for an insurance rate adjustment. I have no idea how the SC-ed 350Z's will run in the winter even with snow tires. Temperature considerations:
When the weather is 50 degrees plus, the WS-50's feel very soft and springy. This is very common with these studless snow tires, while it seems that the soft compounds can still maintain good grip, the tires flex quite a bit. That flex makes snow tires seem less "reponsive" in turns. When the temperature is low enough for the "Icy conditions" warning light, the WS-50's feel very good. In the cold weather, the snow tires behave more like regular passenger tires in warm weather.
A solution that I have used in the past with snowtires when travelling interstate when the temperature increases is to add 10+PSI to each tire to give it some firmness for the highway. Having driven my first set of snow tires through one summer, I can say for sure that these tires should not be driven in 80 degrees or higher. I still have a mental picture of a #2 pencil's eraser disintegrating when driving snow tires at high temperature.
For the reverse, if you do not have snow tires and are stuck in bad snow and unplowed roads, then you may consider dropping your tire pressure slightly to allow the stock tires to deform a little to get a little more "bite". I have found this deflation trick has allowed me to get a little more traction in some bad snow conditions when caught with summer tires installed. My FWD PGT would slide sideways at 5MPH when trying to go straight with the Goodyear Eagle Gatorbacks.
Things I still wonder about:
Does a limited slip differential help/hurt driving in snow?
If we assume a theoretical case, if the rear right wheel slips, power is transferred to the left rear wheel via our viscuous LSD.
If you are at a stoplight trying to accelerate, then the LSD will help keep the car going forward straight. If stopped at an intersection while making a left turn in good weather, this is a great feature to ensure that power is applied to help you get out of the way of an incoming truck.
What happens when you are driving on a curve under less-than optimal conditions? If we are making a sweeping curve going to the left, the right side of the car has to travel a little further than the left side of the car. With a LSD, the difference in speed might lead to additional power applied to the inside left rear wheel. If the outside right-rear wheel lost traction due to a patch of ice, additional power would be given to the left-rear wheel.
What if the surface under the left-rear wheel is not optimal. You now have a car with one outside rear wheel without traction, but now additional power is being directed to the inside rear-wheel that is spinning slower. With 1/2 load the left-rear wheel will maintain the contact with the road but with 3/4 or more of the load, perhaps that same wheel will lose traction as well. At this point both wheels could lose traction and both of the rear wheels would spin fast enough to break forces related to static/kinetic friction. If you had a standard rear differential, then only one wheel would be spinning aimlessly while the other would continue to track the correct path of the car (matching the non-powered front wheels).
Maybe I will sit down and go through the physics equations to figure this one out later, but hopefully someone has a good answer regarding the LSD.
Charter Member #45
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 578
Likes: 0
From: Austin, TX
HEUGE want a publisher? Haha J/k, good thanks for sharing.....
I had the chance of driving on snow in the Z last year...
It rained and then froze over and there was a 3-5 inch layer of ice coating parts of austin... The night before it rained/iced, it snowed... I took the exit ramp and remained on the feeders... I saw this old lady go down an overpass like it was a slide... hope she was wearing her depends!
I have a middle school right across from me and did what Heuge suggested... tested how the Z would handle on the icey roads. Granted the parking lot had not been driven on and this was solid ice...... It was pretty bad with the BS tires. I would slip at 2000, 3000 easy. Too much torque!
Be very careful! If it takes you an hour at 20 mph to get home versus 20 minutes going 40....atleast you will make it home in one piece. (down here when the weather gets bad, people go friggin crazy or friggin stupid)
Use your brains and you guys up north should be able to make it through OK... good luck.
I had the chance of driving on snow in the Z last year...
It rained and then froze over and there was a 3-5 inch layer of ice coating parts of austin... The night before it rained/iced, it snowed... I took the exit ramp and remained on the feeders... I saw this old lady go down an overpass like it was a slide... hope she was wearing her depends!
I have a middle school right across from me and did what Heuge suggested... tested how the Z would handle on the icey roads. Granted the parking lot had not been driven on and this was solid ice...... It was pretty bad with the BS tires. I would slip at 2000, 3000 easy. Too much torque!
Be very careful! If it takes you an hour at 20 mph to get home versus 20 minutes going 40....atleast you will make it home in one piece. (down here when the weather gets bad, people go friggin crazy or friggin stupid)
Use your brains and you guys up north should be able to make it through OK... good luck.
Last edited by Rxramon; Dec 5, 2003 at 01:03 PM.
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 227
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From: Cincinnati, OH
Has anyone modded their Z with a snow plow attachment??
Can you get one with the Z logo prominent on the blade??
Ya'll should do what I do....STAY HOME in the bad weather!! Wait a sec....I'm retired, I stay home alla time!
Can you get one with the Z logo prominent on the blade??
Ya'll should do what I do....STAY HOME in the bad weather!! Wait a sec....I'm retired, I stay home alla time!
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 407
Likes: 0
From: NY, NY
Re: .....
Originally posted by xjerseyzfinestx
woah what a relief it is to get home ... have my car parked in the driveway ..its not going to move..i dont have a garage or car cover..but its not that serious...anyways i was on rt 80 doing about 40...wow thank god im going to pick up my truck in an hour...the z is terrible in snow...i was sliding all over the place...i acutally saw about 4 accidents on rt 80... so i really didint have to get passed 20 .. took me about 50 min to get home...im going to get the z car cover this week..to all my fellow z members...if you do not have a truck or beater.. GET ONE!
woah what a relief it is to get home ... have my car parked in the driveway ..its not going to move..i dont have a garage or car cover..but its not that serious...anyways i was on rt 80 doing about 40...wow thank god im going to pick up my truck in an hour...the z is terrible in snow...i was sliding all over the place...i acutally saw about 4 accidents on rt 80... so i really didint have to get passed 20
.. took me about 50 min to get home...im going to get the z car cover this week..to all my fellow z members...if you do not have a truck or beater.. GET ONE!
Anyway, I almost made it home (Manhattan) but ended up getting completely stuck on a slight uphil about 10 blocks from my warm underground garage. The Kumho Ecsta MX are not good snow tires with about 1/4 tread left!
Anyway, I ended up leaving my car street parked (legally) 10 blocks from my place. I guess I'll pick it up whenever this crap ends.
Jason
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 131
Likes: 0
From: South Florida
Originally posted by Rxramon
I know how you guys feel... Its terrible outside!
Im going to have to contemplate rolling my windows up. Darn, I wore shorts and sandals to work….
Currently: 56º Fair
I know how you guys feel... Its terrible outside!
Im going to have to contemplate rolling my windows up. Darn, I wore shorts and sandals to work….
Currently: 56º Fair
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,527
Likes: 0
From: The Nasty Nati (Cincinnati)
Originally posted by Hank Scorpio
Thankfully, I was able to wear my sandals today, but I still had to wear a sweater...
59 and windy...damn I can't wait for this cold weather to go away.
Thankfully, I was able to wear my sandals today, but I still had to wear a sweater...
59 and windy...damn I can't wait for this cold weather to go away.
Registered User
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 116
Likes: 0
From: Long Island, NY
Had to Tow my Z
I had to have my car towed, I was planning to leave work before the snow but I made the stupid mistake of getting stuck in adiscussion.
I've 22,000 miles on my stock tires so they are already in really bad shape and I could not get winter tires. I gave up after about 4 miles from work, I called for a flat bed and had them tow it to my friends Apartment parking lot nearby for $60
Drive safe everyone.
I've 22,000 miles on my stock tires so they are already in really bad shape and I could not get winter tires. I gave up after about 4 miles from work, I called for a flat bed and had them tow it to my friends Apartment parking lot nearby for $60
Drive safe everyone.
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 393
Likes: 0
From: NEW JERSEY
Re: Re: .....
Originally posted by Jason Bourne
Dude, I saw a blue 350z on rt 80 in the local lanes headed towards GWB around 3:15Pm, was that you?
Anyway, I almost made it home (Manhattan) but ended up getting completely stuck on a slight uphil about 10 blocks from my warm underground garage. The Kumho Ecsta MX are not good snow tires with about 1/4 tread left!
Anyway, I ended up leaving my car street parked (legally) 10 blocks from my place. I guess I'll pick it up whenever this crap ends.
Jason
Dude, I saw a blue 350z on rt 80 in the local lanes headed towards GWB around 3:15Pm, was that you?
Anyway, I almost made it home (Manhattan) but ended up getting completely stuck on a slight uphil about 10 blocks from my warm underground garage. The Kumho Ecsta MX are not good snow tires with about 1/4 tread left!
Anyway, I ended up leaving my car street parked (legally) 10 blocks from my place. I guess I'll pick it up whenever this crap ends.
Jason
..yea
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,614
Likes: 0
From: BRONX NY
I had my car for over year so i know the snow perils
however todaY I headed to the bank to make a deposit just as it started to snow thought id beat it.
well i diddent took me 30 min to go 4 miles
then i got stuck at the base of the hill to my house i could actully see my house but my car would go nowhere even with 4 kids pushing.
to top it all of i actully RAN OUT OF GAS spending 20min trying to get free.
finally i had my friend tow me out with a rope up the hill to my driveway. "the tow hook works great"
THE GUYS AT BRIDGESTONE SHOULD BE STRUNG UP THEN SHOT.
THESE TIRES SUCK IN THE SNOW THEY SUCK IN THE RAIN IN FACT UNLESS YOU LIVE IN THE DESERT THEY SUCK IN THE DRY ALSO.
BRIDGSTONE LICKS *** "FIRESTONES IN DISGUISE THE ONLY TIRE IN THE WORLD WHERE THE FUC%ING TREADS COME OFF
however todaY I headed to the bank to make a deposit just as it started to snow thought id beat it.
well i diddent took me 30 min to go 4 miles
then i got stuck at the base of the hill to my house i could actully see my house but my car would go nowhere even with 4 kids pushing.
to top it all of i actully RAN OUT OF GAS spending 20min trying to get free.
finally i had my friend tow me out with a rope up the hill to my driveway. "the tow hook works great"
THE GUYS AT BRIDGESTONE SHOULD BE STRUNG UP THEN SHOT.
THESE TIRES SUCK IN THE SNOW THEY SUCK IN THE RAIN IN FACT UNLESS YOU LIVE IN THE DESERT THEY SUCK IN THE DRY ALSO.
BRIDGSTONE LICKS *** "FIRESTONES IN DISGUISE THE ONLY TIRE IN THE WORLD WHERE THE FUC%ING TREADS COME OFF
D A M N......the snow we were supposed to get was only rain!
I spent a sh*tload on my LM-22's and couldn't USE them!
My suggestion....buy snow tires & rims, it will guarantee it won't snow!
Drive SMART right coasters!
I spent a sh*tload on my LM-22's and couldn't USE them! My suggestion....buy snow tires & rims, it will guarantee it won't snow!
Drive SMART right coasters!
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 971
Likes: 0
From: South Bay, CA
Originally posted by Rxramon
I know how you guys feel... Its terrible outside!
Im going to have to contemplate rolling my windows up. Darn, I wore shorts and sandals to work….
Currently: 56º Fair
I know how you guys feel... Its terrible outside!
Im going to have to contemplate rolling my windows up. Darn, I wore shorts and sandals to work….
Currently: 56º Fair
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 407
Likes: 0
From: NY, NY
Re: Re: Re: .....
Originally posted by xjerseyzfinestx
..yea
..yea
Btw, I have a Silverstone Enthusiast
Jason