I have my 350Z gutted, and I'm installing a new sound system (original non-Bose...booo). I have a Sony XAV-70BT 2DIN DVD player going in the dash; I've removed the OEM Navigation system in favor of a retrofitted touch-screen Magellan 1700UM (already done).

I have a bunch of old components I intend to use for this build, but what I most need input on is which AMP/Speaker combination I should use. Here are the speakers/subs/amps I have:

1) 2 - old school MBQuart 6 1/2" separates (intended for rear fill in OEM location)

2) 2 - Massive CK-6 component set (intended for front soundstage in OEM locations, with slightly modified doors)

3) 1 - OLD SCHOOL a/d/s P4100 4 channel amp

4) 1 - Alpine MRV-F450 (which is intended for my boat, but could be used in this project)

5) 1 - OLD SCHOOL a/d/s P240 2 channel amp

6) 1 - Alpine OLD SCHOOL 3548 2 channel amp

I have two subs, both in stealth boxes intended for the OEM Bose subwoofer location(s): One Polk MM 10" and One Phoenix Gold XMAX 10". I intend to use both cubbies available to me in the 350Z (behind the seats), because I can fit the amp(s) under the front seats.

What do posters think is the best combination of amps to use to best power the system? Options range from fully powering all 4 6 1/2" locations off the amps, to powering the rears for fill only (off the deck), and either bridging one of the amps for the fronts and running 2 channels for the 2 subs - to running the subs in parallel, etc.

I do have questions on the best configuration for these single voice coil subs, and what the AMPs would need to power them if I wire both to one AMP.

Specs on the AMPS:

a/d/s P4100: 4x100 or 2x350 (into 4ohms) <---dunno if that's peak or RMS, but I assume peak
Alpine MRV-F450 (4x50 + 1x200 (into 4ohms) <---RMS
a/d/s P240 2x40
Alpine 3548 2x40

I also have an old school Rockford-Fosgate 2 channel that is rated similarly, but I'd have to find allen screw wire terminals for it (all missing but one).

I'm going back and forth on this. The quality of the 4 channel a/d/s amp seems best (best specs), and this is a small cabin car, and I'm not looking for incredible sound, just the best I can achieve for the components I have.

I was thinking that I would run the Massive component set off of 2 channels of that amp, bridge the other two channels (350W) and run the 2-10" subs in parallel. That would save the Alpine amp for my boat, which I prefer, and only require 1 amp for the Z.

I'm not sure if I can bridge channels 3-4 on the a/d/s and leave channels 1-2 for the front components, though I'd think I could. I'd then run the rears for fill off the XAV-72BT directly.

Does anyone have any better idea?

Thanks! <!-- / message -->

 

Zzzzz

 

I'll say. I guess it was an unfair question - you'd have to know a lot about these amps.

 

You can't go wrong with any old school Alpine or ADS . I find it kind of odd that you have some pretty decent gear , but you are asking what amps to use and how to parallel wire two subwoofers . Please do not use two different subwoofers in your install , use one or the other or try to find a matching one for either one that you already have . I also would not use a component set for rear fill as a 2-way set of coaxials are more than enough . I would use the Alpine 5 channel to run your entire system , this would be the easiest solution for you(no distribution blocks , etc) . You can not run 2ohm mono on any of the 2 channel amps or the 4 channel , the amps will shut down and eventually quit working all together . You can use that setup (ADS 4 Channel) if you only use 1 of your 10's . channels 1-2 for front stage , channels 3-4 bridged to one 4 ohm 10(4 ohm mono) and rear speakers off decks power .

 

Thanks for the response - I think you misunderstood some things.

I have had much of this equipment for a very long time; I've been out of the car audio scene for nearly 20 years now, and literally cannot remember most of what I once knew about it. I've been driving my Z since new (2003) with the crappy stock system, and since the car is still in great shape, I decided I had enough of that.

I picked up a couple of extra components to supplement what I already had (the Sony head unit; WickedCAS box stealth w/Polk 10" in it (got a great deal on it, but only after I had bought that black MDF box for the Phoenix Gold Sub I already had; the Massive components).

I am not running a component set for rear fill. I'm using MBQuart 6 1/2" separates in the OEM location - from my old Z32. I'm using the Massive component sets for the front doors; they're supposed to be fantastic - and I want to make sure I drive them sufficiently.

That said: you're running two subs in your own installation. That is similar to what I'm going to do: I have both boxes for both locations, and even though one is different than the other, there should be no reason to run different subs: in fact, they may complement each other (the Polk reaches lower; the Phoenix Gold hits harder in the 40hz-70hz range - the cone is carbon fiber). I wasn't asking how to wire subs parallel; I know how to do that. I'm only broaching the question because it would save me from using an additional amp - they would be 2ohms parallel, and the a/d/s is capable, but it's not advised (would shorten amp life) - but it depends upon the volume I pushed through it I would think.

If I ran them in series, it would be an 8ohm load, and I'd be concerned that I wouldn't get enough volume - but that may not be a bad thing, considering the downward firing configuration of these stealth boxes.

If I'm committed to running 2 subs, I think I'm wiring them on separate channels. That means I could still use the a/d/s p4100 powerplank and use channels 1-2 for the front components, and channels 3-4 for the subs - and use the head unit for the rear MBQuart fills.

I'm just concerned that I'm not pushing enough power to the subs to make them sound their best. Thoughts on that? Would I get a better result with 350w bridged into 2-10" subs for an 8 ohm load, or would I be better off with two channels pushing 100w each into 2-4ohm loads?

I think I know the answer: the latter.

Also, I suppose I could modify both boxes, and put the subs as you did: facing forward - but I think I'll wait on that until I prove to myself that downward firing is going to create too many rattles.

 

The other possibility is using the a/d/s and bridging 1-2 & 3-4 to power the subs and then using the small a/d/s to power the Massives - but I don't know how much power the Massives should get, and if I'm underpowering them with a 2-40w amp.

ETA:

Upon reading a bit, these Massive CK6 V components are beasts. They use 200wRMS or 400wPeak - and people are saying that they sound muddled if they're underpowered.

With that in mind, I'm going to dedicate the a/d/s P4100 amp to bridging 4 channels into 2 and run the Massives off that amp. Now I have to figure out what I want to do with powering the subs.

 

I am running my subs off a MONO amp that is 2 Ohm Stable . Your Ads's and Alpine are only 2 ohm stable in stereo , not bridged mono , you will smoke them in no time . Do you know why a 2 or 4 channel amp is only 2 ohm stable in stereo and not bridged mono ? I would gladly tell you . I don't want to go into detail about my car audio experience . Just trust me when I tell you that 2 different subs will not compliment each other , and it will look ghetto as hell . I would sell both your subs and buy 2 4 ohm dvc 10's . wire the coils in series and the subs in parallel for a 4 ohm load . Now you can bridge your ads to this load . Or you can run both current subs in stereo like you said , but your sacrificing alot of power loss .

 

You could also do it that way , and yes 40W Rms will power that component set just fine . Ads underated there amplifiers as well as alot of old school quality amplifiers , I would bet that amp is putting out closer to 60w Rms . I would still use the Alpine 5 channel. Ease of installation , more power to your rear speakers , etc . You can fade the rears down , but you could also unfade them for more volume . Sure beats cheesy Hu power .

 

Saying that the two subs will not complement each other is not an educated statement IMO. They will each be powered by different channels, and they won't even be visible: they're firing down. I'm aware of the capabilities of the a/d/s amp, and - right in the manual - it states that running 2ohm loads isn't advised, but it is doable. a/d/s recommends 3ohms for sustainability.

It's moot regardless. The subs will be on separate channels, and there is no way I believe that the two will not work together in the same car. I have had enough experience with sound systems over the years to know that that isn't true.

I have also collected enough information on Massive CK6 v5 to know that it needs more than 60 watts per channel to perform to its potential, so I'm going to power them with the a/d/s bridged, and see how it works out. I would far rather do that than spend unnecessarily on more subwoofers.

What I am going to do is run the rear fills on the a/d/s P240 powerplate, the fronts on the a/d/s p4100 powerplate, and get another amp to push the subs - on separate channels.
Thanks -

 

If I were in your place, here's what I would do:

I would use only the 4 channel a/d/s amp. I would run channels 1+2 to the Massive components up front, and bridge 3+4 to only the Polk MM 10. Personally, I wouldn't use rear fill, especially in a 2 seater. That being said, if you really wanted to, I'd suggest running the rear fill off the head unit's internal amp. Unless you're looking to wake up neighbors with the bass, I think you'd be quite happy with just the Polk MM pushed with the upper end of it's rated power handling. Judging by it's specs, it seems to like very small sealed boxes too.

 

1) In your OP , you stated you wanted to bridge two channels to your subs . I simply stated it is not advised to run different subs on the same channel . Will it work (Yes) but I would never use two different subs in any installation bridged or on 2 channels(Whether I could see them or not)the ghetto factor would drive me nuts .

2) Your willing to buy another Amp , but you won't buy two matching subs???? You already have enough amps , sell your two current subs and buy two matching 10"s . The difference will probably be a whopping $50.00 .

3)50-60w Rms of power from a (quality) amplifier will drive any component set out there , and do it quite well .

4) Don't know if you have a roadster or Hatchback . If you have a Hatchback , put your subs in the hatch area . The Srq and Wicked downfiring boxes sound like CHIT and they rattle the hell out of everything .

5) I realize in the end your going to do it your way , I'm just giving my .02 , after all you asked us for it .

 

I do appreciate your input; it helps me think this through. In my OP, I just threw out possibilities. The notion of bridging the amp to run subs in parallel was only to save the large Alpine amp for my boat; it's already being used there - but it is out at the moment as my boat is getting work done on it.

I'd like to hear more about this. I have run several subs off one channel in the past; I'm not sure why you see a problem with it.

This might be your sole objection, but it doesn't bother me. Neither the amps nor the subs will even be seen - unless I decide that the SRQ on one side and the WickedCAS box on the other truly do sound like crap, and I elect to modify the boxes and mount the subs firing forward into the cabin as you've done in your glove box modded subs.

I still need an amp for my boat. I would have to buy subs AND another amp if I did that - and I don't think I'm willing to do that. If I did want a matching set though, I'd just buy another Polk MM: I've heard good things about them (the other sub - the PG XMAX - is not available any more, and doesn't get quite as low as the Polk MM).

I would have thought so too, but this Massive CK6-V apparently needs more to truly sound fantastic. Are you familiar with this component set? 200wRMS; 400wMax - and I've now seen on several forums people who drove the set with 60-110w/channel and were disappointed - until they put 200+/channel to them.

I have a hatchback - and you may be right, but I am going to put the inner panels back together with foam-lined edges, and with foam blocks throughout, just to give them a chance. If they are that bad, I do not think WickedCAS would sell as many of these as they do. I don't want anything in the hatch: I need the room.

Yep. Thanks!

 

Thanks for your input - your suggestion is a good one, and being strongly considered. It seems like the Polk MM is a very good match for the WickedCAS box @ about .75ft³ - but we'll see.

I remember what the Phoenix Gold XMAX sounded like in my old Z in a box in the rear hatch. It was very powerful, but didn't hit the low notes that I like. I was thinking if I run it in the other spot off another channel, I could cut off response frequencies outside of its wheelhouse, because in its wheelhouse, few subs were better.

Decisions, decisions.

 

1) Why would you have to buy another amp if you bought Matching subs . You already have two ADS amps . You could do everything with the one 4 channel . You would need to either get 2 8ohm subs or 2 4 ohm dual voice coil subs .

2) The reason wicked sells so many boxes is because how many options are there for a Roadster ? You can't listen to it before you buy it unless you know someone that has one . In this case , then you really would not buy it. The Wicked box is made better than the Srq box , but they both sound like crap . A friend of mine had a wicked box in his roadster for all of 5 days before yanking it out and selling it . He let me do the same install to his roadster that I did to mine , I don't think he has wiped the grin off his face since .

3) You said you have been out of car audio for 20 years . But yet you've used mismatched subs in the past???? How old are you ? 26 years in the 12V business , the only people I've ever seen using mismatched subs are 18 year old kids that don't know any better . What if a guy wanted to use mismatched components for his front stage ?? What would you tell him ???

4) Some mismatched speakers can sound descent , but in alot of cases you will run into phase problems and terrible sound . Because of this it is a practice that is not recomended .

 

My thinking is that I wouldn't have enough power to drive the Massives to the level they need to be driven to optimize their performance (have a look at what they require to fully utilize their potential). I also do not think that ~150watts into each Polk MM is enough; same problem - but I could be wrong about that. The second a/d/s is small, and could only drive the rear fill IMO.

Possibly - but I think it's a function of space use more than anything else. It's what attracted me to the choice (and I got the MM/box combo for only around $250 IIRC).

Your configuration was my first thought - though I was going to build a permanent fiberglass box within the constraints of the space instead of sacrificing the glove box. The beauty of this is that I could easily convert both/either the WickedCAS or SRQ box into front firing by doing a bit of fab work.

Sure - think of them as separates. They could be tuned for different frequency responses, in fact. It's no different than a 4 piece component set, in fact: the carbon fibre cone of the PGXMAX lends itself nicely to frequency response/extremely tight response in the 70hz-200hz range; the Polk MM could be tuned below that level, and they could overlap. Sub response is a mono signal, so it isn't comparable to your comment about not advising disparate components on a front stage, which is a stereo signal split to sides.

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45.

I think you're somewhat close-minded on the topic, but that's ok. There's nothing wrong with using two different brands of subs in the same system. Each brand has its shortcomings, in fact; using 2 different types of subs (as these are) can be advantageous - and interesting, I think.

Not analogous, as I explained.

Phase problems? I'm not talking about wiring these out of phase; I'm talking about giving them each separate channels and tuning each of them independently. I doubt seriously that would sound terrible.

But the nice thing is I can experiment, and change it as I need to. I'll report what I find, including the very real possibility that it becomes a vibration nightmare. I would love to figure out a way to port sound to the cabin to avert much of the vibration and to brighten the sound, but I don't see a good way without putting some serious holes in places I'm not willing to cut - so I may end up modding the boxes to fire forward.

 

Never said anything about wiring them out of phase . Different Subwoofers have different phase characteristics and can cause cancelation . How many high end installs do you see that use mismatched subwoofers ? There is a reason for this . Heck sift through all the low. med , and high end installs just on this site and tell me how many you find . If you want to use mismatched subs in your install , then by all means go right ahead . It is your vehicle after all , It is just a practice that is not recomended .

 

I thought I'd briefly update my own thread.

I ended up using the two a/d/s amps, running rear MBQuarts with the small a/d/s and running the Massives and the Polk sub with the a/d/s P4100 plate amp, and the WickedCAS box in the stock location. It sounds fantastic. I don't have rattles; the bass is far more that satisfactory; I can't see clearly out of the rear view mirror when it is turned up.

I never even tried two subs in the car; I liked the glovebox location for the two amps. The only problem I have now is overheating with the amps when it is hot enough; I'm going to adjust the system with a in/out fan in the near future.