mchapman

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mchapman

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KY350 now you can use your rating scale against these tyres.

The charts are ranked from best to worse, top to bottom. If any one wants what they said about any of the tyres let me know.

KY350

Murray - I presume that the higher the number the better?

If I run 245/45/R17 on all 4 wheels, will I have any problems with TC or "slip" light coming on?

It would be ideal to be able to swap the same size fronts to rear to even out tread wear, but will this affect any of the electronics?

mchapman

iTrader: (1)

Yep thats right higher is better and the list in ranked as well, with the better at the top. And no you have the touring model which doesnt have VDC, so you dont have to worry about those things like the others do.

DavidM

The tyre tests are very handy for seeing how the tyres perfrorm .... but you need to remember that tyre performance is not only dependant on the tyre itself, but also the actual car. Afterall, some tyres work better on some cars than others, and vice versa. What works well on a softly sprong sedan will not necessarily work on a lighweight, stiff sport-car. What works on a FWD, will not necesarilly work the same on a RWD etc. Also, none of them will tell you how good the tyre will be when it has 10,000km on it, but only when new.

So what you need to do it take a look at the car that is being used, and see how that applies to you (or the car that you're trying to cater for). Though, that does not mean that a tyre that works on a car A, will not work on car B.

Also, don't get too swept up in the 'order' of results listed by Motor/Wheels. They do not use a progressive scale, and also they themselves are the 1st people to say that it's hard to get 100% clynical data and that there is some variance. What that means is that list all the tyres that seem to have 'close to best' results in at the categories important to you, and all of those should be a 'solid' perfoming tyre.

ps.
To get 30 - 40k km out of tyres on a car like this will be hard no matter what. Either you drive a lot on the freeway (ie. constant steed), or you need to get something with harder rubber (and hence sacrifce some grip).

High-perfromance tyres last 30,000km at best if you really baby them. 25,000 is a more realistic expectation. The mid-range perfromance tyres will get another 5,000km or so. Though, all of this depends on how you drive. I could not get much more than 20,000km out of my tyres on the S2000, nor the MR2 (with measly 117kW). And my father cannot get more than 25,000km out of the tyres on the HSV ... no matter what the make (though they're all high-perfromance tyres).

I can see you getting 30,000km ... maybe even 35,000km with something like Falken G'force ... they are pretty good tyre as a friend of mine has them on a S15 200SX and they lasted him that amount. Or Bridgestone G'grid2, or Falken Azenis 115ST. All these tyres are reasonably priced too.

KY350

Thanks for the input David.
My tyres will probably get to 25,000km before reaching the tread wear indicators, so if you consider the OEM Potenza a "high performance " tyre, then I suppose that pretty good, especially as I don't do a lot of highway driving.

I am now seriously considering putting in 245/45R17 tyres all around, so that I can swap the front and back wheels to increase tread life.
Can anyone advise if there will be any detrimental effects handling wise, by swapping my 17 x 7.5" front wheels, mounted with 245/45 rubber to the rear, which has a 17 x 8" wheel with 245/45 rubber? That is, will the skinnier wheel at the back effect handling, even though it has the same size rubber?

frosty

KY250 - are you sure that the wheels are different sizes F to R?

I may stand for correction, but the Track is 8'' front and rear (?)

FRIZZ

DavidM

Thanks for the input David.

np. My best sugestion (unless you got someone recomending something to you directly), is to look over the tyre-tests, and looks at the laptimes dry/wet only as that show how the tyre performs the best and most consistantly. I'd look over more than one tyre tst as the results are often different, even though the 'good' tyres always end up towards the top.

Then see how similar the car they use is to the one you're trying to get the tyres for. Important thing is that you don't want to buy a dud tyre ... as that is what you want to avoid. If you do that then no matter what tyres you get, they should perfrom reasonably well.

My tyres will probably get to 25,000km before reaching the tread wear indicators

That's not bad. In that case you should get another 5,000+ km out of the tyres that I suggested. Maybe even another 10,000km or more.

so if you consider the OEM Potenza a "high performance " tyre

I don't ;-) The tyre manufactures seem to though as they use 'high perfromance' description for the tyres that are about 2 levels from the top (ie. best grip/perfromance). Personally, I would say that 'high performance' tyres are the 'cream of the crop' and the likes of S02s, P-Zeros, ContiSPort2 and PilotSport (etc). S03s I'd class one level lower and the RE040 probably 1 level lower.

I am now seriously considering putting in 245/45R17 tyres all around, so that I can swap the front and back wheels to increase tread life.

That is what I will be doing when it comes time to replace my tyres ... but I'm doing it to gain more front grip. I have already done it with my spare set of wheels as my R-spec rubber (for the track) is 245 all around. Actually, the contact path is more similar to 255 - 265s. I had them on the track once so far.

Though, I have 18" OME wheels, which are 8" wide all around.

That is, will the skinnier wheel at the back effect handling, even though it has the same size rubber?

The front and rear wheels do not only have different width for you, but also different offset as far as I know. I can't see anything good coming out of putting those wheels at the back, but how detrimental it would be to the handling, I don't know. Maybe someone like Peter/Nathan will know better?

KY350

Thanks again David.

It appears that all the brands I look at only have a max load rating of 95 for a 245/45 tyre. Unfortunately, I need a 96 load rating for the rears, so it appears that I will have to stick with a 245/45 front and 255/45 rear as the rears are 96 lr or above.

Also, aside from balancing, I believe I should have the new wheels / tyres aligned. Are there some target numbers to align to and where do I find these? Perhaps the Z handbook?

mchapman

iTrader: (1)

Originally posted by DavidM
Personally, I would say that 'high performance' tyres are the 'cream of the crop' and the likes of S02s, P-Zeros, ContiSPort2 and PilotSport (etc). S03s I'd class one level lower and the RE040 probably 1 level lower.

Im assuming your grading on performance and I'd disagree with some of those choices. The S02s are the older model tyre and the S03 is Bridgestones new ultra high performance tyre.

Even in the test above they noted that the S03 were close behind the Pirelli in both wet and dry handling with the S03s better in wet braking. The dry track tester like them better than both the ones which ranked ahead of it overall. And the wet tester ranks it very close behind the Pirellis.

How have you come to your choices?

I wouldnt rate the RE040 a high performance tyre either, id move it down a few levels.

ottonove

I have used Bridgestone's S-01 and S-02 on my previous Porsche 993, when the tires are new, they're very very good. but once they've past 5000kms they turned very noisy and bumpy, and once they hit 10000kms, you'll have to start thinking what tires to get next.
I've went thur about 4 sets of Bridgestones when I had my 993, which has ~50000kms on the clock when I sold it.

mchapman

iTrader: (1)

They reckon they've addressed that with the S03s.

From Bridgestone about S03s:
"And, it keeps performance up as the tread wears down. Engineers have also reduced the noise factor in new and worn stages."

David mentioned ContiSport2 as a recommended tyre, but they are supposed to have an even worse tyrelife. He also mentioned S02 so I dont think he is grading on wear.

Interesting that you continued to use them Otto. Was that because you were never upgrading all four at once? Or you were happy with the performance of them new?

DavidM

Im assuming your grading on performance

Yep, grading on perfromance only. Wear is not the priority for in the tyres I listed, but at the same time, you will get roughly the same milage out of the lot of them.

...and I'd disagree with some of those choices. The S02s are the older model tyre and the S03 is Bridgestones new ultra high performance tyre.

True, the S03s are newer, but inferior (in terms of ultimate performance) to the S02s. S02s were arguably the best performance tyre around. S03s are at least a grade lower and more comaprable for the 1-level lower tyres. Just look around at how many performace cars fit the SO2s as OME tyres. Just of the top of my head:
- 911 GT3
- Boxtser
- Ferrari 575
- Jaguar XJ220

And now look who fits the S03s:
- RX8
- HSV (on 18" wheels)

That's about it. No high-perfromance manufacturer fits or offers the S03s on any of their cars. They did with S02s .... tehre has to be a reason for that. The reason is the tyre is not in the same performance league. Also S03 is about 2/3rd of the price of the S02s as they use a more 'mainstream' production/materials.

Does not mean that the S03 is not a good tyre. Actually they are a very good tyre when you include the price in the equation, but if untimate perfromance is your goal, then there's a lot of tyres that will be graded higher.

Even in the test above they noted that the S03 were close behind the Pirelli in both wet and dry handling with the S03s better in wet braking. The dry track tester like them better than both the ones which ranked ahead of it overall. And the wet tester ranks it very close behind the Pirellis.

Yes, they are a good tyre ... but relying on one tyre test on one particular car is not enough. Speak to the people who had both ... in particualar on the track.

How have you come to your choices?

I've had 4 sets of S02s, 2 sets of S03s, one set of ContiSport2 and one set of P-Zero Rosso, one set of Azenis RT215 (among other 'lesser' tyres). So mostly speaking from experience and experience of others. You can argue easily which one is better/worse from the other lot, but the S03 is clearly inferior. Even if you go to a tyre shop and ask, they'll more than likely tell you that the S02s is the superior tyre.

Most people who used to fit S02s had to go to another brand when it was discontinued in order to maintain the same level of 'performance'.

ps. It looks like RE070 and RE080 are the 'performance' flagship tyres for Bridgestone now. They are the ones getting fitted to premium perfromance cars.

David mentioned ContiSport2 as a recommended tyre, but they are supposed to have an even worse tyrelife.

I would not go by that as far as tyre wear goes. From my experience the S03s last (maybe 5000km) longer than the S02s, which last maybe 3000 - 4000km longer than the P-Zeros, which last about 7000km longer than Azenis RS. I'm expecting the ContiSport2 to last longer than P-Zeros (which wore quickly), but maybe not much better than S02s ... which I thought lasted pretty well. The S02s lasted me always good 5000km more than S01s and they had better grip not only when new, but also when old.

IMHO, the S02s has possibly the best grip when worn. Most tyres get very slippery when worn, but the S02s offered superb grip for me even when they had no thread left. That is in the dry ... for wet you need grooves.

ottonove

I continued to used Bridgestone coz there was no other tire that can compare to them at the time, they're simply the best, P-Zeros are not bad, but they need to be warmed up otherwise they'll crack.
Once I've tried Michelin Pilot Sport, I never look back, may be its a little dearer, but the performance is worth it

DavidM

S03 were close behind the Pirelli in both wet and dry handling with the S03s better in wet braking.

One more thing ... the P-Zero here is the "Nero" ... that's the bottom of the range P-Zero tyre. P-Zero is becoming a 'brand', not unlike "Potenza". The P-Zero "Roso" and "Giallo" are the P-Zero 'performance tyres'. From what I remember the "Nero" is a more a mainstream, comfortable and longer wearing version of those. Hence not as perfromance oriented and more directed at sedans than all out sports cars. Also it's cheaper than the othe rP-Zeros.

I continued to used Bridgestone coz there was no other tire that can compare to them at the time

Don't get me wrong ... the S03 is a very good tyre. I have no problems in gettiong them myself, in particluar because they are relatively cheap, and for that money they offer a lot of perfromance. I have no problem recomending them for any car. They are just not the best if you want to go on the track and set the quicket times .(ie. want the most grip) ... that does not mean that they are not good, just not as good in the untimate grip stakes as some others.

they're simply the best, P-Zeros are not bad, but they need to be warmed up otherwise they'll crack.

I wonder if the cracring problem is due to the pressures that you were running? I've had one set of the S03s crack(though that was around 20,000km) ... but I figured that was becasue they had too much pressure in them for their own liking. They seem to perform and behave better with a bit less (ie. 5psi less) pressure than the S02s or P-Zero Roso.

I have nor noticed any lack of grip in the P-Zero Rosos when cold, but I did notice the odd 'squeak' they used to make until they were about 1/2 worn. And also the speed at which they wore out ... noticably quicker than S02s, let alone S03s.

Once I've tried Michelin Pilot Sport, I never look back, may be its a little dearer, but the performance is worth it

I've never tried them, but they have to be a good tyre for Boxtser, 911, F360 and M3 to fit them as OME tyres. I like the look of the new PilotSport2 ... they are fitted OME to the new GT3.

How long did they last compare to the other tyres you've had?

ottonove

my current set of Pilot Sport lasted about 30000kms, at least double of what I'll get from the S01s and S02s that I've been using

mchapman

iTrader: (1)

David, You are speaking from experience after using both sets of tyres and this is reason enough for me to accept what your saying. I have had zero experience with S02s, and limited experience with the S03s. I was after ultimate performance in the beginning but had to move down 2 steps price wise, $700 odd for Pirelli, $650 for ContiSport, and $550 for S03. So as my aim was ultimate performance, price in the end played a larger part than I had planned.

True, the S03s are newer, but inferior (in terms of ultimate performance) to the S02s. S02s were arguably the best performance tyre around. S03s are at least a grade lower and more comaprable for the 1-level lower tyres. Just look around at how many performace cars fit the SO2s as OME tyres. Just of the top of my head:
- 911 GT3
- Boxtser
- Ferrari 575
- Jaguar XJ220

And now look who fits the S03s:
- RX8
- HSV (on 18" wheels)

As the '00 model S2000 had S02 as OE equipment i'll guess this is the car you were using them on? I personally dont mind chosing a tyre based on what manufacturers use on their cars, but i dont know how accurate this is in determining which is a good tyre. Especially when many other factors could come into their decisions.

There could also be agreements put in place between tyre and automotive manufacturers about what tyre will be sold with a car, and that agreement stays for the life of a car. If S03s werent available at that stage... I dont know this to be the case or not but it illustrates that there could be any number of things going into these decisions that were arent made aware of.

That's about it. No high-perfromance manufacturer fits or offers the S03s on any of their cars. They did with S02s .... tehre has to be a reason for that. The reason is the tyre is not in the same performance league.

You could draw some conslusions from this but if you could rely 100% on them? Otherwise more ultra performance cars would have them wouldnt they?(I know there are more that do but its not that large a number.)

Also S03 is about 2/3rd of the price of the S02s as they use a more 'mainstream' production/materials.

I dont know about the production/materials but they certainly use alot of different technologies(If you believe the info provided.) Where S02s dont seem to have half the technologies.

http://www.bridgestonetire.com/dpp/g...sproductid=227

Yes, they are a good tyre ... but relying on one tyre test on one particular car is not enough. Speak to the people who had both ... in particualar on the track.

I know just the guy.

ps. It looks like RE070 and RE080 are the 'performance' flagship tyres for Bridgestone now. They are the ones getting fitted to premium perfromance cars.

I noticed a while ago that the Carrera GT is using a type of Pilot Sport with some massive sizes.

DavidM

You are speaking from experience after using both sets of tyres and this is reason enough for me to accept what your saying. I have had zero experience with S02s, and limited experience with the S03s.

I used the S02s on an MR2, S2000 and HSV R8. S03s on the HSV R8, but I know few people who have tried them on the S2000 as well. Also, few of my friends used a few tyres from that list on an Elise, 911 and TVR.

Still, as I mentioned before, different tyres work better (or worse) on different cars, so what I'm saying certainly does not apply to every car out there.

Still, it's a common knowledge that he S03 is inferior tyre to the S02s ... as I mentioned before, ask the tyre dealers and the ones who know a little bit about tyres (and most should), they'll probably confirm it.

I was after ultimate performance in the beginning but had to move down 2 steps price wise, $700 odd for Pirelli, $650 for ContiSport, and $550 for S03. So as my aim was ultimate performance, price in the end played a larger part than I had planned.

Absolutely. The 'other' tyres are so much more expensive than the S03s, that it makes it very difficult to go past them ... afterall, they are a very good tyre in it's own right.

As the '00 model S2000 had S02 as OE equipment i'll guess this is the car you were using them on?

Yes, the S2000 came out with them before they went to 17" wheels (ie. this year). So I had them on it for 1 'life cycle' and them I tried different tyres as I was trying to find something that offers even more grip (in particlar on the track) than the S02s.

I personally dont mind chosing a tyre based on what manufacturers use on their cars, but i dont know how accurate this is in determining which is a good tyre. Especially when many other factors could come into their decisions.

It's only a guideline ... that's all. Though, I would not think that someone like Porsche or Ferrari would compromize the performance of their cars by fitting inferior tyres. Afterall, these manufacturers care about the ultimate perfomance of its cars, and the tyres are a large part of it.

I'm sure that when they narrow it down to a couple tyres then there's some 'dealing' going on to secure an OME contract .... but look at the "big 4" (ie. S02, Pzero, ContiSport2 and PilotSport) and you'll notice that everyone of those tyres has a high calibre, high perfromance OME clientel. I'm sure Bridgestone could get a contract for the S03s if the tyres were "the best of the best". Also Bridgestone does still get a fair few high calibre, high perfromance contracts, but it's not for the S03s. It's for the RE080 and RE070 which are fitted to (from the top of my head) the Enzo, NSX-R, STi Spec-C. I like the look of them (RE070: http://www.tirerack.com/images/tires...re70_ci2_l.jpg)

mchapman

iTrader: (1)

Originally posted by DavidM
Still, it's a common knowledge that he S03 is inferior tyre to the S02s ... as I mentioned before, ask the tyre dealers and the ones who know a little bit about tyres (and most should), they'll probably confirm it.

Well I dont know if its common. Common in the your circles maybe.

Afterall, these manufacturers care about the ultimate perfomance of its cars, and the tyres are a large part of it.

This is ture. Ive noticed this about Ferrari's, they all about performance.

I like the look of them (RE070:...

Maybe its just the photo but they look like they peel up towards the edge of the grooves. I think the Azenis RT-215 have a nice groove pattern, or any of the semi slick tyres look great. http://www.falkentire.com/tires/azsprt_info.jpg