amolaver

iTrader: (1)

looking for track pads for the rear non-brembo oem brakes. i've got a stoptech kit up front and was only partially pleased with the pagid orange's up there - probably going to black's or pf01 next for frame of reference. i know they don't last, etc etc. cheaper than than the stoptech bbk for the rear i'm currently using hawk hps in the back, but would like something with a higher CoF to get more whoah in the back. something along the lines of hawk blues (w/o the rotor destruction if possible).

any thoughts / vendors?

ahm

amolaver

iTrader: (1)

..and just to be totally clear... I did try the search

Its broke

stx

For the track I use EBC's Redstuff. They are ok but the price is good. For the front I use the Pagid Black and I love them. I never had fade until I took a 100 lbs out of the car which dropped my laptops significantly.

daveh

iTrader: (9)

I'm using porterfield r-4 pads all around and am still cooking the rears and getting 2 days out of them.
Just curious, how many days are you getting out of your rears?
I might try pf-97's or 01 next time around up front.

amolaver

iTrader: (1)

with the hawk hps, i'm getting about 4 days out of the rears. they definately drop off their friction coefficient as i get up to speed. if it helps with comparisons to you, i'm starting to smear the pagid orange's on my stoptech 13" kit - i'm going to continue to run this set until they're done, but will be trying the pagid black's next. if those don't work, i'll bite the bullet and try the pf01. the complaints of (corrosive) dusting from the cobalt specvr that john is running makes me nervous. just looking for something that can hang in there temp wise for the rear - i know i'm going to have to swap them regularly, but that's still cheaper than the $2K for the stoptech rear kit.

i just don't know what fitments are available. i think i'm going to post a list of compounds and see if people can comment on their availability for the non-oem rears, and a part # if they can dig it up. a bonus would be an appropriately priced vendor.

so. short list first:

carbotech (yes, i know the same pn is for all compounds - that's what the website says)

xp8 : PN:CT905 : $126
xp9 : PN:CT905 : $126
xp10 : PN:CT905 : $136
PP : PN:CT905 : $109
Bobcat : PN:CT905 : $79

Performance Friction
PF97

Hawk
Blue (low on the list)


Others?

amolaver

iTrader: (1)

doh - forgot to ask. how are the r4's? obviously, not the longest-lived in this application, but they hold up and maintain effectiveness at temp? do you have a vendor (and price) to recommend? at this point, i'm willing to give just about anything a shot. right now the leading contender is the xp8 if i can find someone who has them to sell.

ahm

stumpmj

iTrader: (1)

If you're hard on brakes, stay away from the XP9's and XP10's. At Blackhawk Farms, I got the rear pads so hot that the backing plates wapred and then melted themselves onto the caliper pistons. That was before I got my R-compounds. Before that happened, I was getting about 1.5 days out of a set of the rears. I switched to Hawk HPS in the back and I've also had lots of fade from the Hawks (and from a set of Pagid Oranges in the front) but I don't trust any high friction compounds in the back. I just don't think there's enough heat capacity back there.

Hawk is supposed to be coming out with a pad in the HT10 compund which is a high heat capacity but only medium torque. I might try a set when they come out or a set of Carbotech Panther+ pads. Lower torque and fade resistance than the XP series but that might keep the backing plates from warping basicaly the same as the Hawk HT10 is supposed to be.

I have a tough time justifying putting any expensive pad in the back. I can get 2.5 days out of the Hawk HPS which are the cheapest pads available. Burning up those XP9's got way too expensive for my taste. If I could find an expensive pad that had higher torque and fade resistance than the HPS and lasted at least as long, I'd buy them in a heartbeat. I'm trying Axxis Ultimates for the rear brakes next (another cheap high performance street pad) and then I'll either get the Panther+ or HT10 pads.

Does anyone else have any better suggestions?

J Ritt

iTrader: (4)

Axxis recently released the Ultimates in the non-track rear shape...they're about $20 less per set than the HPS, they have a little more bite, and a higher MOT. From our website...

Axxis Ultimate street performance pads for the rear of the 2003 Nissan 350Z except Track Model.

$39.95 - Item No. 63-223-0905

As for track pads for the front...try the Pagid RS14 black that you mentioned. I prefer those over the oranges, and they're more reasonably priced than the PFC's. I think you'll like them.

amolaver

iTrader: (1)

Please post if/when you find out anything about the HT10 option. That sounds like a good option.

Great info BTW - very helpful. I'll look elsewhere than the XP8, because I imagine you're exactly right. I don't think I had thought through the issue, but having less CoF (than say, XP8) is fine - but it does have to survive the temps w/o dropping off. Since J Ritt just chimed in wrt availability of the axxis ultimates, I'm going to give a set of those a whirl. I personally think they are grabby in the front (w/the stoptech 13" kit) and am going to try something else if/when I ever burn through them (the car doesn't get too many street miles on it).

For $40, its worth the experiment. Thanks for helping out J Ritt. Could you perhaps PM me with suggestions for a front pad option than the ultimates - something a little less grabby?

ahm

ahm

daveh

iTrader: (9)

forgot to mention that porterfield will custom cut any pad shape with any of the pad materials that they carry. It costs a little bit more but they could probably cut a rear in PFC 01 or 97 if you so desire.
I'd be nervous runnin any kind of street pad in the rear considering what I'm doing to a track pad, but for the money it's worth a shot..

dnguyent

iTrader: (5)

Well, that's just great...I did some moderate research, and didn't come upon the corrosive nature of these pads...plus it will be raining during this upcoming event, so that should worsen my situation. Maybe I should wax my wheels or something just to mitigate some of the corrosion...

I'm also running Hawk HPS in the rear. So far, no smearing, and they're holding up ok after two events. I did use the OEM's at first. They lasted two track days...and I am a beginner. As for the HPS, I can't tell if their fading or not since all I can feel are my front brakes doing a good job at grabbing.

stumpmj

iTrader: (1)

I know for sure that I'm going way over the heat limit for the HPS. The pads just crumble when I take them off, which I think means the binder is breaking down due to the heat (the same thing actually happens to the Pagid Oranges I tried up front). I'm hoping that the Axis Ultimates hold up better and are a reasonable match for the Cobalt Friction Spec VRs I'm trying for my Stoptech fronts (I've tried and love the performance of XP9s but I can't stand the pad deposits they leave on my rotors). If anyone is extremely hard on brakes and has a good compond for the Stoptechs, let me know!

amolaver

iTrader: (1)

i broke down and ordered a set of the axxis ultimates and pagid blacks from stoptech.com and had them shipped two day so they'd be here for this weekend's event at vir. since its a two day event, i'm probably going to run the orange's/hps saturday, and may switch to the black's/ultimates sunday to see how they do (if i'm not so tired i fall on my face).

the orange's for me are close, but not quite good enough. i'm hoping the black's measure up. it sounds to me like stumpmj is harder on brakes than i am - my hps haven't crumbled when i take them out, but they are definately fading on me. course, i'm still running azenis, so i guess i can just blame it on not having enough traction as good an excuse as any...

dnguyent - i'd definately wax your wheels beforehand. at the very least, it makes cleaning them up a million times easier. for the most part, you can just wipe them down afterwards, which takes off 90% of the dust. a decent wash using one of the nylon brushes and regular car wash soap afterwards seems to do the trick for me.

ahm

amolaver

iTrader: (1)

Had the last two days to further evaluate the brakes / pads situation. The highlights:

1) In my last tasmanian devil cleanup of the garage, I think I tossed the Pagid Oranges in the trash I'm an idiot. Thank methuselah I ordered the Pagid blacks and had them shipped two day.

2) The Pagid black's seem to have held up well, although I think there might have been minor depositing after the heaviest braking zone (Full course, back straight into the downhill section, dropping from ~140 to ~60). It could have been the HPS in the rear, but I don't think so. I swapped them in Thursday night, and bedded them in on 360W approaching Danville. Lets just say there isn't a whole lot of civilization out that way. Surprisingly, no squeal whatsoever from them, and surprisingly tractable on the street. I wonder how terrible they are to the rotors when cold, but don't know.

3) The HPS in the rear hangs in there for about 2 full-tilt laps of mine at VIR full. They are definately fading at that point, and by lap 3, I am applying significantly more pedal pressure for equivalent deceleration. They lasted just over three days, and were onto the backing plates in my first session of day 4. I didn't feel like swapping pads in the rain, so just called it a day with the Z.

4) I'll be putting the ultimates in the back sometime this week, although may have to replace a rotor because the pad sounds like it wore through to the backing plate. I'm thinking it will be a similar experience as the HPS, but I guess we'll see. I'm really hoping the HT10 shape comes out at a reasonable price for the non-brembo rear. A medium torque, high heat capacity pad sounds like the right answer to me so far.

5) I had a strange issue with both my front stoptech calipers. I had swapped the pads and done a full bleed on Thursday. After my first hot session, I noticed some white residue on the calipers. Looking closely, I could see fluid seeping past the bleeder threads - both sides - and the heat was cooking it off, leaving the residue. I checked the bleeders, and they were tight, but gave them a little extra snugging. That seemed to cure it, but I wonder if the two different metals are expanding at a different rate, and the next time I do a bleed may be a huge PITA. As an aside, ran the Ford HD DOT3 fluid. The charts are right - the stuff works great, and is cheap. Highly recommended.

6) I'm concerned about the longevity of brakes on this car in a big way. I'm running Azenis and having these issues, and will be running R-Compounds (probably ra-1's, 255/40-17) soon. That is going to exacerbate this issue to a large degree I fear. I'm pretty sure I'm going to have to run ducting to the fronts. I'm also considering finding a set of the Track Brembo rears to retro on the car - I just can't justify the $2k for the rear stoptechs. WTF am I going to do in two years when I'm FI?

Random note: I drove my brothers STi for about half a session afterwards, and having never driven that car in anger, almost equalled my best times in the Z. The Z is stock except for Azenis and the 13" stoptech front kit. The STi has a replacement downpipe with dynoed 25whp/30wtq gains - it has about a 60whp advantage on the Z. The STi is running their stock rubber, which seems comparable to the Azenis in grip. I was lifting in a number of places because of unfamiliarity with the car, and because of the embarassment if I wadded my brothers car - another 3 seconds would be a piece of cake. That is one fast forking car. It just leaps out of corners, pulling much harder than the Z. Oddly, I ran one gear higher in much of the course in it as opposed to the Z. It pulls HARD in fifth.

stumpmj

iTrader: (1)

It sounds like you're in the same situation I'm in. I'm going to get a set of Axis Ultimates (too cheap not to try) and then I'll try a set of Carbtech Panther + for the back.

I'm depressed to hear that there may be deposit issues with the Pagid Blacks. They were my next hope for front pads. Oh well, I'll just have to see how the Cobalts work.

I had the exact same issues with my stoptechs and the same solution. On my calipers, the boiling fluid actually stripped the powdercoat off of the calipers. Live and learn I guess. I haven't had any problems since.

EnthuZ

iTrader: (2)

I don't understand why anyone would use Axxis Ultimates on the track. Clearly printed on the box they come in it states that they are NOT to be used on the track.

daveh

iTrader: (9)

Ok I just got off the phone with porterfield after a 20 minute discussion. After they finished laughing at the puny size of the rear pad, they actually suggested raybestos race pads. I told them I've never heard of their race pads and they said that they're just starting to spread the word on them. They supposedly just changed over their race cars from pfc's to them and like them better.
They continued to tell me that they have excellent modulation and very high coefcient of friction and they're easy on the rotors. (sounds too good to be true). At any rate, with much hesitation, I think I'll give them a try. Has anyone else tried the raybestos st43's? I really didn't want to go too aggressive of a pad, but it is rediculous to blow through a set of pads every weekend.

And they said they could cut any of their pad materials for our rear (ie pfc's, hawks. That's what they are doing with the raybestos).

I also would never run an axxis ultimate on the track even in the rear.

amolaver

iTrader: (1)

That's all well and good, but frankly, there just aren't a whole of options - hence the thread. What would you recommend for us non-track owners?

ahm

amolaver

iTrader: (1)

ressurect the thread here...

has anyone run the raybestos pad that daveh commented on? How about any new info on the HT10 being available? i haven't had an event on the ultimates yet, but will update when i do...

ahm

daveh

iTrader: (9)

I haven't had the opportunity to use them yet. An S2000 was offered to me for my last track day. Who am I to pass that up. My next scheduled day is in a couple of weeks at thunderhill. I promise to give my review then.