In that case, I stand humbly corrected... what get for 'assuming' right?

Can someone pass the salt?... this crow tastes pretty awful

Again... FWIW... a chin event has always been on my to-do list... Except for the Roebling event, they are usually in a price range I cannot justify

 

Man, the TZC events must be cheap, how do I get added to the mailing list? I always thought $295 for two days at Roebling was a pretty good deal. Now Barber at $350/day, that is expensive.

Tell you what, I'll talk to the guys and have you approved as an instructor (assuming you are interested) and you can go for the same price I pay. $0. I couldn't afford to do this stuff if I had to pay entry fees.

 

Care to add one more to that list? I think both Stacy and I would like to try a Chin event to see what we could incorporate into ours. There might be some good synergies by taking a look at both (nice use of a Buzz word ...). If needed we can get references from THSCC event lists, Other instructors, PCA Members, etc.

 

Nah... the Chin Roebling one is ok at 295... BUT... for a 'student' who hasn't run with Chin before... $295+$65+50 = $410 ... for Roebling? no thank you...

Hmm... tempting... but I'm not there yet (and not sure I've got the stomach for the passenger seat either LOL) Our instructors also drive for $0, our students drive for $280 at Roebling and Rockingham ($20 off if a paid TZC or THSCC member) instruction included. Our most expensive event is our VIR North Course event in April: $340 last year (waiting on contracts to set price this year). All our events are two-day events.

At Roebling last year we added a Friday lapping day for $150 (Advanced students could attend an instructor clinic the same day for $50 less.)

Keep in mind... our events are not for profit (not that there's anythig wrong with profit)... but it is a different beast. Any profit we do get goes to improving the program and the clubs (we bought an AMB timing system for our time trials this year).

 

Had a couple of great days down at Roebling. The track is completely different with the new asphalt. Took me a couple of sessions to adjust from driving a track that I am used to being a "loose" track to a track on which I was fighting a push. I actually ended up changing my lines by a bit in just about every corner but significantly in 2 and 6 (or 5 depending on how you count). Even tried taking 1 - 2 as a single apex corner which I never really liked before (and still don't) and found plenty of grip where ever I put the car(s).

Once I figured things out, I got my 94 Miata (130K miles and still going strong) down to consistent 1:27.xxxs. Only a bit more than 1 second off my best lap time in my SM before the repaving and three seconds off the current SM track record (1:24.7). Not bad for a street legal car that still has power steering and a/c.

Once I figured the track out I decided it was time to get the Z on the track. I didn't have the time to get everything done before I left for the track (work sucks sometimes) so I had on my fresh Carbotech pads (f-XP10/r-XP8) that weren't bedded and had whatever alignment I was blessed with off the dealer's lot. (A brief aside here that I am sure has been discussed a thousand times, but what were the Nissan engineers thinking when they designed the rear brake system?? I have larger pads on my Miata?!?!)

Things I found out real fast:

1) I love HORSEPOWER!!! It has been 4 years since I sold my ATI Supercharged Trans Am (600 rwhp) and started racing Miatas. I forgot how great it was to be able to throttle steer and to really power out of a corner.

2) I need better brake cooling. Disregarding the first sessions in the Z when the Carbotech pads were bedding in, I found out that there just wasn't enough time for the brakes to cool between T1 brake zone and T4. It was actually funny as it took me several times to figure out what was happening. I'd get to T4 and all of a sudden the left front would 'slip' and the ABS would kick in. I had no idea what was happening (Miatas don't suffer from brake fade, I actually ran an entire year of SM racing without bleeding my brakes). Once I determined that it was fade related, I stopped trail braking into T4 and things were better.

3) The Z is a pretty good car as you buy it. Without discussing driver skill as we all think we are pretty good, I was real happy with the way the Z handled. A bit more body roll than I would like but once the car took a set in the corner she was easy to rotate and very predictable on exit. The only places that the quick weight transfer slowed me down were in the high speed corners (T3 and T7 or T9 depending on how you count). Through some R-Compounds on her and add some better brake cooling and she would run all day.

4) I hate street tires. I missed having some R-Compounds on the car. It took me the first three sessions just to get the hot tire temps where I wanted them so the stock tires wouldn't get real greasy after 4 or so laps. Ended up having to start the cold pressures between 27 & 29 just to keep the hot temps under 40 PSI.

That is it. I'm headed to VIR in December and how I have to decide if I take the Z or the Miata. VIR will be much harder on the brakes so I either have to fix that problem or stick with the Miata.

As a bonus feature, following is a graph from my data acquisition system (Traqmate) showing my fast lap in the Z 1:27.55 compared to a lap in the Miata of 1:27.6. Interesting how the two different cars produce the same lap times in such different ways. I won't tell you which car is which but I bet you can guess. Just remember one has 300hp, the other has 110hp (if I'm lucky).

 

I am still decoding this here, but it looks like there was a confidence lift in the Z for T3 and T9, and a completely different line for T5 and T6. Did you Box T5 and T6 in the Z, and rimmed shotted in the Miata. Is that right? And you carried a bunch more speed in the carrousels in the Miata.

 

You had R-comps on the miata right?

I guess now with more traction, the track allows more speed through the turns (wheras before there was a lot of maintenence throttle, if not pure coasting, through some of the turns) which could entice a push.

 

Marty,

HUGE confidence lift in T9 and a little one in T3 for the Z. The weight move so fast at turn in that I will admit I was a bit scared of wrecking my new car (2,000 miles is all she has on her).

The line in T5 & T6 is a bit different. Later in the day on Sunday I changed my line in the Miata to try and deal with the push I had there (it was either change my line or crawl under the car with tools to adjust the sway bar and I didn't want to get dirty). My 'normal' old line there as run with the Z is too take T5 about mid-track so that as I approach T6 I am running pretty close to parrallel with the outside edge of the track. Brake to the start of the outside curbing and turn in. You can see how slow I had to get the Z to have it rotate in the corner and actually stay on line.

The cars were pushing so bad that I changed the whole combination. I started actually hitting the inside curbing at T5 with the left side tires, braking earlier and actually turning in to T6 at least 2.5 car lengths before the curbing. Instead of a late apex of T6 it became a middle apex. According to the data it was worth .3 seconds/lap as the car was setup.

I think with more setup time I can dial out the push and go back to a more traditional line through there.

I must admit I am pretty happy about my lap times in the Miata. In a SM you would expect to see speeds of 117 - 120 before T1. My best speed all weekend was 110 due to my really soft motor. I can't wait to get the race car there and get under 1:25.0.

 

I had 10+ heat cycle Toyos on the Miata. We have always been full throttle in the Miata through the corners after turn in but in the past had to fight a loose condition with the throttle. This weekend I was actually using the throttle in the Miata to help rotate the car and counter act the push. A little lift to rotate, unwind the steering a tiny bit, another lift, another steering adjustment on so on. Never felt like I was even close to spinning, just needed a better setup to take advantage of all the extra grip.

With respect to tire wear, if you can't dial out the push the track will eat left front tires. If you can, it is still hard on tires but a much more even wear. My tires actually look good after the weekend instead of looking like they were driven on a cheese grater.

 

The other thing that jumps out at me in the graph is the difference in the bottom of the curves. The Miata makes nice "V"s while the Z the bottoms are more "U"s. Actually a pretty good representation of what was going on. In the Miata you brake, turn and mat the throttle. With the Z I was braking, turning and the holding steady state throttle until I could get the apex.