Suspension - What are you running?
main reason i wanted to try out the megans was for the rear "true coilover" or whatever they call it where the spring and shock are 1 piece instead of seperate. I know the zeals run the 1 piece rear and have been very popular, but have yet to see any other companies make these that are decent. Are there any benefits of running this type of setup? But makes me wonder if it was a better design wouldnt nissan have had them installed on the z from the factory?
yeah. i agree with Sharif on that one.. the lower price point in Megan/Stance/K2/etc stuff makes it very appealing... but ride quality probably isn't nearly as good as a well paired shock and spring setup...
i really wonder how much better the moton race suspension coilover systems are vs the high-end HKS/TEIN/KW/zeal race suspension..
i really wonder how much better the moton race suspension coilover systems are vs the high-end HKS/TEIN/KW/zeal race suspension..
Oh, and the driver needs to be ultra consistent...within a couple tenths per lap, or all that testing will be for nothing.
main reason i wanted to try out the megans was for the rear "true coilover" or whatever they call it where the spring and shock are 1 piece instead of seperate. I know the zeals run the 1 piece rear and have been very popular, but have yet to see any other companies make these that are decent. Are there any benefits of running this type of setup? But makes me wonder if it was a better design wouldnt nissan have had them installed on the z from the factory?
Please tell me, that these coilover setups in the rear, are using something other than the wimp factory 12mm nut and crap stud that has snapped off numerous times when changing out rear shocks.
If the entire load of the rear end, is now being support buy those two nuts, I would really be fearing for my life on the track
BTW: I have a 2006 Grand Touring
I was running stock shocks with 20K miles and many track days on them...they where shot when I installed the Koni's. But when they where good, the stock shocks felt pretty good with the Hotchkis springs & sways...the Hotchkis springs are pretty soft,,about the same as the stock springs. So they where in "balance".
But when I installed the Konis, even on soft settings, they shocks seemed "to want" more spring-rate to control on bumpy tracks/roads...But on smooth tracks like Road Atlanta I could run the Koni's set to mid level both front and rear with good success/speed. But again I felt the car needed a little more spring...maybe in the 500 lB range. I am far from a suspension engineer...but this is what my "butt" was telling me.
Note: I like a "soft setup" since my car is 25% DD and 75% track car. The only reason I don't drive it much on the street is I run a lot of camber (3.4 deg front/2.0 rear)...tire wear is the main issue here.
I was running stock shocks with 20K miles and many track days on them...they where shot when I installed the Koni's. But when they where good, the stock shocks felt pretty good with the Hotchkis springs & sways...the Hotchkis springs are pretty soft,,about the same as the stock springs. So they where in "balance".
But when I installed the Konis, even on soft settings, they shocks seemed "to want" more spring-rate to control on bumpy tracks/roads...But on smooth tracks like Road Atlanta I could run the Koni's set to mid level both front and rear with good success/speed. But again I felt the car needed a little more spring...maybe in the 500 lB range. I am far from a suspension engineer...but this is what my "butt" was telling me.
Note: I like a "soft setup" since my car is 25% DD and 75% track car. The only reason I don't drive it much on the street is I run a lot of camber (3.4 deg front/2.0 rear)...tire wear is the main issue here.
I am running the same type of suspension setup as the NISMO factory 380RS race car which has a spring on damper rear with adjustable length control rods for toe adjustment. Yes the shocks are only mounted with those two 12mm nuts. I never heard of any issues. The JUN AWD 350ZTT also runs the same rear suspension setup. The fastest time attack 350Z's are running reall high spring rates. ZEAL recomends 18/16. But that wouldn't work at Sebring with the bumps. The japanese and European tracks are generally smoother than US tracks. Sebring is a biatch with the bumps. One thing to look for in a coil on damper suspension is a fully articulating top mount so the piston does not bend during compression/rebound.
NISMO 380RS
JUN
NISMO 380RS
JUN
Last edited by JETPILOT; Feb 8, 2009 at 07:00 PM.
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When you find one, lemme know. Cuz I'm also searching for a stiffer linear spring to match with something like tokico's.
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you'd be doing yourself a disfavor by downgrading.
FLT-A2s are stiff i agree, but handles well when properly setup..
JIC's quality is better than some of the questionable Megan stuff..
if you want a good street coilover that can be trackable.. kw v3s offer great ride quality (lower spring rates vs their Japanese counterparts), and adjustability (bump/rebound) for the track. i am running on the kw clubsports. which i would think are great track coilovers that are streetable. the valving is different and i believe the spring rates are higher in the clubsports vs the v3.. if you're concerned with looks, the KWs can only be lowered a certain amount before you start reducing shock travel... setups like Zeal, TEIN, HKS have the tube that can be threaded lower to reduce ride height while keeping stock/piston travel the same regardless of height.. which was very nice.. but i'm not slammed, don't want to be... so the KWs are serving me well. my only complaint is KW's bump adjustment on the clubsports is a REAL pita. have to basically lift the car to get underneath to adjust...
my auto-xing friends have koni yellow/hotchkis spring with hotchkis f&r sway bars. honestly.. a great setup for budget conscious and if you dont get out to the track all the time, this is pretty good bang for buck...
regardless of which setup you choose, if you dont have the proper alignment and settings done correctly, it'll all be for waste... corner balance for coilovers and adjusting proper camber/toe settings play a big difference on feel.
FLT-A2s are stiff i agree, but handles well when properly setup..
JIC's quality is better than some of the questionable Megan stuff..
if you want a good street coilover that can be trackable.. kw v3s offer great ride quality (lower spring rates vs their Japanese counterparts), and adjustability (bump/rebound) for the track. i am running on the kw clubsports. which i would think are great track coilovers that are streetable. the valving is different and i believe the spring rates are higher in the clubsports vs the v3.. if you're concerned with looks, the KWs can only be lowered a certain amount before you start reducing shock travel... setups like Zeal, TEIN, HKS have the tube that can be threaded lower to reduce ride height while keeping stock/piston travel the same regardless of height.. which was very nice.. but i'm not slammed, don't want to be... so the KWs are serving me well. my only complaint is KW's bump adjustment on the clubsports is a REAL pita. have to basically lift the car to get underneath to adjust...
my auto-xing friends have koni yellow/hotchkis spring with hotchkis f&r sway bars. honestly.. a great setup for budget conscious and if you dont get out to the track all the time, this is pretty good bang for buck...
regardless of which setup you choose, if you dont have the proper alignment and settings done correctly, it'll all be for waste... corner balance for coilovers and adjusting proper camber/toe settings play a big difference on feel.
Once you set the KW's compression, leave it alone and play with the rebound on the track
KW has a "V2" that's single adjustable (Rebound only) that MSRP - $1,900
KW's "V3" that's double adjustable (separate compression and rebound) MSRPs for - $2,300. That is a hell of a deal for such a high quality double adjustable damper.
KW's Clubsport has 855/455 spring rates, i believe slightly different valving, pillowball top hats, while the V1-V3 have Progressive springs Front and rear.
The V3 is a heck of a deal and hard to beat, especially since they are OEM-equipped on all Mercedes AMG "Black Series" cars - including the CLK63 AMG Black, and the new SL65 AMG Black. -as well as the Nurburgring track record holding Dodge Viper ACR.
Chesbosto - you need to email me the whole file of the pic in your avatar!!!!
Im running BuddyClub "true" coilovers. Great for everyday use and priced pretty good. Only thing i don't like about em is that the rears can't go as low as I want. Fronts u can pretty much slam it. Dont track/autozX my Z so i can't comment on how they do on the track.
Does the single unit setup (on the Zeals for example) break the Solo rule for street prepared that requires you to mount aftermarket suspensions to stock mounting points?
I assume it uses the stock location but my question is more about whether going from a 2-piece to a 1-piece configuration is legal.
I assume it uses the stock location but my question is more about whether going from a 2-piece to a 1-piece configuration is legal.
KTS coilovers with swift springs
Hotchkis sways
SPL Front Camber/Caster Arms.
SPL rear lower arms
SPL rear mid links w/Adj ride height perches
SPL sway bar end links
SPL adj outer tie rod ends
Car is now a dedicated NASA race car although had a number of years of track and street duty with many DE's and got me the 2008 Time Trials TTA win here in TX. With the new Fulcrum Motorsports aero I installed for the 09 season I need to up the spring rate to compensate. Decided to upgrade the shocks to Moton Clubsports while I'm at it and they should arrive any day now. Prior to the cage and the new aero this setup worked very well. Very streetable and very competent on track.
KTS coilovers with swift springs
Hotchkis sways
SPL Front Camber/Caster Arms.
SPL rear lower arms
SPL rear mid links w/Adj ride height perches
SPL sway bar end links
SPL adj outer tie rod ends
Car is now a dedicated NASA race car although had a number of years of track and street duty with many DE's and got me the 2008 Time Trials TTA win here in TX. With the new Fulcrum Motorsports aero I installed for the 09 season I need to up the spring rate to compensate. Decided to upgrade the shocks to Moton Clubsports while I'm at it and they should arrive any day now. Prior to the cage and the new aero this setup worked very well. Very streetable and very competent on track.
I'm surprised with your links to SPL that you didn't get the custom Aragosta's SPL can get.
Why the Clubsports vs Penskes? The following company makes a 350Z Penske setup.
http://anze.biz/racing_shocks.cfm
Last edited by Gsedan35; Feb 10, 2009 at 10:20 AM.
Kuah and I had discussed getting custom valved Aragostas and I was pretty close to pulling the trigger on them. I had also looked at the Penskes built by Anze. Around this time SPL became a Moton dealer although I don't think the website has been updated yet. The ease and convenience of getting the Motons revalved quickly here in the US was a big deciding factor besides their obvious quality and reputation in the racing world. It took me a good 4 months to make my decision and in the end I decided I couldn't go wrong with Moton.
If the chance of revalving was in your decision process, vs Penske only Ohlins catalogs as great of a variety of piston and internal option's avaliable to whoever is doing the work. Meaning less chance for compromises vs not having those option's avaliable to you. Moton's have not worked for everyone, when they were a active team, the Unitech 350z Grand Am team abandoned their clubsports in favor of the Koni 2822 crafted by Truechoice. Penske's can be serviced or revalved easily, and even have seminar's for those that wish to do their own revalving, though I take it your comment about ease of service and revalvig was vs the Aragosta's.
Last edited by Gsedan35; Feb 10, 2009 at 03:08 PM.
There seems to be a misunderstanding in this thread. A coil over spring/shock combination doesn't (by itself) make your car handle better. Often, a cheap or poorly matched setup will make your car handle worse and slow your lap times over a stock setup.
What coil overs do is give you a much easier way to swap springs and come up with the best spring setup for how you drive, how your car is modified, and the tracks you race on. Just buying coil overs, slapping them on the car, and shouting "Done!" is a waste of your time and money.
IMHO, there is no "best" suspension for our (or any) car. Coil overs and adjustable shocks give you a starting point to adjust things to make them the best for you. If you're not willing to adjust, then don't buy adjustable suspension components. You're just wasting money.
What coil overs do is give you a much easier way to swap springs and come up with the best spring setup for how you drive, how your car is modified, and the tracks you race on. Just buying coil overs, slapping them on the car, and shouting "Done!" is a waste of your time and money.
IMHO, there is no "best" suspension for our (or any) car. Coil overs and adjustable shocks give you a starting point to adjust things to make them the best for you. If you're not willing to adjust, then don't buy adjustable suspension components. You're just wasting money.
Not quite a daily driver- drive maybe twice a week. I like a soft setup to take advantage of weight transfer.
RS*R Ti springs
Koni yellows
Cusco A arms and Sways
Battle Version and SPC rear laterals/toe adjustments.
I drift 20% HPDE 30%, autocross 50%. Setup works well for everything if I just adjust the rear dampers. I would consider coilovers at this point since I have dedicated daily driver and autocross cars now. JIC or KW would be my choice.
RS*R Ti springs
Koni yellows
Cusco A arms and Sways
Battle Version and SPC rear laterals/toe adjustments.
I drift 20% HPDE 30%, autocross 50%. Setup works well for everything if I just adjust the rear dampers. I would consider coilovers at this point since I have dedicated daily driver and autocross cars now. JIC or KW would be my choice.