A friend of mine is turning 40 this year and his wife wants to send he and I to Racing School. We have *no* experience in road racing, unless you count Speed Channel. She has asked for my assistance which is useless in this arena. Therefore, I pose the questions below:

Which school? Skip Barber? Bondurant? Other?

How long? 2 days? 3 days? More?

The Skip Barber schools are at tracks like: Moroso(FL), Laguna Seca(CA), Sebring(FL), Daytona(FL), Lime Rock(CT), Road American(WI), and Virgina Int'l(VA). Any thoughts?

What type of cars? Grand Prix? Hi-Perf? GT? Other?

What kind of racing? Drifting? Road Racing? Grand Prix? Other?

Anyone with experience in these matters would be highly appreciated. Looking forward to your replies.

 

I've done 3 courses with 2 different companies about 10-15 years ago. I first started with Jim Russell in Formula 1600 and then 2000s. They were good courses held on circuit Tremblant. The primary focus was on shifting and track driving/placement technique.

A few years later, I did the Skid Barber course in Limerock on BWM sedans. Completely different agenda. Much more focused to car handling beyond the limit of adhesion - every sedan had bald tires on the back. They had a watered down skid pad (in which the instructor would unexpectedly pull the parking brake), emergency lane change (unknow which lane to change into until the trafic light in the appropriate lane turned green), and 90 deg turns with the ABS fuse pulled out. Simply put, within a couple days I went from a technically competent driver (Russel) to competent car handler (Skip). I became very comfortable looking out a side window as I drove, and gained a new respect for what passenger vehicles could really handle.

I always felt Jim Russel taught me how to go fast right up to the edge, Skid Barber showed what it was like and how to survive beyond the edge. Both brought improvements to my driving. With Jim Russell, I still heel and toe everytime I drive stick, and I know where to place the car in lapping/AutoX to retain the most momentum. With Skip Barber, I'm much more in tune as to what the vehilce is saying to me, and I'm much more willing to push it's limits.

As for what benefits you most, it depends on where you feel your driving is at. Are you nervous or caught off guard if the car twitches? Then Skip Barber is a good choice. If you're a comfortable driver at the limit and would like a new experience driving on a full track at highspeeds then Jim Russel/Bondurant is a good choice - only if you have the confidence to push the car. IMO, the best bet would be a course which uses a track with passenger vehicles (Bondurant with Mustangs I believe does that).

2 days is typically lots. It is very physically and mentally exhausting driving a car hard - especially for those learning so much. You will gain a whole new respect to what professional drivers have to endure with hot cabins and foul weather.

Have fun.

 

Excellent post FritzMan (and a unique perspective). One thing I want to mention though. It sound like you did the Russell racing school and the Skippy Driving school. Skippy also has a racing school that they do in their formula dodges that is very similar to the Russell school that you did (and I imagine Russell offers a car control school as well).

To the OP: Eiether of the aforementioned schools are great but pretty hardcore if it's your first time on a circuit. It may make sense to start with something that is based on street cars and is more of driving school/car control clinic than a real racing school. Whatever you do, make sure it is on a real road course. None of this touristy "drive a real winston cup car on an oval" nonsense. Having said that if you are interested in a driving school, there are many ways to do it. From the pro organizations (SKip Barber, etc...) to the manufacturers (BMW M School, Porsche Driving Experience) or with one of the many clubs that run driving events (BMWCCA, PCA, NASA, PDA, Tracmasters, etc...) The first two categories provide the cars and everything you need and cost around $500-1500 per day while the latter group requires you to bring your own car and only costs $100-300 per day.

Hope that helps.

Jason

 

I agree with Jason. For the First timers I would do a High Performance Driving school before and actual Racing school. They will start with the true basics and you will get more confotable in the car. Once you have that sense of comfort, then move on to racing dynamics. It will also allow you to leave the Racing school with more.

-Marty

 

If it were me, I'd first want to attend a course that teaches how to handle skids, oversteer, understeer, etc. One that uses "typical" cars for the class.

I've seen the Skip Barber classes running @ Laguna, and they look like a very good experience. They typically have a watered down, soapy skidpad (in Dakota QC pickups with tiny tires), an AutoX (in Vipers) and maybe some track time, but not sure about that.

It looked like a great learning experience, especially the skidpad. Most schools probably have similar programs.

I'd be wary of going to a HPDE and being able to learn a significant amount of car control (if it is real driving on a track). You will definitely learn quite a bit about the car's handling at the limits, but you will be in your own vehicle on a track, which makes it less easy to learn how to control things if you go over the limits. Also, you will be focused on driving the line, paying attention to the flag stations, checking your mirrors, looking for turn-in points, apexes, track out, etc. These are all very important factors, but if you are looking to learn how to recover from a skid, you won't get that from an HPDE. Although, I may be confusing a true HPDE with a "trackday" and maybe the HPDE actually does give you an opportunity to go sideways in a "safe" environment.

So, like the others have said, it depends on what you are looking for. You will gain lots of knowledge and experience either way.

-D'oh!

 

I've done the the Jim Hall Karting school twice (once for the school, once for the end of the year competition). That was a blast. It's amazing what a kart can do. Doing 80mph with your but scraping the ground in a kart felt faster than doing 150mph in my Z.

I've also done the Derek Daly school in their single seat race cars. Excellent school, much more complicated than karts and you learn how to heel/toe and get used to the effects of aerodynamics (front and rear wings). The car actually handled better at 110mph than 50mph due to the front and rear wings.

I felt that the high performance driving schools were kinda boring compared to the race cars. If you've done some autocrossing, I wouldn't bother with the high performance driving schools, just skip right into driving the race cars. If you don't have any experience driving at the limit in a car, then do the high performance driving school.

 

I've done most everything that Barber has to offer. Their 3 day school at Lime Rock was awesome and comprehensive, plus you use their cars. But it's a little pricey. Still an excellent value
If you want to go a little less expensively, or want to use your own car (what 350z owner doesn't want to try theirs on a track), I recommend a car club the Audi Car Club www.audicarclubna.org). They welcome all enthusiasts regardless of make car owned. Very friendly enthusiast club. I instruct for their Potomac chapter and I use a 350z. They have very good 2 day schools at many major race tracks and it runs $300-$400 which includes a banquet dinner. no special requirements for you or your car. Your car just has to be in decent shape. Details are on the site. It usually runs between $300-$400. That's a bargain for 2 days of track time at a major race track. It's not racing but it will improve your skills and you will get a lot of track time. A couple guys on this BB are active with Audi, and I'm sure they can tell you how much fun they are. Audi has an school coming up April 26-27 at VIR and there are openings for all experience levels. I'll be there. I hope some other 350z brethren can come too. lotsa fun and nice people.
Regards.