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350Z SCCA Street Class Setup

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Old 10-13-2017, 07:53 AM
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KRyn
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Default 350Z SCCA Street Class Setup

Hello all, after a moderately successful and rather frustrating atuo-x season campaigning a 2004 Miata MazdaSpeed this year I decided enough was enough. One of the venues that my club has access to is a runway which severely limits course design and as a result of this heavily favors cars with more horsepower and taller gearing. While I did enjoy driving the Miata it simply wasnít working for me. Having to shift regularly from 2-3 and back again was costing me time and complicating things more than they needed to be. As such, I sold the Miata and purchased a 2007 Grand Touring 350z.

After scouring this forum and the internet I have not found much information about anyone running their Z in the SCCAís Street class. I figured I would start this thread to discuss car setup, what is and isnít working and share ideas.

My current plan for setting up the car (unfortunately it is already in storage until next year) for next yearís auto-x season is as follows. Please feel free to offer any and all feedback.

The most important part of any setup is tires and wheels. Current SCCA Street class rules require you to keep wheel widths the same. You can however, change offsets (by Ī 7mm) and diameter (Ī 1Ē). As the GT comes with 18x9 +30 fronts and 19x10 +30 rears I felt it was the best option (the HR engine also helps) for a Street class Z. After spending a substantial amount of time reading through the fat wheel and tire thread and harassing a few very knowledgeable members I have figured out my plan for rims.

I will be ordering a set of Forgestar F14 rims (in bronze) in the following sizes:
ē Front 18x9 +23
ē Rear 18x10 +23

Getting the correct offset will be crucial in stuffing as much tire up front as possible. With +23 offsets I maximize the cars overall track by pushing the wheels out as far as legally possible and at the same time I will still be able to run either a 275/35/18 or a 285/30/18 upfront. Hopefully I will also end up with a somewhat aggressive / flush look.

I plan to run a square tire setup, which will help offset the cars tendency to understeer as well as allow me to flip tires. In any car that is negative camber challenged, shoulder wear is going to be bad. Can anyone comment on how they have aligned their 350z? My current thoughts are to dial in some toe out in the front and toe in, in the rear. This should also help to combat understeer and get the car to rotate more freely.

After some lengthy discussions with a few club members who have run G35/350Zs, the general consensus was that the Hotchkis front sway bar (Part #22413F) was the bar to get. I was also warned that OEM endlinks will not hold up. I will likely pick up a set of WhiteLine adjustable endlinks, I have run these on other vehicles with great success.

A member of my club previously ran a 2007 Base 350z for a few years before selling it to Bryan Heitkotter. Luckily for me, he purchased a set of Fat Cat Motorsports revalved Bilstein dampers for the car that did not get sold with it. I will be purchasing these and running them on my car.
Regarding the brakes, I will go my usual route with any street / autocross car. Change the fluid with Motul RBF600, grab some new rotors and grab a set of upgraded pads. On my Miata I ran G-Loc R6, while I liked the way these pads performed they were rather noisy. Any suggestions for a street / auto-x pad that is not a Hawk product? I previously ran Ferodo DS2500 on a BMW I owned and rather liked these but they were more money.

Thanks for taking the time to read my wall of text, more to come.
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Old 10-13-2017, 09:35 AM
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I ran this setup for part of this year, then the STU bug bit me.

So I ran a 18x9 +30 and a 18x10 +25. I ran a 275/35/18 all around. The rear will fit perfectly, the front will bulge a lot. Not ideal, but it is allowed. I prefered this because I could still rotate tires by dismounting and remounting. Here is a picture of how it looked:






I wish I had a better picture of the fronts. Just in this guise if the course was geared for higher speeds and wasn't too tight/technical, the car was a threat in CS.

There isn't much we can do with the alignment.

Camber: Front we can't do anything in CS, the rear I would suggest as little camber as possible. This is because with less camber the VLSD locks a little better. That is already a weak point with the car so minimizing its fault as much as possible helps.

Toe: I personally liked 0 in the front and .08 degrees in on the rear. Drew T (Drove a yellow CS at nationals quite a bit suggested this to me). It lets you drive the car quite aggresively.

Brake Pads: I use the Stoptech Sport pads. Great bite and stopping power for autocross. I don't think much more is needed at an autocross level.

Shocks: I didn't do this, I almost purchased Koni's but decided to get coilovers instead (Read: BIG MISTAKE). Any shock upgrade will do well. I know a lot of people swear by the Koni's. (Big mistake to go to STU, now I have to drive with spooky Evo's and Corvette's). I'm sure the Bilsteins you plan on will do great.

Swaybar: A stiffer front essentially neuatralizes some body roll from transitions and turn in.
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Old 10-13-2017, 10:23 AM
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Hey 13esim, thanks for chiming in. After I started my thread I spent some time reading through yours. Looking forward to watching your videos over the weekend. Hopefully I can pick up some driving tips for next season.

Unlike you, I will not (I keep telling my self that) be moving this car from Street! I have ruined way to many cars and have learned my lesson (I hope).

After seeing the pictures you posted on your old rim and tire setup, I believe that my setup will be visually appealing (a little more flush than yours) and not cause any issues with rubbing. I am still undecided on whether or not to go with Bronze Burst or Matte Golden Bronze.

In regards to the alignment, did you try running a little toe out in the front at all? I have found on my previous cars it really helped turn in. I will however keep in mind your suggestion. Interesting about keeping the camber to a minimum in the rear. It makes sense though. Did you get any abnormal tire wear having little to no camber in the rear? Also, how many runs did you manage to get out of your tires before they were thrashed? I will likely be running RE71Rs and hope I can get an entire season out of them.

As I will likely have a codriver most of the year I will be opting for a pad that can handle a bit more heat. With the heavier car and hot summer we had this year I don't want to run into any issues.

I originally planned to get a set revalved Konis for the car but when I was offered the FCM Bilsteins at a steal of a price I couldn't say no. The previous owner of them had nothing but good things to say.

Coming from a car that was neutral to oversteery I am slightly worried about driving the 350z. Hopefully the large front bar and square setup help, understeer sucks. I will have to adjust my driving style, slow in and fast out.

Please feel free to write me an essay on things I should know or do, much appreciated.
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Old 10-13-2017, 08:18 PM
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After breaking my whiteline endlinks, I would suggest buying SPL from the beginning
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Old 10-19-2017, 07:15 AM
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Originally Posted by KRyn View Post
Hey 13esim, thanks for chiming in. After I started my thread I spent some time reading through yours. Looking forward to watching your videos over the weekend. Hopefully I can pick up some driving tips for next season.

Unlike you, I will not (I keep telling my self that) be moving this car from Street! I have ruined way to many cars and have learned my lesson (I hope).

After seeing the pictures you posted on your old rim and tire setup, I believe that my setup will be visually appealing (a little more flush than yours) and not cause any issues with rubbing. I am still undecided on whether or not to go with Bronze Burst or Matte Golden Bronze.
If your car is a darker color, the Matte Golden Bronze would look good, if your car is a lighter color I think the Bronze Burst will look best.

Originally Posted by KRyn View Post
In regards to the alignment, did you try running a little toe out in the front at all? I have found on my previous cars it really helped turn in. I will however keep in mind your suggestion. Interesting about keeping the camber to a minimum in the rear. It makes sense though. Did you get any abnormal tire wear having little to no camber in the rear? Also, how many runs did you manage to get out of your tires before they were thrashed? I will likely be running RE71Rs and hope I can get an entire season out of them.
I actually didn't mess around, I was happy with that setup so I didn't really experiment. I kept camber in the rear as low as possible but it would still end up being around 2.3 degrees. Our cars have a lot of rear camber from the factory. I did 12 autocross events on my tires, includuded driving to the event and back on the tires, almost half had a co-driver and then I also have two NASA events on the tires and this is what they look like:




So I could have done a better job at managing the life of the tire. The left were on the rear lastly, but initially I had them on the front. What wore them most was I did an autocross event without the ABS on. I easily shaved 2/32nds off from that.

It might be hard to tell now but at one point I had to flip the fronts because the outside was wore from the lack of camber.

Originally Posted by KRyn View Post
As I will likely have a codriver most of the year I will be opting for a pad that can handle a bit more heat. With the heavier car and hot summer we had this year I don't want to run into any issues.
I still think the Stoptech Sports may still be a good choice, I never had an issue when I was co-driving. Recently at my last NASA event it took about 5 hard laps to get fade. After I felt fade I would take a cool down lap and they would be back for a few more laps.

Originally Posted by KRyn View Post
Coming from a car that was neutral to oversteery I am slightly worried about driving the 350z. Hopefully the large front bar and square setup help, understeer sucks. I will have to adjust my driving style, slow in and fast out.

Please feel free to write me an essay on things I should know or do, much appreciated.
I feel the car in this guise is easy to drive aggresively, the car will have loads of grip making it harder to slide, its still possible but very easy to recover the car back.
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Old 11-01-2017, 12:11 PM
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I've been running mine in CS for a couple years now. Really well setup ND MX5s are next to impossible to beat in CS. My car is about 1000lbs heavier than one. I'm basically on the same setup with 18x10 RPF01s in the rear and 18x9 RP01s in the front (RPF01s wouldn't clrear the front brembos in stock offset). I'm running the hotchkiss bar as well. 2007 Grand Touring 350z.

I've had to replace all 4 wheel bearings, both front lower control arms and a couple of wear items. I'm getting to the point where I when I replace stuff, I want to make it better so my CS days are numbered.

My biggest problem at the moment is the diff bushing is shot. I really don't want to replace the subframe with a new one from Nissan just to get the crappy liquid filled bushing that will rip again. All the aftermarket ones are poly.

I'm also at 100k miles.

I think the car would be great in CS if the NDs weren't there. It's pretty fun but definitely porky for CS and you do feel all of the weight. I just have koni yellows for shocks but they were a huge improvement over the blown stock ones.

Last edited by eye-5; 11-01-2017 at 12:13 PM.
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Old 11-01-2017, 12:17 PM
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I actually went from aftermarket end links to the stock ones. I think the aftermarket ones lasted 6 months before they had to much play to deal with. The stock ones have been working great ever since. I did have to flatten the tab on the stock ones to make it work with the aftermarket bar. My buddy Drew (mentioned above) also runs the stock end links without problems.
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Old 11-01-2017, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by 13esim View Post
If your car is a darker color, the Matte Golden Bronze would look good, if your car is a lighter color I think the Bronze Burst will look best.
My car is also black. After polling a number of people I will be getting the Matte Golden Bronze. Once the Black Friday sales start popping up I will shop around and place my order.

Originally Posted by 13esim View Post
I actually didn't mess around, I was happy with that setup so I didn't really experiment. I kept camber in the rear as low as possible but it would still end up being around 2.3 degrees. Our cars have a lot of rear camber from the factory. I did 12 autocross events on my tires, includuded driving to the event and back on the tires, almost half had a co-driver and then I also have two NASA events on the tires and this is what they look like:
Wow, 2.3 degrees is way more than enough. I canít believe that was the MINIMUM you were able to get. I still canít believe how camber challenged stock 350Zs are in the front! I thought the paltry -1.4 degrees I got on my Miata was bad.

Originally Posted by 13esim View Post
It might be hard to tell now but at one point I had to flip the fronts because the outside was wore from the lack of camber.
I did this on my Miata and it basically doubled the life of the tires.

Originally Posted by 13esim View Post
I still think the Stoptech Sports may still be a good choice, I never had an issue when I was co-driving. Recently at my last NASA event it took about 5 hard laps to get fade. After I felt fade I would take a cool down lap and they would be back for a few more laps.
As I can get the G-loc pads for the same price I will just get them and some basic rotors. Donít need anything fancy for the street and auto-x.

I donít suppose you have gone ahead and done the yaw sensor, full traction control off mod? As this is legal under SCCA rules it will be one of the first things I do (I already purchased an additional VDC Off switch). I have read a number of people complaining about the ECU intervening frequently when being thrown around parking lots.
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Old 11-01-2017, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by eye-5 View Post
I've been running mine in CS for a couple years now. Really well setup ND MX5s are next to impossible to beat in CS. My car is about 1000lbs heavier than one. I'm basically on the same setup with 18x10 RPF01s in the rear and 18x9 RP01s in the front (RPF01s wouldn't clrear the front brembos in stock offset). I'm running the hotchkiss bar as well. 2007 Grand Touring 350z.
Before buying my 350 I accepted the fact that it wouldnít be at the pointy end of the spear in CS. I was told that had the ND not ended up in CS, the Grand Touring 350z would have likely been the car to have. There are a number of people driving NDs in my club and they are all competent drivers (i.e better than me). How far back are you on average from them? How stiff are you running your bar?

Originally Posted by eye-5 View Post
I've had to replace all 4 wheel bearings, both front lower control arms and a couple of wear items. I'm getting to the point where I when I replace stuff, I want to make it better so my CS days are numbered.
How long did your wheel bearings last and how difficult are they to replace on the 350z?

Originally Posted by eye-5 View Post
My biggest problem at the moment is the diff bushing is shot. I really don't want to replace the subframe with a new one from Nissan just to get the crappy liquid filled bushing that will rip again. All the aftermarket ones are poly. I'm also at 100k miles.
As I donít intend to run my car nationally I would just replace the OEM bushings with the SPL ones and be done with. I couldnít see anyone locally causing a stink. Do you still have the original diff bushings installed or have you already replaced them once?

Originally Posted by eye-5 View Post
I think the car would be great in CS if the NDs weren't there. It's pretty fun but definitely porky for CS and you do feel all of the weight. I just have koni yellows for shocks but they were a huge improvement over the blown stock ones.
I was going to get revalved Koni Yellows but the Fat Cat Motorsport Bilsetins I ended up with were half the price. Hopefully they are good.

I am not looking forward to wrestling the extra weight of the 350Z. However, I am excited to daily drive a car that actually has some jam.

Originally Posted by eye-5 View Post
I actually went from aftermarket end links to the stock ones. I think the aftermarket ones lasted 6 months before they had to much play to deal with. The stock ones have been working great ever since. I did have to flatten the tab on the stock ones to make it work with the aftermarket bar. My buddy Drew (mentioned above) also runs the stock end links without problems.
Really, OEM end links? A guy in my club with the Hotchkiss bar (set on 3rd stiffest setting) and OEM endlinks (brand new ones) snapped one on his first or second run out during his first session. Did you have Whiteline or SPL endlinks? If WhiteLine, I might just get the SPL ones (damn they are pricey) as they come highly recommended.
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Old 11-01-2017, 01:45 PM
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I had Circuit Sports end links so probably not the best quality but I've used their products in the past and had luck, maybe a well known brand like SPL will fare better. The OEM have been great and I track the crap out of the car as well.

I run it on almost full stiff, closest hole on one side and second closest hole on the other. Full stiff didn't leave much room for tuning with the shocks for front to rear balance.

I want to wait and see what happens with STU as far as unlimited boost goes. Either way, I'm gonna have to replace the bushing. Probably go with the Z1 poly diff bushings. The STU stuff would really help with track stuff I do. It would be nice having real camber in the front as well as some added cooling. I have to keep an eye on water temps in long sessions during hot weather.

The wheel bearings in the front are easy, 4 bolts. The ones in the rear are still 4 bolts but you have to press the hubs on and off which is a pain, one of my hubs was bad so I had to get one right from nissan for $$$. My car has 100k miles and I bought it with 78k. It seems like it was the first time they were done.
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Old 11-01-2017, 01:47 PM
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The Concentric Slave Cylinder in the clutch on HRs is also crap. Left me stranded. Not really a good solution if you want to be 100% compliant with the rules.
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Old 11-01-2017, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by eye-5 View Post
The Concentric Slave Cylinder in the clutch on HRs is also crap. Left me stranded. Not really a good solution if you want to be 100% compliant with the rules.
When did yours fail and what did you do to repair it, OEM or aftermarket parts? I wasnít aware of this issue until right now. My car has low mileage at 56,000 (kilometers) and was previously owned by an older couple, so no hard miles.
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Old 11-01-2017, 03:20 PM
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Originally Posted by KRyn View Post
When did yours fail and what did you do to repair it, OEM or aftermarket parts? I wasn’t aware of this issue until right now. My car has low mileage at 56,000 (kilometers) and was previously owned by an older couple, so no hard miles.
Zspeed makes a HD concentric unit. They also make a conversion kit to a fork. Z1 motorsports makes a conversion to a fork.

Mine failed around 87k. If you track the car, it gets real hot and fails. It is plastic. The FSM says to replace it every time you remove the trans. To be within the rules, you can replace it and see how that goes. Zspeed concentric HD would be the most stealth, however it uses stainless steel lines. If no rules were in place, I'd go with an external one w/fork for super easy & cheap replacements of the slave cylinder (don't have to drop the trans).
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Old 11-08-2017, 07:44 AM
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Originally Posted by KRyn View Post
I donít suppose you have gone ahead and done the yaw sensor, full traction control off mod? As this is legal under SCCA rules it will be one of the first things I do (I already purchased an additional VDC Off switch). I have read a number of people complaining about the ECU intervening frequently when being thrown around parking lots.
I haven't yet, partly because I haven't really had an issue with it. I feel at one event it was messing with me on a corner where the elevation changed and I had to trail brake into it, although I wasn't sure if it was VDC freaking out or ABS freaking out.

I one time pulled the ABS plug to disable all systems, car reacted the same other than locking up the fronts, I don't recommend this, I swear I shaved off 2/32nds of tread and even when I got a hang of it, I plugged it back and shaved a full second off my time.
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Old 11-08-2017, 09:55 AM
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I disconnected the yaw sensor to troubleshoot a problem which it didn't solve. I have a strange noise along with a binding feeling from the rear on right hand turns. A bad rear wheel bearing / hub mixed with the torn diff bushing seems to be the culprit.

I ran it for two years simply pushing the VDC switch. It was fine with the exception of occasionally forgetting to turn it off.
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Old 11-21-2017, 09:11 AM
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Either of you two gents have any experience with data acquisition devices and software? Looking to get something setup for next year. Auto Sports Lab have an interesting piece of hardware and software. Any input is welcome.
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Old 11-22-2017, 05:42 AM
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Originally Posted by KRyn View Post
Either of you two gents have any experience with data acquisition devices and software? Looking to get something setup for next year. Auto Sports Lab have an interesting piece of hardware and software. Any input is welcome.
I do this at work as a process engineer. I'd be glad to help with general questions, but don't have specific hardware insight.

The one from autosports labs looks ok... Can you hook external sensors into it though? No oil temp, EGT, or boost if you went there one day.

http://racingcardynamics.com/data-ac...-fundamentals/

There is some good information in the last paragraph of "what kind of data" which made me think if you are going to spend the $ then get one with GPS built in to really optimize your car for whatever track you are on.
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Old 11-22-2017, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by yosip1115 View Post
I do this at work as a process engineer. I'd be glad to help with general questions, but don't have specific hardware insight.

The one from autosports labs looks ok... Can you hook external sensors into it though? No oil temp, EGT, or boost if you went there one day.

http://racingcardynamics.com/data-ac...-fundamentals/

There is some good information in the last paragraph of "what kind of data" which made me think if you are going to spend the $ then get one with GPS built in to really optimize your car for whatever track you are on.
Hi Yosip1115, thanks for your reply.

From my understanding, the model I linked is their basic unit. It can hook up to your vehicle via its OBD port and collect some information (which varies from models and make). As I am really only using this car to auto-x (sprinkle in the occasional track day), I don't believe I will benefit from having the ability to gather information on boost, EGT, etc. The unit I linked does have a built in GPS. It lists the following specs:

GPS Type Internal active antenna
GPS Sample rates 5/10/25/50Hz capable (10Hz recommended, 50Hz requires optimal conditions)
GPS accuracy 2.5M CEP

I am interested in data acquisition and analysis as I will have a co-driver this year who is much, much better than I. Hoping to make videos and overlay data comparing my co-drive and I. I figure as long as I have information like speed, throttle and brake input I will be set. Thoughts?
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Old 11-22-2017, 10:14 AM
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Unhappy

Have either of you checked out the SCCA Fast Track for December yet? Check out all them cars moving to DS. I don't think any of these moves will help put the 350z back at the pointy end of the spear.

Last edited by KRyn; 11-22-2017 at 10:18 AM.
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Old 12-19-2017, 02:57 PM
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The car is buried in C-Street in anything other than a local event. I'm curious if Dick/Ryan/Steve mentioned my name to you...

I did cone away what would have put me into the lead at the Pro finale in 2016 against the ND's but gave it all I had at Nats and ended up 13th (top Z) out of 86 drivers, mostly ND's. Drying conditions did hamper my position a few spots for sure...

I will post more later but there isn't much secret to the car in street class...
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