510dat

My intention for the Z is as a primary vehicle plus occasional track use (Laguna Seca and Sears Point are the two closest to me).

From what I've heard here, it seems that the lower level brakes really need help for track use, at the very minimum upgraded pads and fluid.

I've been debating between getting the Track model or a Performance with a BBK upgrade (ie. Stoptech 332/328 kit). According to the Nissan website, the MSRP price difference between the 05 Performance and the 05 Track is $3650.00

Stoptechs list price for the 332 kit is $4290, but it comes with a few trimmings like Stainless Steel brake lines.

The idea of the new Track model only having 260ft/lb. of torque isn't appealing to me, and I would actually prefer the Enthusiast model, except I have decided the VDC is worth the expense of bigger tires.

Any thoughts or suggestions?

J Ritt

iTrader: (4)

This was the same dilemma I faced waaay back when I bought my Enthusiast (and before I worked for StopTech).

My main question would be, what else is there on the Performance model that you really want, that isn't found on the Enthusiast? VDC? 18" wheels?

I would do the following:
Buy an enthusiast for $28650...save yourself the $2200 vs. the Performance model, and buy our 332mm front kit for $1995, a set of race pads for the track (Pagid RS14's are about $200). Leave the rear base brakes stock. The base rear will be fine with some decent pads to get you through a track weekend (I still run the stock base brakes on the rear of my Z with this same setup.

You don't need VDC if you know how to drive well, and don't plan on driving in the snow. You'll be sick of the stock 18" wheels if you buy the Performance model, and you'll want aftermarket wheels anyway.

Take that $3650 that you would have spent on the track model, and buy the following:
1. Nismo LSD with finned cover $1000
2. Aftermarket wheels (Volks?) and good tires (Kumho Ecsta MX?)$3000...or you could get some stock Track Model wheels used for about $1000, and put some good rubber on them.
3. If you go with the used Track model wheels, that leaves you with $1000 towards a good suspension setup, stereo, oil cooler, lightweight flywheel and clutch, or whatever else you like.

With this setup, you would beat up on a stock track model on stock wheels and tires at the track.

If I had to do it over again, I probably would have bought the base model and some HID's. I've already changed my pedals and LSD, so the benefits of the Enthusiast over the Base model have been relegated. I like my auto-dimming mirror, but it isn't worth $2000!

EnthuZ

iTrader: (2)

J Ritt, you forgot, in that $2000.00, you also got the MUCH used illuminated vanity mirrors! I think the base now comes with them.....

OK, I agree with what J Ritt said......except, I'd get the soon to be released Quaife LSD over the Nismo.

King Tut

iTrader: (1)

Get the Enthusiast. You won't use the VDC at the track, you will save money. The Stoptech setup is far superior to the Track Brembos. Buy yourself a set of racing specific wheels and rubber to only use at the track along with a set of track only pads for your Stoptechs and you are ready to go racing.

510dat

Thanks guys, I appreciate your input. I was thinking Enthusiast < Performance strictly on the VDC; I've read several posts by people who got squirrely in the rain and were convinced that it saved them. I'd actually rather have the smaller wheels and tires, and could care less about the TPS.

thawk408

iTrader: (16)

And how did you come to this conclusion??

ZPirate

Cause the StopTech 332/328mm setup is superior to the OEM Brembo setup on the Track model. First both of the StopTech front kits (332 or 355) are larger (calipers, pads and rotors) than the Brembo front brakes. Next, the StopTechs come with stainless steel brake lines and two piece rotors (either slotted or cross drilled) as compared to the Track Brembos one piece (heavy) rotors.

In Stoptech's testing its front 332mm kit performed as well as or better than the complete Brembo set up on the Track model. The 355mm kits (both front only and 4 wheel) did even better. Since the StopTech rear 328mm kit was not available at that time the testing did not include that particular kit, but I bet the addition of a 328mm rear kit would improve the performance of the front 332 and 355 front kits even more.

thawk408

iTrader: (16)

I bet the Brembos would do a lot better with the addition of SS brakelines and some nice pads.

thawk408

iTrader: (16)

I bet the Brembos would do a lot better with the addition of SS brakelines and some nice pads. Also, not calling Stoptech a lier, but of course in their testing they are going to say their line is better.

J Ritt

iTrader: (4)

thawk,
Regardless of whether or not you put good pads in the Brembo setup, you get the following with any of our StopTech kits:

1. significant increase in heat capacity due to a larger rotor
2. more airflow through proprietary rotor vane design
3. Better pedal feel and modulation due to stiffer caliper design and ss lines
4. More pad choices from more manufacturers
5. Significantly lower operating costs due to lower cost replacement parts (rotors for example are about 1/2 the cost of replacing the factory Brembo rotors...adds up to hundreds or thousands of dollars over the life of the car)
6. Far superior technical service and knowledge (try calling the average Nissan dealership and asking them about pad transfer, bed-in, or recommended brake fluid).
7. Fully floating 2 piece rotor-less weight, no coning, better pad contact

Overall, the StopTech package has many, many merits.

BTW, that test documentation was conducted by one of our resellers (Zeckhausen Racing) who sells both Brembo and StopTech. We did not do that write-up.

ZPirate

Thawk408,

Sure the Brembos would perform better with the addition of stainless steel lines and better pads. They would also perform better with high performance brake fluid and upgraded rotors, such as the two piece replacement rotors StopTech makes for the Z/G Brembo brake kit. However, I thought the question was OEM Brembo brakes versus a StopTech BBK.

You can purchase the OEM Brembo kit from Performance Nissan if you have a non Track Z. Their kit includes stainless steel lines and the StopTech replacement rotors instead of the OEM lines and rotors which improves the kit over the OEM. It aslo costs more than a StopTech 332/328 four wheel kit. For my money I would rather have the StopTech kit. See Jeff's points above for more advantages the StopTech kit has over the Brembos.

Basically a front StopTech BBK is all the performance most people need unless they are seriously tracking the car. Retail on the 13" front kit is less than $2,000.

thawk408

iTrader: (16)

Yes I understand all of these things. I never doubted that the stoptech is a good product or that it isnt better then the brembo, becuase if I didnt decide on the track I would of gotten stoptech brakes. My main point was to address the comment made by King Tut that the stoptechs are "far superior" to the brembos, as I was aware that both had very close braking power.

ZPirate

Since you are getting the Track model the best way to improve the braking even more would be to add stainless steel brake lines, better pads, such as the Hawk HPS pads and better rotors like the StopTech two piece replacement rotors.

By the way if I had to do it over again I would have purchased a Track model rather than a Touring model basically because of the brakes and the wheels. I ended up with Track wheels anyway. Although I think my car is better overall now because I have the amenities of the Touring with the performance of the Track it has certainly cost me more than buying a Track, upgrading the brakes as I suggested above, adding leather to the seats and upgrading the stereo. But since I ordered my car in early September 2002 without having seen a 350Z in person, only in pictures, I ordered the Touring model because I wanted the Touring amenities and ironcially I didn't like the way the Track wheels looked in the pictures. At least I picked the right color from a color sample. Just my two cents.

King Tut

iTrader: (1)

I said they are far superior because he said he plans on tracking the car at two race tracks. In normal every day driving the difference in breaking between the two probably isn't noticeable, but get them out on the track and a Stoptech setup will definitely outperform the stock Brembos. That being said as mentioned if you upgrade a Brembo setup with the lines, fluid, and rotors you will have a setup that is probably as good as a Stoptech 13" setup.

thawk408

iTrader: (16)

O awesome. I was unaware that Stoptech made floating rotors for the track model. I will definately check this out!

FLA - Zman

My situation was the same as yours-
I needed a daily driver I could use for about 6 track events per year.

I got the Enthusiast edition.

I have added:
Stoptech 14" kit for the front, and 13" kit for the rear.
I use track pads and Motul 600 fluid for the DE days.

I picked up a nice set of 18" Volks w/ tires on e-bay for $1500,
and a JWT pocharger for $100.

Now I've got the track performance I wanted, along with good looks (not me, the car), and daily drivability.
I really feel like I achieved my goal of a solid and competitive dual purpose car!

510dat

Thanks for all the suggestions. Where do you get pads? I don't expect to go to NAPA and find "daily driver" and "track" pads for 13" rotors.

and speaking of which, what's a 'floating rotor?' Frankly, if I notice my rotors are floating, I'm not gonna drive my car! I assume it means something other than "the bolts holding the rotors on are loose"

King Tut

iTrader: (1)

It means that instead of the rotor being a solid piece like OEM it is a 2 piece design with a rotor hat and outer rotor and the way they are connected is called a floating rotor. I think www.stoptech.com has an article talking about the floating rotor.

J Ritt

iTrader: (4)

510...read, read, and read all of this!

http://www.stoptech.com/faq/

http://www.stoptech.com/technical/

If you absorb 10% of this, you'll know more about brakes than 95% of the world.

The pads we use in our calipers are common shapes...they were purposefully designed that way. The front is the same pad shape as a Porsche 993. There are about 25 street and track compounds available. The rear pad shape is the same as the 350Z track model...many friction options. You can buy pads from us, our authorized resellers, or pretty much any major performance shop.

510dat

good read, thanks!