Truechoice "Phase II" option
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Blu
What is your budget?
Can start from there.
Custom valved yellows and springs cost approx. as per my original post.
I don't see TcKlines on their website anymore. Occasionally you see them for sale in the marketplace, but potential refurbishing cost would need to be considered.
Motons or JRZ's are beaucoup bucks; you need to consider your requirements if going into that territory.
pp
What is your budget?
Can start from there.
Custom valved yellows and springs cost approx. as per my original post.
I don't see TcKlines on their website anymore. Occasionally you see them for sale in the marketplace, but potential refurbishing cost would need to be considered.
Motons or JRZ's are beaucoup bucks; you need to consider your requirements if going into that territory.
pp
Yeah i got a pair thru the marketplace of the TCklines and you have to call them to order them i think and they can be revalved by Koni.
Just to be sure this isn't a typo.
Yes, our cars understeer from the factory - most OEM's do.
However, increasing front spring rate or bar stiffness will cause more understeer. Lowering rear rates will also increase understeer. Not the contrary as your post suggests.
That being said, Unitech when testing the phase IV found that 500/425 (a lower rear rate) gave them the balance they were looking for. Contrary, Nismo T2's are LBS 625/700. YMMV based on your track needs.
pp
Yes, our cars understeer from the factory - most OEM's do.
However, increasing front spring rate or bar stiffness will cause more understeer. Lowering rear rates will also increase understeer. Not the contrary as your post suggests.
That being said, Unitech when testing the phase IV found that 500/425 (a lower rear rate) gave them the balance they were looking for. Contrary, Nismo T2's are LBS 625/700. YMMV based on your track needs.
pp
Yeah it was a typo my bad lol I was typing on my phone and it must have autocorrected
Kewl. Didn't know this. Thanks.
Blu
What is your budget?
Can start from there.
Custom valved yellows and springs cost approx. as per my original post.
I don't see TcKlines on their website anymore. Occasionally you see them for sale in the marketplace, but potential refurbishing cost would need to be considered.
Motons or JRZ's are beaucoup bucks; you need to consider your requirements if going into that territory.
pp
What is your budget?
Can start from there.
Custom valved yellows and springs cost approx. as per my original post.
I don't see TcKlines on their website anymore. Occasionally you see them for sale in the marketplace, but potential refurbishing cost would need to be considered.
Motons or JRZ's are beaucoup bucks; you need to consider your requirements if going into that territory.
pp
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Yes, there is much more to a setup than the springs/dampers.
pp
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For a complete set-up (I already have Hotchkis sways), definitely under $2,000. Hell, possibly even under $1,500 if at all possible. It won't be used for serious track use just a play toy that I want to make faster at the track and to make myself a better driver and be used on the street every once in awhile.
the next question you need to ask yourself, is what are you trying to achieve with your choices.
what characteristic of your current setup are you trying to change.
what have you tried already (tire changes, sway settings, alignment)
what ride height are you aiming for - I needed a product with minimal drop
how much adjustability do you need, or are you set and forget it.
as Terrasmak notes - there are many variables. You are just getting started. I found the hardest part was deciding where to start, as there are many different choices. Then you go from there
I didn't have the expertise, so I decided to start with unitech's product setup based on their testing and reviews, and an opportunity to get one of the development sets at a good price.
pp
Last edited by palepony; Jun 7, 2013 at 09:49 AM. Reason: clarification as to why I chose unitech
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now that you have a budget -.
the next question you need to ask yourself, is what are you trying to achieve with your choices.
how much track time have you with your current setup and what's your assessment of your cars needs/deficiency.
what characteristic of your current setup are you trying to change.
what have you tried already (tire changes, sway settings, alignment)
what ride height are you aiming for - I needed a product with minimal drop
how much adjustability do you need, or are you set and forget it.
as Terrasmak notes - there are many variables. You are just getting started. I found the hardest part was deciding where to start, as there are many different choices. I didnt have the expertise so I decided to start with unitech's product setup. Then you go from there.
pp
the next question you need to ask yourself, is what are you trying to achieve with your choices.
how much track time have you with your current setup and what's your assessment of your cars needs/deficiency.
what characteristic of your current setup are you trying to change.
what have you tried already (tire changes, sway settings, alignment)
what ride height are you aiming for - I needed a product with minimal drop
how much adjustability do you need, or are you set and forget it.
as Terrasmak notes - there are many variables. You are just getting started. I found the hardest part was deciding where to start, as there are many different choices. I didnt have the expertise so I decided to start with unitech's product setup. Then you go from there.
pp
Palepony is right Blu, I had to do the same thing, I stayed completely stock for a while than after i figured out what needed to be adjusted for my driving i went with the basic kits of everything and their recommended settings and went from there. but as they both note, its really a lot of variables, especially if this is just a track car, or you have to do a combo DD/track. Since your doing a combo your going to have to make a setup that will work both on the track and off, or you can make two different setups it just depends
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From: Long Beach, CA
now that you have a budget -.
the next question you need to ask yourself, is what are you trying to achieve with your choices.
what characteristic of your current setup are you trying to change.
what have you tried already (tire changes, sway settings, alignment)
what ride height are you aiming for - I needed a product with minimal drop
how much adjustability do you need, or are you set and forget it.
as Terrasmak notes - there are many variables. You are just getting started. I found the hardest part was deciding where to start, as there are many different choices. Then you go from there
I didn't have the expertise, so I decided to start with unitech's product setup based on their testing and reviews, and an opportunity to get one of the development sets at a good price.
pp
the next question you need to ask yourself, is what are you trying to achieve with your choices.
what characteristic of your current setup are you trying to change.
what have you tried already (tire changes, sway settings, alignment)
what ride height are you aiming for - I needed a product with minimal drop
how much adjustability do you need, or are you set and forget it.
as Terrasmak notes - there are many variables. You are just getting started. I found the hardest part was deciding where to start, as there are many different choices. Then you go from there
I didn't have the expertise, so I decided to start with unitech's product setup based on their testing and reviews, and an opportunity to get one of the development sets at a good price.
pp
All I have is: Tein S Techs, factory struts from 2004, Hotchkis front and rear adjustable sway bars.
Aside from the sway bars, I think anything I get will be a pretty big improvement as far as the car's stability and manerisms entering, going through and exiting turns as well as any diving or squatting from decceleration/acceleration.
Basically, I will not have the time or money to keep going to track events every month. I might go every 3-4 months. My attitude as far as modding my Z tends to be a fire-and-forget style. My cars tend to stay the way they are for quite long periods of time as far as parts are concerned. My goal is just to make the car feel better for my own piece of mind and to see a cause and affect for my own entertainment. I won't be entering competitions or anything of the sort.
I guess I should look into the Koni Yellows with some sort of springs or perhaps the TrueChoice Phase 2 system.
I know this sounds kind of nebulous but based on my current below-mediocre set-up (mostly for street driving which I barely do in the first place as my car sits at my parent's for weeks on end) and my goals, do you think the Koni Yellows and some springs of the Phase 2 seem like a good bet?
I know this question is quite nebulous but do you think the Koni Yellows and some springs or the Phase 2 are the ways to go?
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Well, the good news, I guess, is that I have a pretty modest or basic baseline.
All I have is: Tein S Techs, factory struts from 2004, Hotchkis front and rear adjustable sway bars.
Aside from the sway bars, I think anything I get will be a pretty big improvement as far as the car's stability and manerisms entering, going through and exiting turns as well as any diving or squatting from decceleration/acceleration.
Basically, I will not have the time or money to keep going to track events every month. I might go every 3-4 months. My attitude as far as modding my Z tends to be a fire-and-forget style. My cars tend to stay the way they are for quite long periods of time as far as parts are concerned. My goal is just to make the car feel better for my own piece of mind and to see a cause and affect for my own entertainment. I won't be entering competitions or anything of the sort.
I guess I should look into the Koni Yellows with some sort of springs or perhaps the TrueChoice Phase 2 system.
I know this sounds kind of nebulous but based on my current below-mediocre set-up (mostly for street driving which I barely do in the first place as my car sits at my parent's for weeks on end) and my goals, do you think the Koni Yellows and some springs of the Phase 2 seem like a good bet?
I know this question is quite nebulous but do you think the Koni Yellows and some springs or the Phase 2 are the ways to go?
All I have is: Tein S Techs, factory struts from 2004, Hotchkis front and rear adjustable sway bars.
Aside from the sway bars, I think anything I get will be a pretty big improvement as far as the car's stability and manerisms entering, going through and exiting turns as well as any diving or squatting from decceleration/acceleration.
Basically, I will not have the time or money to keep going to track events every month. I might go every 3-4 months. My attitude as far as modding my Z tends to be a fire-and-forget style. My cars tend to stay the way they are for quite long periods of time as far as parts are concerned. My goal is just to make the car feel better for my own piece of mind and to see a cause and affect for my own entertainment. I won't be entering competitions or anything of the sort.
I guess I should look into the Koni Yellows with some sort of springs or perhaps the TrueChoice Phase 2 system.
I know this sounds kind of nebulous but based on my current below-mediocre set-up (mostly for street driving which I barely do in the first place as my car sits at my parent's for weeks on end) and my goals, do you think the Koni Yellows and some springs of the Phase 2 seem like a good bet?
I know this question is quite nebulous but do you think the Koni Yellows and some springs or the Phase 2 are the ways to go?
Honestly bro the only difference will be cost, If you have the cash get the Phase 2s, if you are a little bit strapped grab the Yellows and some springs. each setup though will get you where you need to go.
Well, the good news, I guess, is that I have a pretty modest or basic baseline.
All I have is: Tein S Techs, factory struts from 2004, Hotchkis front and rear adjustable sway bars.
Aside from the sway bars, I think anything I get will be a pretty big improvement as far as the car's stability and manerisms entering, going through and exiting turns as well as any diving or squatting from decceleration/acceleration.
Basically, I will not have the time or money to keep going to track events every month. I might go every 3-4 months. My attitude as far as modding my Z tends to be a fire-and-forget style. My cars tend to stay the way they are for quite long periods of time as far as parts are concerned. My goal is just to make the car feel better for my own piece of mind and to see a cause and affect for my own entertainment. I won't be entering competitions or anything of the sort.
I guess I should look into the Koni Yellows with some sort of springs or perhaps the TrueChoice Phase 2 system.
I know this sounds kind of nebulous but based on my current below-mediocre set-up (mostly for street driving which I barely do in the first place as my car sits at my parent's for weeks on end) and my goals, do you think the Koni Yellows and some springs of the Phase 2 seem like a good bet?
I know this question is quite nebulous but do you think the Koni Yellows and some springs or the Phase 2 are the ways to go?
All I have is: Tein S Techs, factory struts from 2004, Hotchkis front and rear adjustable sway bars.
Aside from the sway bars, I think anything I get will be a pretty big improvement as far as the car's stability and manerisms entering, going through and exiting turns as well as any diving or squatting from decceleration/acceleration.
Basically, I will not have the time or money to keep going to track events every month. I might go every 3-4 months. My attitude as far as modding my Z tends to be a fire-and-forget style. My cars tend to stay the way they are for quite long periods of time as far as parts are concerned. My goal is just to make the car feel better for my own piece of mind and to see a cause and affect for my own entertainment. I won't be entering competitions or anything of the sort.
I guess I should look into the Koni Yellows with some sort of springs or perhaps the TrueChoice Phase 2 system.
I know this sounds kind of nebulous but based on my current below-mediocre set-up (mostly for street driving which I barely do in the first place as my car sits at my parent's for weeks on end) and my goals, do you think the Koni Yellows and some springs of the Phase 2 seem like a good bet?
I know this question is quite nebulous but do you think the Koni Yellows and some springs or the Phase 2 are the ways to go?
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All I have is: Tein S Techs, factory struts from 2004, Hotchkis front and rear adjustable sway bars.
My attitude as far as modding my Z tends to be a fire-and-forget style.
I know this question is quite nebulous but do you think the Koni Yellows and some springs or the Phase 2 are the ways to go?
Option 1 (just throwing this out there)
If you don't mind losing the drop, then yellows and any combination of OEM original, revised, or nismo springs will give you a few cheap rate options to choose from. This would be your cheapest option, OEM's show up in the marketplace often. Gets you in under $1K
Option 2
S Tech's are some of the higher rate off the shelf springs out there, albeit the fronts are progressive. Note that many of the off the shelf options are not really that different than OEM in rates.
RsR springs, if you can find them, are similar but the fronts are linear.
So if you are happy with this rate and drop, then you can just buy some yellow's and call it a day.
By adding the adjustability of the yellows will give you a bit more to work with.
This also gets you in under $1K
Option 3
The only high rate OEM fit springs I'm aware of are Nismo T2's (there may be others I'm not aware of, the track junkies on this site would know). This will require revalving or finding some TcKlines. Commits you to a 1in drop. I would guess the price to do this would be inbetween option 2 and Phase II. Terrasmak can probably better comment here as he has experience and I'd also be curious to hear what damper he runs.
Option 4
The benefit of the phase II, is you can pick your rates, plus/minus have the yellows valved to them, and you can swap to other springs later as you see fit. The ready availability of koni servicing and spring change/replacements is a plus. If I remember correctly truechoice makes a perch for the rear to use universal springs (or buck up for SPL mid links)
Keep in mind many off the shelf coilovers can achieve this as well, however the quality and revalving/spring changing ability greatly varies by manufacturer. There are some junk coilovers out there.
Add-on's to consider.
Camber/Toe adjustment - allows a track-day alignment.
To try and answer your last question:
Your set it and forget it comment makes me think option #2 - just get yellows (+/- RsR's), use the savings for camber/toe adjustment (something easy like evo or spl arms with shims to go back and forth to street easy). Best bang for buck IMO.
You can move to option 3 or 4 after, by sending your konis in.
Hope this is helping and not adding more confusion.
pp
Last edited by palepony; Jun 7, 2013 at 04:19 PM.
Option 3
The only high rate OEM fit springs I'm aware of are Nismo T2's (there may be others I'm not aware of, the track junkies on this site would know). This will require revalving or finding some TcKlines. Commits you to a 1in drop. I would guess the price to do this would be inbetween option 2 and Phase II. Terrasmak can probably better comment here as he has experience and I'd also be curious to hear what damper he runs.
The only high rate OEM fit springs I'm aware of are Nismo T2's (there may be others I'm not aware of, the track junkies on this site would know). This will require revalving or finding some TcKlines. Commits you to a 1in drop. I would guess the price to do this would be inbetween option 2 and Phase II. Terrasmak can probably better comment here as he has experience and I'd also be curious to hear what damper he runs.
The reason i recomend the Phase 2 over the other combo's you mention with drop springs is, the spring rates suck. I want to talk to Swift about having springs made for the Z , good springs , track style springs. Probably 600 to 700lb front and rear with a 3/4 inch drop. I think they would sell well.
I run Moton clubsport dampers on my car.
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terrasmak
while no doubt, phase II is the better choice on that component set alone.
blu is just getting started, wonder if he needs to progress through and further test various components - add in alignment option. Only he can decide.
Will await his input to further advise.
Agree on the swift spring comment - yes, that would make guys that are entering the market for the purpose happy - but not a big enough market to make it worth their while I suspect.
pp
while no doubt, phase II is the better choice on that component set alone.
blu is just getting started, wonder if he needs to progress through and further test various components - add in alignment option. Only he can decide.
Will await his input to further advise.
Agree on the swift spring comment - yes, that would make guys that are entering the market for the purpose happy - but not a big enough market to make it worth their while I suspect.
pp
Last edited by palepony; Jun 7, 2013 at 08:49 PM.
Combined with a set of Koni dampers, it would be a far superiour system than any option up to around the $2500 range. Even work great for the street guys.
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Honestly Terra, I have to agree with Pale, He is just getting started and if he got the regular system first with just the Koni yellows and the Oem springs or custom springs, he could learn the car a little bit better, and than when its time to make adjustments, he can send in his yellows and have the revalved and upgraded, I feel like that would be a good path for him to learn how to tune his suspension as well from the ground up. Blu are you mechanically inclined?
The swift springs and koni dampers would be a great system, but only for someone who knows what to properly do with it, but if Blu is mechanically inclined, I dont see why he cant have the phase 2 dampers, that would give him a great base point for building his suspension and he can learn his car with the best setup possible.
Reading thru Blus usage of the car and his objective, to be cost friendly he can just get the Yellows and some good springs, he only drives the car on the weekends, and he wont be doing many track days, it would be a waste to buy that system now. IF he starts doing more track days he has the option to upgrade his Konis. There are a lot of possibilities for him
The swift springs and koni dampers would be a great system, but only for someone who knows what to properly do with it, but if Blu is mechanically inclined, I dont see why he cant have the phase 2 dampers, that would give him a great base point for building his suspension and he can learn his car with the best setup possible.
Reading thru Blus usage of the car and his objective, to be cost friendly he can just get the Yellows and some good springs, he only drives the car on the weekends, and he wont be doing many track days, it would be a waste to buy that system now. IF he starts doing more track days he has the option to upgrade his Konis. There are a lot of possibilities for him
Last edited by stuartc323; Jun 8, 2013 at 10:44 AM.
Guys, thank you so much for all of this info. Noob question. Palepony mentioned having some Koni Yellows revalved to the Phase 2s. Are the Phase 2's literally just springs? I could've sworn aftern looking at the online catalog, it was a more complete system, springs, struts etc.
Honestly Terra, I have to agree with Pale, He is just getting started and if he got the regular system first with just the Koni yellows and the Oem springs or custom springs, he could learn the car a little bit better, and than when its time to make adjustments, he can send in his yellows and have the revalved and upgraded, I feel like that would be a good path for him to learn how to tune his suspension as well from the ground up. Blu are you mechanically inclined?
The swift springs and koni dampers would be a great system, but only for someone who knows what to properly do with it, but if Blu is mechanically inclined, I dont see why he cant have the phase 2 dampers, that would give him a great base point for building his suspension and he can learn his car with the best setup possible.
Reading thru Blus usage of the car and his objective, to be cost friendly he can just get the Yellows and some good springs, he only drives the car on the weekends, and he wont be doing many track days, it would be a waste to buy that system now. IF he starts doing more track days he has the option to upgrade his Konis. There are a lot of possibilities for him
The swift springs and koni dampers would be a great system, but only for someone who knows what to properly do with it, but if Blu is mechanically inclined, I dont see why he cant have the phase 2 dampers, that would give him a great base point for building his suspension and he can learn his car with the best setup possible.
Reading thru Blus usage of the car and his objective, to be cost friendly he can just get the Yellows and some good springs, he only drives the car on the weekends, and he wont be doing many track days, it would be a waste to buy that system now. IF he starts doing more track days he has the option to upgrade his Konis. There are a lot of possibilities for him
I would have to say no in the mechanically inclined part. I am very good with theories and how things work and finding appropriate parts to achieve that objective but as far as actually doing the work or tuning the settings myself, no.
You last paragraph pretty-much sums up what I need and is comforting as I am back in the fog of war trying to figure out which way to go again, lol (but its fun though). I guess I have to compare the cost differences but it does seem like some Yellows with better springs seems to be the way. As always, I am still open to suggestions though I believe you guys have done a fantastic job of researching different alternatives.
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Guys, thank you so much for all of this info. Noob question. Palepony mentioned having some Koni Yellows revalved to the Phase 2s. Are the Phase 2's literally just springs? I could've sworn aftern looking at the online catalog, it was a more complete system, springs, struts etc.
phase 2 - two choices
- stock valved yellows with new spring mounts and custom springs
- revalved yellows with new spring mounts and custom springs
the price difference is in the original post
given the price looks to be around $1800 I suspect all phase two are revalved these days.
so to answer your question - phase two comes with yellows, revalved, and new mounting for the custom springs.
What we were getting at is if you chose to just buy unaltered koni yellows and use a set of OEM mounting point springs (your S-Tech's for example - like the phase 1), and changed your mind down the road, you could send your koni's into truechoice to get altered into a phase two configuration.
hope that clarifies
pp
Last edited by palepony; Jun 10, 2013 at 08:50 AM.
Guys, thank you so much for all of this info. Noob question. Palepony mentioned having some Koni Yellows revalved to the Phase 2s. Are the Phase 2's literally just springs? I could've sworn aftern looking at the online catalog, it was a more complete system, springs, struts etc.
Best regards,
ZROCM