DavesZ#3

iTrader: (26)

The Hotchkis, like all others, comes with both front and rear bars. I only replaced the front because that is what is allowed in the stock autocross class.

VIZAGE

iTrader: (20)

Are they worth it? Does a cat have climbing gear?

Z1 Performance

iTrader: (564)

absolutely a worthwhile mod

just be careful on which combo you run in terms of exhaust clearance - most will fit all (NISMO, Cusco, Hotchkis fit all exhausts that I've ever seen). Progress has awesome bars (great value) but they do not clear every exhaust (several true duals have issues you can search and read about)

One of our Z's runs Progress, the other runs Cusco - both work great

sentry65

iTrader: (11)

the sway bar stiffness needs to work in conjunction with the stiffness of the spring stiffness.

If you go too stiff with swaybars (or springs for that matter) you can get bump steer where going over the slightest bump will actually lift a tire up away from the ground, sometimes even completely off the ground and that's bad for cornering traction and can even cause you to lose control and go off the road if you were driving through a turn at the absolute limit

My front spring rates are 10 lbs and rear is 8. I ended up switching my front sway bar setting from medium, to the soft setting to counter the bump steer I was getting, not to mention understeer. It has a little more confidence now

If you're racing on a track with perfectly smooth/flat tarmac then bumpsteer isn't as much of an issue

z-u-later

iTrader: (43)

I have the adjustable PROGRESS TECH sway bars and absolutely love them, and it cost less than other after-market sway bars. It clears my INJEN True Dual exhaust system. Combine any after-market sway bars with the GT SPEC bars and your Z will be as tight as you'll ever feel on corners & curves. I have almost no body roll on my Z.

SpoilsofWar

iTrader: (39)

I've got this set up, the progress sways and the gt spec braces, and it does indeed rule.

lbz

iTrader: (14)

I bought the Stillen sways. Install was easy using hand tools and jack stands. BIG difference in the handling, much tighter around the turns.

MoodDude

If your goal is to reduce body roll - than yes aftermarket sway bars will get it.

Just know that sway bars (along with other suspension parts) determine the rate at which wieght is transfered.

It sounds like you are planning on doing a few track days, if you are looking for performance - than tires are the #1 mod you can do to the car. The #2 mod is holding the driver firmly in place. These will shave seconds off your time, where as a sway bar will is more like 1/10 of a second (in relative terms).

Pirelli4906

I am looking into sway bars myself and see Do-Luck sway bars, They are pricey, but if they are among the top brands, I don't mind spending the money, does ANYONE have any more info on the quality of Do-Luck. They can be found here:

http://www.bulletproofautomotive.com/do-luck-anti-sway-bars.html

I'm interested in the BEST. I don't care about comfort, just performance.

MicVelo

Never heard of Do-Luck but at that price, they'd better be gold plated. $850?!? Whew!

Top brands - performance wise:

Eibach - Cusco - Hotchkis - Stillen - Nismo

Range in price $300-600 or so.

Is one better than another? Maybe, but the differences are negligible. They are all good products. And yeah, you'll hear the stories about how "brand X broke when I used them" or "brand Y sucks because.... 'name-your-problem'...." blah blah blah. But these are all good and I'd be more inclined to believe that bars break because they are installed improperly or someone got a little too aggressive with their end link attachments...

What you DO need to do is decide is how you are setting up your car overall. Need adjustability for dialing in over/understeer? Satisfied with close to neutral steer? Will you actually adjust them once you have them set? All questions you need to ask yourself and answer honestly.

Personally, I run Hotchkis adjustables (4-way front/3-way rear) and have them biased for slight oversteer. Combine that with my adjustable Koni's, I have all the adjustment *I* need for how I drive the car.

Bottom line, you really can't go wrong with any of these and bars ARE the best bang for your suspension buck offering true improvement in handling - even moreso than shocks and springs on the Z33.

Mic

stogey420time

iTrader: (1)

^ I can't help but to notice your sig:
Z33, Z33 Nismo, Z34 Nismo, Volvo S60R

Nice stable collection br0!

terrasmak

iTrader: (8)

Best is an odd term for sways, an aftermarket bar is just an aftermarket bar, the vast majority are adjustable. How they are adjusted to work with your springs and tires are what will make a bar the best.

I suggest adjustable, along with a well designed suspension package and most important is someone who really knows how to properly set the suspension up.

MicVelo

Thanks, stogey! Appreciate it.

Have friends who think I'm a little obsessed.

"Yes, but it's a good obsession."

For what I paid for my Z33s and the brick (Volvo), I could have had ONE 'Vette or Porsche but naaahhhhhhh....

Mic

MicVelo

^^ Word.

08350ZED

Hi,
I just picked up my first Z, an 08 350. I can honestly say that of the cars I've owned, the Z is the best handling and most neutral feeling from the factory. Normally my first go-to mod is a quality spring/strut combo or a quality coilover. I had kwv3's on my last subaru and loved them, but honestly, the Z isn't in dire need of suspension mods like the subaru was.

Im rambling so I'll cut to the chase. I think my first suspension mod is going to be the hotchkis sways and like you, I'm looking for a slight oversteer bias. It seems like many people are running med in front and soft to med if rear. You seem to know your stuff though.. what holes are you running on your sways? I'll keep in mind that you also have the adjustable koni's so mine won't react just like yours, but I'm just looking for a good starting point.

Thanks for the advice, and like one of the others said, nice stable!

MicVelo

Thanks! I'm a Z-NUT from waaaaay back. Went 30 years without one so I'm now making up for the lost time. Laff!

You're right. The Z is one of the most natural handling cars out there right out of the box. Drove mine for a year (learning it - and re-learning all of the driving skills I haden't used for "recreational driving" - in all types of conditions) before I found anything I wanted to do to it.

A good thread for the "sane" set-ups that work well for the majority of Z owners can be found here. <===Linked, not an embedded ad.

But in a nutshell, the Hotchkis bars are levered adjustable - 4 hole adjustment up front, 3 out back. My original set up (and it continues to this day despite a shock change) was softest setting up front (hole #1) - which is still some 22% stiffer than stock bar - and hole #2 rear for slightly higher roll stiffness.

BTW, you mention that a lot of people are running "medium front, soft-medium rear".... On the Z33 chassis, that's probably fine with the car reasonably close to neutral steer already. But, it's counter to what chassis tuners do with regard to front-rear roll stiffness....

IN GENERAL*:

Increase OVERSTEER (decrease understeer): Thicker/Stiffer on REAR BAR
Increase UNDERSTEER (decrease oversteer): Thick/Stiffer FRONT BAR

* Note: Yes yes, I know, it depends on the car and the application to which it is being tuned... which is why I said "IN GENERAL". Keep the flames down folks.

This, along with my original Bilstein/Eibach ProKit setup was perfect. Car turned in really sharp (I'm VERY big on laser like steering reflexes) and had enough give/breakaway on the rear to invoke a little tail out oversteer WHEN NEEDED.

I switched shocks to Koni adjustables as an "experiment" and installed the Bilsteins on my son's '06. (Long story... I think it's in that thread I ref'd above.)

Right now, my current "project" is taking out rebound from the shocks as it is much too stiff for "my" roads. I took out a half turn of rebound just this morning and it seems to be much better and closer to how I like it. It was a slight bit more tail happy than I care to run.... on public roads. Heh heh. I could also add camber (though technically it's "take out" camber since it's going negative) in the back but I'm pretty happy with -1-deg overall).

Anyhow, before I put anyone to sleep.... I'll just say that sway bars are the BEST and should be the FIRST suspension mod on any car. But it's not as sexy (meaning "visible") as "I'm gonna slam my car!"

Oh, and congrats on the new car!

Mic

terrasmak

iTrader: (8)

A lot of good points were mentioned above but ........ The car really needs to be driven at 10/10 to tune the suspension. A car that is set neutral for street use/aggressive canyon will typically be horrible at the full limit. You will never really know this unless you drive it all the full limit in its different stages and compare data ( normally G's and lap times )

My car started out on the track done stock , upgraded to sways ran a couple events playing with the softer setting , then I listened to Scott Bush (relentless auto sport ) and set to full stiff front and rear ( Hotchkiss) The car was 4 seconds slower in a almost 3 minute course , almost undrivable at the limit. As many would say, it felt like a race car daily driving on the streets. Back to different settings and lap times improved once again. Next was coilovers (BC) it took many events to see a slight improvement over stock , then added front camber ( helped a lot) then quality coilovers etc etc. My car went thru many stages and is constantly improving. Just this last weekend I swapped to stiffer front springs , dropped the front sway from hole 2/3 stagger to hole to hole 2 for a nice improvement with my current aero package.

Nothing in suspension is definite, driver input dictates a lot of the reaction (btw the Z understeers like a pig from the factory ) , little changes arnt as noticeable for street driving but can be huge when pushing the car for all it has.

Last thing, I run hotchkiss because of the published rates, I know how much I'm adding with equal adjustments. I found a good starting point to be hole 2 front (one up from full soft) and hole 1 (full soft rear ) this combo add a bit more rear stiffness, about 20% and a little stiffer overall.

03threefiftyz

iTrader: (25)

I hate having a sway bar out back...

MicVelo

I do agree with your commentary about tuning to "full potential" or 10/10ths, terrasmak, but I'd also be the first one to make the point that amongst the majority of drivers on this (and every forum other than the dedicated racer forums), driving 10/10ths really isn't possible on public roads. And to that point, we all know that setting up a car for street AND/OR track is a set of compromises.

Had another member recently ask me (in PM) if I used scales to set up my suspension. I laughed heartily saying "I wish I had that at my disposal but corner weighting just isn't in the cards for me."

Given all that, I contend that there is a "good compromise setup" that is suitable for day to day driving with, shall we say, "spirited intentions".

And with all due respect, I (as in first person, me, myself... heh heh) actually have a fairly sensitive set of receptors (in my butt? hands?) when I'm in my cars. I "felt" the rear suspension go off camber (thinking it was an air pressure problem) which was confirmed on a routine alignment check and I "felt" the need for a reduction in rebound on my shock setup so maybe I'm weird but I can make adjustments to my suspension that are noticeable on public roads. NOT MUCH, I agree, but enough for my comfort.

So, I'm either sensitive or I'm driving much too fast in the mountains. Laff!

Regardless, I believe that we agree for the most part that if "you're not building for car performance to exceed the driver's skill (or at least challenges it), it ain't worth it."

MicVelo

Again, I point out the generality of my earlier statement. And the acknowledgement that the "proper set up" for one discipline (say, pylon runner) may NOT be ideal for another (say, technical road course).

Nor is the hot set-up on a Z33 the same as say, a BRZ or STI or..... Maybe I OUGHT to remove my rear bar for kicks and see what's what out there.

Uhhhhhh, nawwwwwww.....

Mic