I've been searching and learning about brakes on the boards but have some questions for the group before I pull the trigger on the purchase...

I'm looking to pickup a BBK in the near future and have been looking at the Brembo/Rotora/StopTech kits. I'm pretty much sold on the StopTech kit at this point so its really more a question of what to get.

I've got a 2004.5 Enthusiast 350Z with non-brembo OEM brakes (upgraded the pads, rotors, fluid). I've got about 7-8 track days under my belt and I'm finally hitting the limit where I just can't get any more out of the car without having brake fade issues after a couple laps. I plan to do about 6-8 track events per year and would like to start attending some larger tracks (Roebling, Road Atlanta, etc) but the fade issue has been holding me back from really doing some more advanced tracks for fear of going into a corner with/near a cement wall and poor brakes (been doing TGP quite a bit which has no walls).

Here's the questions:

1) I've been looking at the 13" kits for the front then keeping the stock rears (not because I want to, but because I've only got about $2500 to spend). I noticed a post mentioning the brake balance on the newer StopTech kits were much more biased towards the front.

https://my350z.com/forum/showthread....light=stoptech

Any issues with using the 06-08 13" kit up front then replacing the rear calipers with an 06-08 rear caliper on my 04? Is it worth the braking difference or should I just reuse the 04 rears with the appropriate sized StopTech 03-05 fronts? Anyone with this setup please weigh in. My assumption, and I could be wrong, is that more bias = more stopping strength = shorter distance. Heat should be negligiable since the size and material of the caliper is a constant except for the 06-08 rears since they are slightly larger - not sure on if there is a pot differnce between the 03-05 and 06-08 rears.

2) I'm in debate on the size of the 13" vs the 14". There was a comparison done not too long ago, I think everyone has read that review by now so I won't link it, between the different sized kits and the 14" kits were about 50-80 degrees cooler than the 13" kit. I haven't done my planned brake duct frankenstein adaptation to the front yet so the question is will the 13" cut it or is it better to go with the 14"? Any track guru's that can share experiences from larger tracks please do. Along the same lines, if I go with a 14" is there a bias issue I need to think about since I can't afford to do the rears as well and would have to leave those as non-brembo OEM's.

3) Generally, everyone says get a BBK over the OEM brembo's. If I could pick up a used set of OEM brembo's for $2k, which is pretty easy to do, does it make sense from a performance standpoint to get larger calipers on all 4 wheels or to just upgrade the fronts with the StopTech BBK? My understanding is the brake bias on the Z is something like 85%/15% so my deductive reasoning says go with the 13"/14" StopTech kit for the front and then keep the OEM non-brembo rears but I've been wrong before.

Thanks all for any insight.

 

Pretty much summed it up here. Getting a front bbk that increases the bias too much w/o getting a rear bbk = waste of time IMHO.

 

Agree - that's what lead me to question is it worth the extra rear caliper upgrade from the 04 caliper to 06-08 OEM brakes to get a better stopping distance (assuming bias = strength = stopping distance)/fade resistant rear.

 

Depends on what your goals are for your BBK setup. The stopping power of an 06-08stoptech+06-08OEM rear compared to a 03-05stoptech+03-05OEM rears should be negligible. This is because stoptech designs their setups to keep OEM brake bias. The advantage of the 06-08 setup is in the larger rear rotor that will have a higher heat capacity and will thus have less fade when pushed to the limits such as at the track. For street use, you'll probably never see any advantage.

 

Actually the biggest advantage of the larger rear rotor is the greater torque arm force ie.. more brake force.

As far as which rear setup to get. Depends on which front you get. I will ASSUME that if the stoptech kit is larger than the oem 06, then you should get the biggest one available to help get the bias back in track. Especially when Stoptech themselves recommended the 06 setup.

Basictly anything better in the rear is better than nothing. But looks like as far as oem rear upgrades go, the 06 might be the best option. Unless maybe the HR powered G brakes are even larger and will fit.

 

Thanks for the input Jeff. I'll need to do some more searching on the rears it sounds like. Anyone with more comments fireaway .

 

I beleive you are misinterpreting the quote above.
What stoptech meant is that pre 06' BBK is not ideal for 06' and later model Zs and vice-versa. The brake rotor diameter in the front changed in 06 as well as the caliper.

If you get a front only BBK that was designed for the model year Z you have, your brake bias will be balanced.

The newer kits have different piston sizes to keep them balanced based on the new rotor/caliper size.

HTH

 

Forgot to mention, if you track your car a lot or plan to, get the 13" kit.

The Z is known for pad knockback and the larger the diameter of the rotor, the more knockback you'll get. Most race teams run 13" kits so if it's good enough for them, it should be for us.
The other advantage of the 13" kit is that you can fit 17" wheels.

I know this because I have a 4 wheel 14" stoptech and I'm stuck with 18's and tires are over $100 less in 17". If I had to do it again, I would go with the 13" kit.

Things to keep in mind.

 

This is an "advantage" but since the OEM setup can already easily lock up the brakes, more brake torque isn't necessary IMO. The greater heat capacity of the larger rotor is more of an advantage than the added brake torque IMO

 

Stick with the kit designed for your model year for the best overall performance. If you go with an 06+ kit with the larger pistons, your pedal feel will suffer and ABS/VDC systems may not work properly. For the rear brakes, just go with a higher temperature track pad like Hawk Blue for your track day or even an OE rear Brembo setup. The main issue with the standard 350Z rear brakes is the lack of good pad selsction and the small size of the pads. The rotor size is actually not too bad and its fairly lightweight.

 

But that doesnt' address the bias. Which the larger rotor and or piston calipers do.

I don't have much experience with tracked Zs but I thought the rears didn't get that heated vs the fronts. Therefore more rear heat capacity isn't the driving force for bigger rears. IMHO regaining proper bias > slightly better heat capacity.

 

Why would the bias be screwed up? 06-08 Stoptech Front+06-08 OEM larger rear has the same bias as the 03-05 stoptech front+03-05 OEM smaller rear.

 

If that's the case then he doesn't need a rear bbk.

But the post above states the newer kits are more front biased than ideal. So if he goes to a newer kit, what does he do?

 

Get the newer rear brakes to balance the bias. Thats why I clearly stated which stoptech kit should be used with which rear setup. I never advocated the use of the 06-08 stoptech setup with the 03-05 rear brake setup.

 

But that's what it looks like he wants to do. Or at least a front bbk from stoptech and some type of oem rear bbk to cut costs. So IMHO, the biggest advantage for this particular application would be the bias correction. IMHO.

What he should do is probably either buy a full front/rear setup or go with a full oem Brembo. The brembos are almost 13" anyway and he could get the correct sized rears with it. To gain some performance, upgrade the pads and opt for some 2pc rotors. Most 2pc units feature better performance (and weight) vs their 1 pc counterparts

 

Please stop bickering guys, youre only adding confusion. The 06+ OE brakes have more brake torque than the 03-5 brakes, Therefore, the 06+ BBKs we offer do as well. If you put the 06+ front BBK on an 03-05 car (which you should not do) you will have a more front biased setup than is ideal. The only way to rectify this would be to install the the stock 06+ rear brakes, or our BBK for the 06+ cars but you would then have a softer pedal and possible ABS issues since the master cylinder and ABS systems of the 03-05 cars are not designed around the higher torque numbers.

The 03-05 kits are properly sized to be comaptible with the stock rear brakes with no modifications.

 

Thanks all for the replies. Sounds like the 13" kit for the 03-05 models on the front and stick with the oem rears is the way to go - assuming I can find a pad that works well, if not go OEM Brembo for the rear.

 

Remember the heat sink capacity of a rotor is a function of it's weight [mass] not its size [diameter]. Thicker rotors can come from more metal or more air space between.

A 10% heavier rotor will operate at 10% colder temperature rise for identical stops.

 

Thanks for the order. The kit, and the nasty track pads are on the way.

 

Ok, so I finally made the decision to buy a BBK (03-05 Stoptech 332mm ST-40) for my 03 Non-Brembo Enthusiast 350Z. After purchasing the kit I realized that I had upgraded the rear brakes to the 06 OEM Non-Brembo, thinking the larger rotors would be a good upgrade. So far they've been great, I haven't experienced any problems with the setup.

I realized that there may be incompatibility issues, freaked out and am in the process of exchanging the 03-05 ST BBK for an 06+ ST BBK. Now I realize that, from reading this thread, this setup will probably have issues with the ABS (don't have VDC so np w/ that) or soft pedal, even though I will have the 06+ ST BBK w/ the 06+ OEM brakes.

I was hoping that the setup would be compatible based on this post https://my350z.com/forum/showpost.ph...19&postcount=5 but that may not be the full story as StopTechErik says in this post https://my350z.com/forum/showpost.ph...4&postcount=10.

Since I plan to track this setup quite a bit, on R Compounds and Raybestos ST43 pads, what do I need to do to make this setup work? Would changing the master cylinder help (AFAIK, they are the same for 03-06)?

I really hope I dont have to sell the BBK, that may be what I end up doing....has anyone else had this issue?

Thanks